06-08-16 10:46 AM
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  1. sorinv's Avatar
    I am sorry but none of that Troy's post about RTOS for phones makes sense to me.

    A smartphone SHOULD be a mobile laptop plus a phone, not a dummy device used by people who don't know or care what a file manager is.

    But Apple Google, Microsoft, have other agendas. They do not want to butcher their laptop/tablet or data mining businesses, so they don't care about the consumer.

    They care only about how to strip the consumer of as much money or data (i.e. money) as possible.

    Blackberry had no laptop or data mining business... so a mobile laptop made a lot of sense. That idea was killed early by Chen.

    At least that's how it looks from a hardware engineer's perspective who wants to carry only one device which performs the phone, tablet and laptop functions and does not want others to have access to his data.
    Having heard Lazaridis talk on these issues in 2011 BBC World News, I am pretty convinced that that is how he saw things, too.

    All that is needed is a laptop/tablet/phone/watch combo in different form factors, screen sizes, attaching to external screens and input devices when necessary, but also fully independent and fully functional without any other peripherals.
    06-04-16 05:09 PM
  2. donnation's Avatar
    I am sorry but none of that Troy's post about RTOS for phones makes sense to me.

    A smartphone SHOULD be a mobile laptop plus a phone, not a dummy device used by people who don't know or care what a file manager is.

    But Apple Google, Microsoft, have other agendas. They do not want to butcher their laptop/tablet or data mining businesses, so they don't care about the consumer.

    They care only about how to strip the consumer of as much money or data (i.e. money) as possible.

    Blackberry had no laptop or data mining business... so a mobile laptop made a lot of sense. That idea was killed early by Chen.

    At least that's how it looks from a hardware engineer's perspective who wants to carry only one device which performs the phone, tablet and laptop functions and does not want others to have access to his data.
    Having heard Lazaridis talk on these issues in 2011 BBC World News, I am pretty convinced that that is how he saw things, too.
    Dude I'm sorry, and I don't really know any other way to put this, but your posts are the most pretentious things I have ever read in my life. Every one of them.
    06-04-16 05:18 PM
  3. sorinv's Avatar
    Dude I'm sorry, and I don't really know any other way to put this, but your posts are the most pretentious things I have ever read in my life. Every one of them.
    It's common sense, not pretentiousness. If you disagree, you should provide a different point of view instead of an insult.

    That's exactly how laptops have been for a long time: different processor speeds, different memory sizes, different external storage sizes, different screen sizes, different form factors and different battery capacity yet running the same OS (one of three: windows, MacOs, linux) and having the same functionality irrespective of form factor.
    Bluenoser63 likes this.
    06-04-16 05:24 PM
  4. Jerry A's Avatar
    It's common sense, not pretentiousness. If you disagree, you should provide a different point of view instead of an insult.

    That's exactly how laptops have been for a long time: different processor speeds, different memory sizes, different external storage sizes, different screen sizes, different form factors and different battery capacity yet running the same OS (one of three: windows, MacOs, linux) and having the same functionality irrespective of form factor.
    It's not common sense. You fail to grasp that others can are just as productive on their smartphones even if they don't use it in a manner you proscribe.

    That inability or unwillingness to grasp that somehow real work is getting done using a different paradigm is pretentious.
    06-04-16 08:04 PM
  5. thurask's Avatar
    That inability or unwillingness to grasp that somehow real work is getting done using a different paradigm is pretentious.
    Always relevant:

    06-05-16 02:00 AM
  6. sorinv's Avatar
    It's not common sense. You fail to grasp that others can are just as productive on their smartphones even if they don't use it in a manner you proscribe.

    That inability or unwillingness to grasp that somehow real work is getting done using a different paradigm is pretentious.
    Where have I written that others are not productive on an iPhone or android?
    All I wrote was that I, as an engineer who uses his phone as a laptop, am not productive on an iPhone or on a mac to the same degree that I am productive on a Passport and Linux laptop.
    I have also written that few people are like me, not out of pretentiousness, but in recognition that others are quite different.

    The manner I described allows all others to do what they do now as productively as ever. It would also allow me to be as productive as I am on a passport and laptop but cannot be on an iPhone or android phone.

    There seems to be a misconception here that a smartphone is less powerful than a laptop.
    This is not true. The smartphone has everything a laptop does plus more: sensors, radio transceivers, capability to connect to all types of networks.
    That distinction has been blurring over time and will continue to diminish.

    Apple merged the cellphone and the laptop when the iphone came out. The only problem was/is that they realized that if they unleashed its full potential it would cannibalize their tablet and laptop sales.

