[cgk]

But it doesn't sell, how do you have a future with a device line that doesn't sell and has likely already peaked in sales?

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[belfastdispatcher]

Where have i argued otherwise?!?!?!

I only asked that you back up your claims, I never made any of my own, you've assumed that I'm against the fact that BB7 is selling more when we discussed this at length in another thread where you ignored several points...

Where we disagree is why BB10 is selling less, you think it's because it's not legacy, when you've been shown how other factors are more of a reason.. and you think that a new legacy phone will fix all of Blackberry's problems they released one last year and the stories still the same

Legacy sales are falling (selling multi millions to selling millions isn't anything to be excited about, it's like Nokia excited that they sell so many dumb phones when there was a time they sold so many more)

Developer support for legacy is falling (you've seen the graph)

BB10 isn't perfect, but it's BlackBerry's future.. thats common sense..

TechCraze C0008DDD1

Again, I recommend you read the last Quarter earnings report, not only you'll find the figures you're looking for but you'll also realise BB10 sale figures are also falling, only 1.6 millions were BB10.
Down from over 2 millions previous quarter.


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[tinochiko]

But it doesn't sell, how do you have a future with a device line that doesn't sell and has likely already peaked in sales?

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How many people have been satisfied with their BB10 device?

By breaking down the reasons it's not selling and working on those areas.. hence Jakarta and the new employees that Chen has hired.. the reason it isn't selling is less to do with people not wanting it and more with it having the blackberry name and thus people not trusting it. And not willing to try it.. which is something that can be changed unlike the broken house of legacy devices

That's more of a future than a device that has already peaked in sales and is almost at the bottom of its life cycle, that mos t people only get because it's cheap.. if price is your USP what happens when someone undercuts you?

For the final time, this isn't a BB10 vs legacy Thread, start your own if that's what you wish to do, I suggest you review why is 07 outselling BB10 thread where it was discussed at length...




TechCraze C0008DDD1

[belfastdispatcher]

I'm confused, you start a thread about BB being No 3 in UK which is only thanks to BB7 but you only want to discuss about BB10 which plays a minuscule part in it? That doesn't make much sense.


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[cgk]

For the final time, this isn't a BB10 vs legacy Thread



TechCraze C0008DDD1

Even within the context of the thread, the discussion is "BB is third in ownership due to a lagging ownership metric and high sales of legacy devices but that cannot persist because legacy sales are dropping off and BB10 sales never ramped to start with".

[afl777]

After a year I would have thought that BB10 would have sold more. But of course it won't ....because 90% of people only know about legacy devices, and know that they either love them or would never give them up, or that they freeze and reboot and no Blackberry will ever darken their door again. Most really don't understand that BB10 is totally differnet and it even has better specs than a lot of other phones on the market. Users go into phone shops to replace their freezing old 8520 and won't even look at the BB10 stand cos they don't want another phone that freezes....as they think it will. Sales people don't push BB as they push Samsung, Apple etc.

And I think this is down to lack of advertising. Every evening there is a mobile ad on TV, a close up of the phone, showing features, pointing out what it will do.

Around the launch of BB10 last year Blackberry took too much notice of the no doubt expensive marketing company that did their TV ad and too much emphasis on 'keep moving'....which to most of the public meant nothing. The ad only had a couple of quick glimpses of the phone features....with most of the ad concerned with random people skipping from scene to scene. The ads didn't show off the phones properly.

And so we are left with no money in the budget to advertise, last years advertising opportunity wasted, and most only knowing legacy.

When Blackberry post a feature post on their page on FB the comments come in thick and fast.....even though it is a BB10 post...."rubbish phones, they always freeze" etc....the poster not being even aware that BB10 has 16GB of memory against legacy with at most 100mbs free....except for the Bold before anyone jumps in to correct me.

So, if Blackberry want to keep going in the handset market, if tbey want BB10 to succeed, tbey need to advertise....and not overly expensise "too clever". ads like last time, but close ups on screen on the phone, show the features, prime time TV.

Poeople see and people want....

[greenberry666]

BD BlackBerry have their own display area in cpw shops only.

There is no doubt that most of the figure is made up of legacy devices picked up for cheap. In the UK BlackBerry phones were perceived as a cheap option. That's what drove their popularity. The big mistake was not engaging with this situation and providing cheap BB10 devices.

But, having said that, the OP does not claim that the figures are BB10 specific.

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[cgk]

And I think this is down to lack of advertising. Every evening there is a mobile ad on TV, a close up of the phone, showing features, pointing out what it will do.

