01-31-13 12:25 PM
32 12
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  1. Jonesy1966's Avatar
    I wrote this in another thread but it seems this question is appearing in far too many other posts and threads that I can't keep up! I'm actually amazed how easy it has been for a lot of you to heap blame on BlackBerry without any evidence to support that blame. It's a case of "I can't make sense of it any other way so it must be their fault." I've even seen people say they will be jumping ship because of the implied slight that happened today! Anyhow, here's what I wrote. Maybe some of you would like to absorb it. And before you ask, no I won't tell you the journalist's name, I was told this in a private conversation and that's the way it will stay. He writes for a major newspaper in Canada and for several tech journals and blogs and is a very respected voice in the business.

    I chatted to a Canadian journalist friend of mine who was at the NYC launch and he said that RIM BlackBerry nailed it. The only issue he saw was the US launch. He said this will look bad on RIM BlackBerry but it wasn't their fault at all. Apparently all the carriers in the US decided they would hold out for a better deal on the hardware than what the rest of the world was getting. RIM BlackBerry apparently put their foot down and said that there were NO exclusivity arrangements to be had, everyone was to pay more or less the same. After that the carriers supposedly slowed down negotiations putting RIM BlackBerry in a bind regarding inventory allocation. The carriers lost out, their allocation went to other carriers and other countries. They have nobody to blame but themselves.
    01-30-13 06:36 PM
  2. Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes's Avatar
    theres a poll for this
    01-30-13 06:37 PM
  3. jimpilot's Avatar
    May be all true but in the end Blackberry will pay for it
    01-30-13 06:38 PM
  4. Nindia's Avatar
    To say RIM is to blame is ignorant.

    They have the production capacity...why in the **** would they not want a global launch as soon as humanly possible? If it was up to RIM, everyone would have it tomorrow ready for purchase.

    The process in the USA is a lot longer to get phones certified for use.
    01-30-13 06:39 PM
  5. Jonesy1966's Avatar
    theres a poll for this
    There may well be a poll, but it doesn't seem to be stopping the posts blaming BlackBerry for the US launch delay.
    01-30-13 06:40 PM
  6. oilgeo10's Avatar
    Maybe US govt departments and the POTUS himself will want BB10 after seeing the Balance feature, and put a bit of pressure on the US carriers!
    01-30-13 08:11 PM
  7. WES51's Avatar
    The process in the USA is a lot longer to get phones certified for use.
    So other manufacturers can pull it off but Blackberry can't ???

    and then you say that:

    To say RIM is to blame is ignorant.
    ???

    Oh, please.

    RIM is exactly at the place where it belogs. It will either get it's act together and come out or go under forever.

    Don't get me wrong, I love mine for many reasons just like anybody else here on this forum.

    I'm just getting tired of hearing excuses.
    JeepBB likes this.
    01-30-13 09:50 PM
  8. OMGitworks's Avatar
    So RIMM lost almost another BILLION dollars in market cap today. I am not sure what the US carriers wanted, but I am willing to bet it wasn't anywhere near just what RIMM lost today. They may have won the moral battle, but at what cost? They made a business decision. I am just not sure if it was the right one. Its not a viable excuse for a large corporation if they chose not to do what it took to get US carriers on board in a more timely fashion. Its is their fault, whether it is justified or not is up to the marketplace to decide. Today the stock market told them they picked the wrong path.Tomorrow and the days after may prove they were right, we shall see. The carriers will sell just as many phones over the next 45 days....

    I'd much rather they used the $$ from the Super Bowl ad to entice the US carriers to have it ready next week than have an ad and no phone.
    Last edited by OMGitworks; 01-30-13 at 10:23 PM.
    01-30-13 10:01 PM
  9. trueredsoxfan_58's Avatar
    I think the delayed launch is because BB doesnt have all the big name apps yet. They want to launch in the US with all the apps (netflix, instagram, snapchat etc.) To do this especially in the US would be a poor decision. Hopefully netflix will come around as i use them alot
    01-30-13 10:03 PM
  10. Vorkosigan's Avatar
    So RIMM lost almost another BILLION dollars in market cap today. I am not sure what the US carriers wanted, but I am willing to bet it wasn't anywhere near just what RIMM lost today. They may have won the moral battle, but at what cost? They made a business decision. I am just not sure if it was the right one. Its not a viable excuse for a large corporation if they chose not to do what it took to get US carriers on board in a more timely fashion. Its is their fault, whether it is justified or not is up to the marketplace to decide. Today the stock market told them they picked the wrong path.Tomorrow and the days after may prove they were right, we shall see. The carriers will sell just as many phones over the next 45 days....