    You can also put the same sensors in the laptop.
    There is no difference now between smartphones and laptops other than form factor and a range of memory sizes, screen sizes, processor power and speed.
    deadcowboy likes this.
    06-05-16 05:04 AM
  7. early2bed's Avatar
    I A smartphone SHOULD be a mobile laptop plus a phone, not a dummy device used by people who don't know or care what a file manager is.
    This is the recipe for smartphone failure over the past several years - thinking that it should be a mobile PC that has a phone. Why should a mobile user have to manage files? Here's a file - click it to see if it's a web page, photo, music, text file, database, spreadsheet, video (any number of formats), proprietary data, or an executable that can do practically anything to your device. That makes sense.

    It's called functional fixation. Instead of "This is the what I want it to do," one is fixated on "This is the way I want it to work." Try to get beyond the way that you that you feel that computers should work and think about what you want them to do.

    The iOS or Android interface may seem dumbed down to you but in expanding the market for smartphone to casual users, they greatly enhanced their overall capabilities - kind of like what the PC did for computing in general. The longer you hang on to your Passport and Linux laptop, the more functionality you are going to be missing out on.
    Last edited by early2bed; 06-05-16 at 05:21 AM.
    06-05-16 05:11 AM
  8. donnation's Avatar
    It's common sense, not pretentiousness. If you disagree, you should provide a different point of view instead of an insult.

    That's exactly how laptops have been for a long time: different processor speeds, different memory sizes, different external storage sizes, different screen sizes, different form factors and different battery capacity yet running the same OS (one of three: windows, MacOs, linux) and having the same functionality irrespective of form factor.
    I do apologize, and I'm sure you don't mean for them to come across that way, that's just how they come across to me. I just don't think that stating that a smartphone shouldn't be used by people who don't know or care what a file manager is doesn't mean they shouldn't be using a smartphone or that their phone is a dummy device. People have different needs and use their phone in different ways and I don't think your statement like the one I was quoting is remotely accurate. The Priv doesn't come with a file manager, is it a dummy device? Blackberry didn't include one so by your assessment they don't care about the consumer. If having a phone that prints documents out of the box is extremely important to me it would be very easy for me to say that a BB10 phone is a dummy device since it can't do it, or that people shouldn't own that "dummy device" because they don't know or don't care about printing.
    06-05-16 05:18 AM
  9. sorinv's Avatar
    This is the recipe for smartphone failure over the past several years - thinking that it should be a mobile PC that has a phone. Why should a mobile user have to manage files? Here's a file - click it to see if it's a web page, photo, music, text file, database, spreadsheet, video (any number of formats), proprietary data, or an executable that can do practically anything to your device. That makes sense.

    It's called functional fixation. Instead of "This is the what I want it to do," one is fixated on "This is the way I want it to work." Try to get beyond the way that you that you feel that computers should work and think about what you want them to do.
    Indeed. I have just stated what I WOULD LIKE a smartphone to do, besides what it does now. I use it differently than some people here describe.
    My description is inclusive of others, unlike some posts here which tell me that I shouldn't be doing on a cellphone what I do now and what I do on a laptop.
    Last edited by sorinv; 06-05-16 at 10:20 AM.
    06-05-16 05:22 AM
  10. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    This is the recipe for smartphone failure over the past several years - thinking that it should be a mobile PC that has a phone. Why should a mobile user have to manage files? Here's a file - click it to see if it's a web page, photo, music, text file, database, spreadsheet, video (any number of formats), proprietary data, or an executable that can do practically anything to your device. That makes sense.

    It's called functional fixation. Instead of "This is the what I want it to do," one is fixated on "This is the way I want it to work." Try to get beyond the way that you that you feel that computers should work and think about what you want them to do.

    The iOS or Android interface may seem dumbed down to you but in expanding the market for smartphone to casual users, they greatly enhanced their overall capabilities - kind of like what the PC did for computing in general. The longer you hang on to your Passport and Linux laptop, the more functionality you are going to be missing out on.
    The interface is dumbed down on those two. A mobile user like myself which is an IT manager needs to have a file manager on my phone to manage install files and document files storage on my SD card to always have them in case I need them. I also need to manage six emails accounts in real time. When you are a consumer of data like it sounds you are, you can live with a dumbed down device. When you are a power user like myself or sorinv, then you need to have a phone that is as close to a laptop as possible. BlackBerry 10 does this for me. Windows 10 with Continuum is even closer to the ideal than BB10. Moving to your consumer platform, we would lose that functionality that we need. You can stay being a consumer, others need to push data.
    deadcowboy likes this.
    06-05-16 06:06 AM
  11. deadcowboy's Avatar
    I don't know why anyone is speaking ill of BB10's impressive mobile computing capabilities. The operating system allows it to function as a laptop replacement for me, and some work is more enjoyable on my Passport than on my laptop. File management, email management, media viewing, etc. It's an impressive tool that runs counter to iOS and Android's lightweight but more on-the-go, bite-size experiences.