That is a bit of a revisionist narrative similar to the one we saw around the launch of WebOS - in the UK, the Z10 had a lot spent on its advertising plus 'hero' POS displays, which you only see when the maker is spending a lot with the carriers in terms of co-funded marketing. The Q10 also had hero stands. This declined to... nothing for the Z30.

You need billions to be competitive in the consumer mobile space and I *think* that because BBRY didn't have access to this sort of money, they took a gamble of all or nothing in terms of marketing spend with the Z10 and if that had sold well, it would have financed the marketing for the next devices - when it was a sales disaster, this results in a downward spiral which culminated in the non-launch of the z30.


This is why the idea of another BB10 device wining over the consumer market* makes no sense to me - regardless of the merits of the device, where's the cash coming from to competiting with the marketing budgets of Samsung, Apple et al.?



* Enterprise is a different conversation.

[mrabody]

Here in the UK you can find the Legacy devices for sale in supermarkets. They're pitched at the low end of the market price-wise amongst various android handsets. You only see BB10 devices in the Phone shops where they're competing with the likes of iPhones, Samsung Galaxies and other high-end smart phones. Therefore the Legacy devices get a lot more retail exposure in a much less competitive environment. Hence they still sell. I still see lots of legacy BB devices in use, but not many BB10. If Blackberry is smart they won't restrict the Jakarta to developing countries but will sell it in markets like the UK where they can get it into the big supermarkets, at a very competitive price and appeal to young people, those without a lot of disposable income, and people looking for a second "backup" phone.

[afl777]

Its a certain fact that if users don't understand what BB10 is all about, and only judge on legacy then BB10 will get nowhere in the public matket.

[BBUK14]

BlackBerry 10 is selling quite well in London at the moment. I'm seeing a huge increase in BlackBerry 10 phones in the wild now. I think we all need to relax. BlackBerry is not dead, and the next line of phones are going to sell much better.

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[chopachain]

UK smartphone ownership sees Android and iPhone on par | T3

5% more ownership that windows phone! More needs to be done in the UK this year though only 59% of people with smartphones

You can get the full report here : Ipsos MORI | Publication | Ipsos MediaCT Tech Tracker Q4 2013

TechCraze C0008DDD1

Thanks for that good news. BlackBerry is not losing. Losing is coming fourth. Some people should google BGR and bookmark it so they don't get lost.

[cgk]

Thanks for that good news. BlackBerry is not losing. Losing is coming fourth. Some people should google BGR and bookmark it so they don't get lost.

Actually 'losing' is not making money.

[darkehawke]

Yes you do to make the claims you're making, and thus thread isn't about how many BB10 phones are sold. Or BB7 it's about how many people have a blackberry device in the UK, if you want to discuss BB10 vs BB7 after the previous thread was shut down, start another.. thanks

TechCraze C0008DDD1

He is right . look around the UK and the majority of blackberry devices you will see will be a curve.

However I strongly believe that is due to pricing

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!

[garnok]

its based by smartphone ownership, even if the Smarthphone owner still using 5 years old BB phone / android / iPhone they still count as 1 userbase/ownership

if you want to see the growth you have to see marketshare, from newest kantar report Windows phone marketshare are almost 3 times BB marketshare in great britain.

http://cdn.ndtv.com/tech/images/Kantar-smartphone-OS-market-share-Q4-2013.png

Great britain only data :
http://uk.kantar.com/tech/mobile/270...e-year-on-top/

so if you combine your source report + kantar report actually it is a bad news for BB. they are losing their userbase very fast , and their marketshare are behind WP8, ios, android with a large margin...if this situation still happen, WP8 in the end will beat BB in userbase number and marketshare number

[Skyforever]

Actually 'losing' is not making money.

Actually BlackBerry is making money in the enterprise section, which is where BlackBerry is focused mostly at the moment. Granted the sales of phones has been slow, but each time we hear something new about BB10 the Operating System just keeps getting better. Awesome really. Even BGR has written something positive about BB10. Go figure. The more people begin to see or read positive articles about BB10, the more people may start thinking maybe BlackBerry has something other then the hype (Apple/Samsung) has been spewing out and are offering. Something that is good a good alternative worthy of their money. Surely positive articles mean something to some people (or possibly more than just some people). Having said that, some of those people are bound to show BlackBerry a little love by buying their first BlackBerry BB10 phone ever! Imagine the experience and the love coming back from the BlackBerry BB10 10.2.1 and over Operating System. Imagine how much they will want to talk about it, and talk about it. Imagine how much better BB10 will sell as this excitement begins to catch on... The Avalanche, my friends, and your friends, and their friends, and so on... Rocking on with the Z30 or some other Awesome BB10 phone.