    I'd much rather they used the $$ from the Super Bowl ad to entice the US carriers to have it ready next week than have an ad and no phone.
    So they should have cut special deals with the US carriers? And then what happens to their relationship to the rest of the world's carriers who were eager to support BlackBerry under their agreed terms? I think, if this is the true reason, and it seems far more plausible to me than 'US testing takes longer' then BlackBerry made the right decision. You can, and should, have morals in the business world. It may lose them money short term, but it keeps their respect and trust with all the other carriers in the world.
    01-31-13 06:46 AM
  11. bk1022's Avatar
    So they should have cut special deals with the US carriers? And then what happens to their relationship to the rest of the world's carriers who were eager to support BlackBerry under their agreed terms? I think, if this is the true reason, and it seems far more plausible to me than 'US testing takes longer' then BlackBerry made the right decision. You can, and should, have morals in the business world. It may lose them money short term, but it keeps their respect and trust with all the other carriers in the world.
    The real problem is that the phones are too expensive. Bloomberg had an article that chastised BlackBerry for the cost. The phone is marginally better than existing competitor's products, at best. It doesn't have any bis at all and yet it is very expensive.
    01-31-13 07:05 AM
  12. greggebhardt's Avatar
    To say RIM is to blame is ignorant.

    They have the production capacity...why in the **** would they not want a global launch as soon as humanly possible? If it was up to RIM, everyone would have it tomorrow ready for purchase.

    The process in the USA is a lot longer to get phones certified for use.
    They have had a couple of YEARS!!!!
    01-31-13 07:44 AM
  13. rcab's Avatar
    If this is true that the carriers were desiring a better deal then Blackberry should have said no and then said "we are going to sell unlocked phones direct to US consumers." If the carriers are at fault then Blackberry should have looked at selling direct until they got ready. They could have announced during the month of Feb that they would sell unlocked phones at such and such price direct to consumers. Once March rolls around the offer would no longer be available. This would let the stock market and the critics know for sure it was not their fault.
    Jonesy1966 likes this.
    01-31-13 07:49 AM
  14. trsbbs's Avatar
    To say RIM is to blame is ignorant.

    They have the production capacity...why in the **** would they not want a global launch as soon as humanly possible? If it was up to RIM, everyone would have it tomorrow ready for purchase.

    The process in the USA is a lot longer to get phones certified for use.
    You act as if BB did not know how long it takes for carrier certs.. They should and did know.

    This isn't their first new phone ya know.
    .
    They did not get the phones to the carriers soon enough. To think otherwise is saying BB is incompetent.
    Or they have a production capacity issue. Again incompetent.

    That I wil not disagree on.

    Tim


    Sent from my BlackBerry 9850
    JeepBB likes this.
    01-31-13 07:55 AM
  15. OMGitworks's Avatar
    So they should have cut special deals with the US carriers? And then what happens to their relationship to the rest of the world's carriers who were eager to support BlackBerry under their agreed terms? I think, if this is the true reason, and it seems far more plausible to me than 'US testing takes longer' then BlackBerry made the right decision. You can, and should, have morals in the business world. It may lose them money short term, but it keeps their respect and trust with all the other carriers in the world.
    I won't argue with any of that. But assuming the facts are correct, BB had a choice and chose not to give into the US carriers. I am not saying that is right or wrong or making any moral judgment. All I am saying is that in the end, it may cost them dearly and much more that they would have paid out. We know it cost them a Billion in market cap,at least short term. Looks like pre-market is another 500M, but that could change. I SUSPECT, but don't know that it is also going to cost them US sales and also greatly devalue and nullify most of the US advertising and other costs they are now incurring that won't lead to sales due to the delay.

    FWIW here is what happened in my house this morning. I suspect we are not alone in the US Market (we are "different" but not that bad ).. My upgrade was due in Aug. I have been holding out waiting for BB10 with a 9650. My 2 kids and wife all have iPhones. I am the hold out. My 17 year old ridiculed me and it was funny. I had been telling him about BB10, he saw the online stuff yesterday and texted me and wrote Dad it looks cool I want to see it when you get it. We were all have breakfast this am. Thor was on the Today show and did well. When he was done my 13 year old asked me if I was getting the new phone today. I told her it wasn't available until March. At the same time both kids and my wife ALL expressed disbelief. My 17 yo wondered why they would be all over TV and press but not have a phone ready. I told him there was going to be Super Bowl Ad, he laughed. All of this probably doesn't mean anything, but I am just saying that if my 17 and 13 year old get the issue, why didn't BB?

