Blackberry Should Unlock Bootloader at Product End of Life (Android)

So, we are being geared up to move from BB10 to Android. It would make a lot of sense to pick up a BlackBerry Android device if it were not locked into planned obsolescence.

The real problem is that, unlike most other Android devices, the bootloader cannot be unlocked on the BlackBerry Android devices. (Someone prove me wrong, PLEASE!)

So, while many drool over the DTEK60, look down the line past Nougat. Once BlackBerry stops updating the device, the consumer is SOL, time to buy a new device if you want the next Android OS (which you really do need.)

One of the only saving graces for Android is the unlockable bootloader which allows for custom ROMs once device pushers stop updating the OS. CyanogenMod OS can keep many devices current long past their shelf life. I have a Motorola Droid 4 (died on Android 4.2 or 4.4) running Android 6.1 via CM13 with much promise of Android 7 via CM14!

TLDR: To switch from BB10 to Android but to commit to a BlackBerry Android, without an unlockable bootloader, seems like a death sentence via planned obsolescence.

Full disclosure: I want a DTEK60! Very badly!

Don't you think an unlockable bootloader will defy the very purpose of blackberry-android ?

Won't happen.....

They are selling these as secured devcies, doubt they care if some would like to unsecure them.

But yeah I agree.. this "we are getting out of the business", has to make you wonder if the licensing deal doesn't work out.. how many updates will the DTEK60 get?

But it they were ever going to unsecure one of their secured devcies... it should have been the PlayBook.

Originally Posted by blackmass

Don't you think an unlockable bootloader will defy the very purpose of blackberry-android ?

That's why I mentioned unlock the bootloader at EOL, not mid-product life.

Dunt, agreed, PlayBook would have been a prime choice for this approach.

However, in this new Android landscape, it would provide a safety net knowing that if BlackBerry exited or finished with a product's SW updates, there wasn't an artificial EOL on the device.

Originally Posted by llamax

That's why I mentioned unlock the bootloader at EOL, not mid-product life.

Well, then the first contender shud be blackberry 10, ppl here r dying to hav an Android passport.

Originally Posted by blackmass

Well, then the first contender shud be blackberry 10, ppl here r dying to hav an Android passport.

I completely agree with you! Unfortunately, BlackBerry can still lean on the 10.3.3 OS as "proof" that the Passport is not yet EOL.

It is sad but without an unlockable bootloader, the three BlackBerry Android devices sport a serious drawback against nearly all other Android devices.

I need a DTEK60 but cannot make a move in good faith knowing that it is dead in the water after Nougat or Android O - which is the exact opposite to years of BB10 support for all their devices!

Honestly, if you are looking for an android phone you should get one that is rootable at the very least.

Posted via CB10

If they keep updating for two or three years, they aren't doing more or less than what you'd get on a Sammy or any other brand.

:-)

Most (average) people will not load ROMs...

�   "BB10 dead?" - "Let's dance the Danse MacaBBRY! ... or is it..?" ;-D   �

Originally Posted by llamax

It is sad but without an unlockable bootloader, the three BlackBerry Android devices sport a serious drawback against nearly all other Android devices.

But in the future?

sadly Google seems to have decided that unlocking bootloaders/roms/rooting is bad for Google Android. They are using the SafetyNet API which is part of Google Play Service to detect unlocks and disable Android Pay. Also some apps like Pokemon Go and Snapchat also use the API to confirm stock devices. More apps will get on board with this in the name of security.

Right, SafetyNet does block unlocked bootloader devices which is why you re-lock the device after you make your changes.

This is just like CyanogenMod OS that has the Root slider on/off in the options. Enable it when you need it then disable it.

Being able to unlock and lock at will is the path against planned obsolescence, early device retirement.

Originally Posted by llamax

Right, SafetyNet does block unlocked bootloader devices which is why you re-lock the device after you make your changes.

This is just like CyanogenMod OS that has the Root slider on/off in the options. Enable it when you need it then disable it.

Being able to unlock and lock at will is the path against planned obsolescence, early device retirement.

The trip is done server side by Google so you can't untrip it by relocking the bootloader The verification of whether SafetyNet has ever been tripped will be checked by the bootloader in upcoming updates. HTC has already done this where even reloading the stock image won't bypass SafetyNet.