[belfastdispatcher]

Actually BlackBerry is making money in the enterprise section, which is where BlackBerry is focused mostly at the moment. Granted the sales of phones has been slow, but each time we hear something new about BB10 the Operating System just keeps getting better. Awesome really. Even BGR has written something positive about BB10. Go figure. The more people begin to see or read positive articles about BB10, the more people may start thinking maybe BlackBerry has something other then the hype (Apple/Samsung) has been spewing out and are offering. Something that is good a good alternative worthy of their money. Surely positive articles mean something to some people (or possibly more than just some people). Having said that, some of those people are bound to show BlackBerry a little love by buying their first BlackBerry BB10 phone ever! Imagine the experience and the love coming back from the BlackBerry BB10 10.2.1 and over Operating System. Imagine how much they will want to talk about it, and talk about it. Imagine how much better BB10 will sell as this excitement begins to catch on... The Avalanche, my friends, and your friends, and their friends, and so on... Rocking on with the Z30 or some other Awesome BB10 phone.

BB enterprise is also, at least for the moment, dominated my Legacy BES, not BB10.


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[spikesolie]

Or more realistically with an updated BB8 legacy device.


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It won't happen. Geezus while you are at it get a unicorn horn.

Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

It won't happen. Geezus while you are at it get a unicorn horn.

Posted via CB10

I already know it would take a miracle for BB to make an updated 9900, but I still hold a little hope.


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[Bbnivende]

The sad fact is that BlackBerry phones are not selling well in the UK anymore. Just look at the Carphone stores listing of Best Sellers. Who would not prefer a Lumia 520 over a BlackBerry 9320 and at a cheaper price ? BBOS devices are not selling well any more. The last time BlackBerry was popular was the 9320 at Christmas 2012. The Z10 is at a cheap price and it is not selling.

I just do not know what BlackBerry can do to reverse their fortunes. There is not a big horde of legacy users waiting to upgrade. They are just as likely to go android or iphone. The average BBOS user is not in love with their phone like BelfastDispatcher. If BlackBerry can make an all touch phone that sells as cheaply as a Lumia 520 there is some hope. They also need to be selling a physical keyboard model with a big screen. It is only on this fan site that consumers value a phone with a small screen and a trackpad. They need to make their premium phones with better screens, smaller bezels, better camera's and longer battery life. They need to be selling vetted Android apps in their store and they need to demonstrate why their phones are more secure.

[Skyforever]

BB enterprise is also, at least for the moment, dominated my Legacy BES, not BB10.


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My point is that BlackBerry is still making money Legacy BES or otherwise. Unfortunately BB10 has been a hard take we know, but we also know it is a good product notwithstanding. Now that BlackBerry has positioned itself with Foxconn for the long haul, it makes perfect sense that BB10 will eventually sell much better.

[JeepBB]

If BlackBerry can make an all touch phone that sells as cheaply as a Lumia 520 there is some hope.

I agreed with everything you said above, except this (which I realise you posed as a question)

In a reality where Chen says the upcoming Jakarta phone will be "under $200" (which we all, I suspect, understand to mean it'll be $199)... a BB Lumia 520-u-like equivalent/competitor is simply a dream!

[Deckard79]

Whilst that's still not really a proof of assumption, even if it was it doesn't warrant a'BB8' phone, ask those with legacy if they know about BB10 and most will say no, or their knowledge will be limited.. but again this thread isn't to discuss popularity of BB7 vs BB10 you can start another for that it's just about BlackBerry popularity in the UK in general,

TechCraze C0008DDD1

I didn't raise the topic, I merely responded to someone else.

Plus, the topic of BB7 vs BB10 ownership is important when analysing device ownership in the UK - it is perfectly suitable for this thread.

Finally, I don't agree with an argument for a BB8 OS upgrade anyway and that wasn't my point.

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[wincyUt]

Let's not kid ourselves though, the vast majority of those are Legacy devices, which explains why some of us are arguing for an updated BB7 device.

Blackberry is number 3 with a 3 year old lineup of Legacy devices.

You are stuck in a "Time Tunnel". Backwards never, Forward yes. You might as well go back to using the rotary telephones.

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[Traderhorn]

Wrong, every shop in UK has a BB10 section, it's more advertised then anywhere. And it's still not selling.

in my local shop there is a display as your photo, but wait yours has BB 10 phones
on display, in mine no phones been like it for weeks. so not every shop has Blackberry
phones available.
Attachment 246536


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