    We shall see how it all plays out, but I think BB seriously underestimated the fall out from not playing ball with the US carriers.
    01-31-13 08:12 AM
  16. bb10_fan's Avatar
    The real problem is that the phones are too expensive. Bloomberg had an article that chastised BlackBerry for the cost. The phone is marginally better than existing competitor's products, at best. It doesn't have any bis at all and yet it is very expensive.
    Expensive? Let me see:

    iPhone 5 16 GB - 660 euro
    Nokia Lumia 920 32 GB - 584 euro
    Samsung Galaxy S III 32GB - 590 euro
    BlackBerry 10 - 560 euro + ~10 euro for 32GB SD card
    Superfly_FR, schmeat and undone like this.
    01-31-13 08:25 AM
  17. mrfreetruth's Avatar
    So other manufacturers can pull it off but Blackberry can't ???

    and then you say that:

    Are you stupid? Are you saying RIM was ALBE to get it out almost EVERWHERE in the world on time but they dragged their feet for the US ? Is that what you are saying?



    ???

    Oh, please.

    RIM is exactly at the place where it belogs. It will either get it's act together and come out or go under forever.

    Don't get me wrong, I love mine for many reasons just like anybody else here on this forum.

    I'm just getting tired of hearing excuses.
    01-31-13 09:06 AM
  18. Chaddface's Avatar
    You can find articles from 6 months ago stating that the phones would not release in the US until 4-5 weeks after Europe. Why is everyone shocked now?

    Since all these post are speculation, here is my guess:

    RIM never planned to release the phones in the US before or at the same time as the rest of the world. Americans, for the most part, have left blackberry. Why not first release it in parts of the world that still like the product? Generate some good press then open the release Worldwide. So yes, Blackberry is to blame for a later launch in the US but it seems to be a strategy.
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    01-31-13 09:13 AM
  19. jimpilot's Avatar
    I am wondering aloud if there isn't a connection between there being no dev phone for Verizon and delayed release. Maybe the contract with Verizon required they release same day as say AT&T. I wonder if there is an issue with the CDMA phone that is the real delay.
    01-31-13 09:45 AM
  20. jimpilot's Avatar
    You can find articles from 6 months ago stating that the phones would not release in the US until 4-5 weeks after Europe. Why is everyone shocked now?

    Since all these post are speculation, here is my guess:

    RIM never planned to release the phones in the US before or at the same time as the rest of the world. Americans, for the most part, have left blackberry. Why not first release it in parts of the world that still like the product? Generate some good press then open the release Worldwide. So yes, Blackberry is to blame for a later launch in the US but it seems to be a strategy.
    Could you point us to those articles?
    01-31-13 09:47 AM
  21. WES51's Avatar
    Are you stupid?
    You are sooooo desparate to prove your point that you resort to name calling?

    You also might want to train a little more to learn how to properly use the REPLY/QUOTE function.
    Ya'll find there is a way to write a reply without embedding your "thoughts" in the original post.
    Are you saying RIM was ALBE to get it out almost EVERWHERE in the world on time but they dragged their feet for the US ? Is that what you are saying?
    Your question was already answered by others in some previous post.

    Just like other manufactures, Blackberry knew very vell what they are dealing with in the US. If other manufacturers are able to keep their releases timely, than Blackberry should too, especially when Blackberry is already being late from being late from being late.

    The stock price plunge accurately reflects the worries of investors - are we dealing with a company that no longer has it's act together and in it's CURRENT STATE no longer able to pull things off in order to compete in the market.
    JeepBB likes this.
    01-31-13 09:50 AM
  22. Chaddface's Avatar
    Could you point us to those articles?
    Here is one:
    Leaked confidential RIM roadmap shows launch of BlackBerry 10 handsets
    Superfly_FR and jimpilot like this.
    01-31-13 09:51 AM
  23. undone's Avatar
    If US carriers didnt subsidize the phones they'd be here today.
    01-31-13 09:52 AM
  24. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    You can find articles from 6 months ago stating that the phones would not release in the US until 4-5 weeks after Europe. Why is everyone shocked now?

    Since all these post are speculation, here is my guess:

    RIM never planned to release the phones in the US before or at the same time as the rest of the world. Americans, for the most part, have left blackberry. Why not first release it in parts of the world that still like the product? Generate some good press then open the release Worldwide. So yes, Blackberry is to blame for a later launch in the US but it seems to be a strategy.
    I should have read this before. I surely 100% agree.
    And sorry OP for the duplicated thread.
    01-31-13 10:26 AM
  25. jegs2's Avatar
    Whether or not BlackBerry is to blame will not matter. Is a bicycle who had the right-of-way but was creamed by a semi-truck to blame? No, but in the end it doesn't matter.
    jimpilot and OMGitworks like this.
    01-31-13 10:28 AM
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