Safety Net - The Already Lost Cat-And-Mouse Game
Keep in mind, in the latest update of Safety Net that just happened in a few hours, Google seems to step up the game, and it might got to the point that no modifications are allowed, and might be impossible to bypass.
Currently on my HTC 10, no matter what I did to the boot image, even just a repack of 100% stock boot image, Safety Net will not pass under any circumstances. On the other hand, my Nexus 9 running stock Nougat seems bypass without issues, with root and modules all enabled and working fine. The boot verification might vary from one OEM to another, HTC's implementation might just be one of the first included into Safety Net, but eventually all major OEMs' method will be included, and at that time I think any Android "mod", including custom kernels, will pretty much break Safety Net. These verification should be coded deep into the bootloader, which is not that easy to crack. So the conclusion is that I will not spend that much time bypassing Safety Net in the future.

So Googles plan is make it harder to tamper the system via Nougat OS updates. When its bypassed use SafetyNet as the final trigger. Since its controlled server side by Google they can untrip it whenever they push out a security update that fixes a major security hole for example.

Originally Posted by Ment

sadly Google seems to have decided that unlocking bootloaders/roms/rooting is bad for Google Android. They are using the SafetyNet API which is part of Google Play Service to detect unlocks and disable Android Pay. Also some apps like Pokemon Go and Snapchat also use the API to confirm stock devices. More apps will get on board with this in the name of security.

Now,... where's the freedom suddenly on the "oh so open" Android when corporate interests are at stake...? :-)

�   "BB10 dead?" - "Let's dance the Danse MacaBBRY! ... or is it..?" ;-D   �

Originally Posted by Prem WatsApp

Now,... where's the freedom suddenly on the "oh so open" Android when corporate interests are at stake...? :-)

•   "BB10 dead?" - "Let's dance the Danse MacaBBRY! ... or is it..?" ;-D   •

There will always be some niche phone or phones for China that don't participate in Googles security scheme but yes for the vast majority of people those halcyon days will be gone when the big OEMs come on board and then those measures become part of the CTS device review process to get a Google license.

Originally Posted by Ment

The trip is done server side by Google so you can't untrip it by relocking the bootloader The verification of whether SafetyNet has ever been tripped will be checked by the bootloader in upcoming updates. HTC has already done this where even reloading the stock image won't bypass SafetyNet.

My understanding is that we do not know that tripping SafetyNet once and re-locking the bootloader means failing SafetyNet forever.

I have not seen evidence that re-locking the bootloader and removing/disabling root continues to fail SafetyNet.

Originally Posted by llamax

My understanding is that we do not know that tripping SafetyNet once and re-locking the bootloader means failing SafetyNet forever.

I have not seen evidence that re-locking the bootloader and removing/disabling root continues to fail SafetyNet.

From security perspective why would Google want that to be the case? If someone unlocks the bootloader which is considered a system breach you'd want SafetyNet to notice, not be asleep at the switch once it was locked it again.

Originally Posted by Prem WatsApp

Now,... where's the freedom suddenly on the "oh so open" Android when corporate interests are at stake...? :-)

This has nothing to do with Android (specifically AOSP) being open, nor corporate interests. Rather, it is for security reasons, as Android is increasingly a target of attack by hackers.

This is, in fact, just the kind of thing that BB might have done if they were strongly in the game of the smartphone business - and folks here would have been praising BB's initiative and leadership for doing so...

Originally Posted by Prem WatsApp

If they keep updating for two or three years, they aren't doing more or less than what you'd get on a Sammy or any other brand.

:-)

Most (average) people will not load ROMs...

�   "BB10 dead?" - "Let's dance the Danse MacaBBRY! ... or is it..?" ;-D   �

That's the thing.... My 2 Android tablets can't apparently be updated beyond 4.3, and they aren't 3 years old yet. Not sure why I would worry about a DTEK phone provided it at least gets to 7

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

It's a phone.

Can it make calls and send texts? :rotfl:

Originally Posted by Prem WatsApp

Now,... where's the freedom suddenly on the "oh so open" Android when corporate interests are at stake...? :-)

Not just corporate interests, but also the integrity of Android Pay for users, banks, and merchants. Banks have been pushing Google on this issue. SafetyNet helps to mitigate some serious potential vulnerabilities in Android Pay.

Originally Posted by fschmeck

That's the thing.... My 2 Android tablets can't apparently be updated beyond 4.3, and they aren't 3 years old yet. Not sure why I would worry about a DTEK phone provided it at least gets to 7

Because CyanogenMod may be able to breathe life into your device as I mentioned Android 6, potentially 7, on a device that ended life at 4.2. It avoids immediate planned obsolescence.

What are your two Android tablets? Is CyanogenMod available for them?