    It's whatever a person needs. I was astonished by bb10 coming from iOS. It seemed like the future to me. I'm still impressed by BB10 every day. I've never felt that way about iOS or Android, not since the iPhone 2G was released.

    I'd have to pick up an iPhone and a MacBook to feel as in control as I do with a Classic or a Passport. And that's unfortunately what I may end up doing in the future now that BB10 development has slowed to almost nada.

    I think the RTOS is why I like BlackBerry and QNX. When other development houses scoff at their decision to go RT, it seems rather small and shortsighted.

    Posted via CB10
    DonHB likes this.
    06-05-16 08:43 AM
  12. donnation's Avatar
    The first point makes no sense since BB10 has the same or better battery life than Android and iOS and Windows 10 Phone. Also there are more complaints about the Priv heating up than the other BB10 phones.
    Not really. In order to get equal or potentially better battery life there has to be a trade off with Blackberry phones. BB10 doesn't do well with battery management, as evidence by the Z10, which had horrific battery life. In order to get better battery life Blackberry needed to have a trade off. Q10 and Classic, small screens. Z30 - dim washed out screen. Passport - massive battery that underperforms against the iPhone 6S Plus which has a larger screen and much smaller battery. When Blackberry tried to go all in with a great screen and smaller battery the result was pathetic battery life (Z10). If the Passport had a battery the size of the iPhone 6S Plus it wouldn't last half a day. Putting a massive battery in a phone and then claiming it has great battery life only paints half the picture. I like that Blackberry at least puts a larger battery in the Passport; but honestly they had to or it wouldn't last 4 hours.
    Jerry A likes this.
    06-05-16 09:17 AM
  13. sorinv's Avatar
    I do apologize, and I'm sure you don't mean for them to come across that way, that's just how they come across to me. I just don't think that stating that a smartphone shouldn't be used by people who don't know or care what a file manager is doesn't mean they shouldn't be using a smartphone or that their phone is a dummy device. People have different needs and use their phone in different ways and I don't think your statement like the one I was quoting is remotely accurate. The Priv doesn't come with a file manager, is it a dummy device? Blackberry didn't include one so by your assessment they don't care about the consumer. If having a phone that prints documents out of the box is extremely important to me it would be very easy for me to say that a BB10 phone is a dummy device since it can't do it, or that people shouldn't own that "dummy device" because they don't know or don't care about printing.
    Apology accepted.

    Please note, however, that I didn't write that the smartphone SHOLDN'T be used by people who didn't know what a file manager was.
    I wrote what the phone SHOULD be and that today is used (designed for) people who don't know what a file manager is.
    It's easy to misread things if you do it quickly on a small screen...
    06-05-16 10:25 AM
  14. deadcowboy's Avatar
    Not really. In order to get equal or potentially better battery life there has to be a trade off with Blackberry phones. BB10 doesn't do well with battery management, as evidence by the Z10, which had horrific battery life. In order to get better battery life Blackberry needed to have a trade off. Q10 and Classic, small screens. Z30 - dim washed out screen. Passport - massive battery that underperforms against the iPhone 6S Plus which has a larger screen and much smaller battery. When Blackberry tried to go all in with a great screen and smaller battery the result was pathetic battery life (Z10). If the Passport had a battery the size of the iPhone 6S Plus it wouldn't last half a day. Putting a massive battery in a phone and then claiming it has great battery life only paints half the picture. I like that Blackberry at least puts a larger battery in the Passport; but honestly they had to or it wouldn't last 4 hours.
    If I want to upload my iPhone's photo library to dropbox, I have to do so with the app open. If I pop into Safari or Youtube for a bit, the photo upload will pause after a minute or two. No wonder it has good battery life, it doesn't multask.

    You're comparing a shallow, frustrating experience to a rich, powerful experience. Of course BB10 will require more power. That doesn't mean iPhone is more elegantly designed when iOS can't do the things that BB10 does with ease. But what about Android? Those phones have Passport sized batteries and eek even few hours out of them than BB10 does. What about everyone I know who owns an iPhone who can't make it through a full day?

    I tried an iPhone 6s a month ago, and there were an amazing number of bugs, even with native apps like Reminder, which would freeze and NOT automatically close. I found battery life to be adequate for a full day of light to medium use, however.

    Posted via CB10
    Bluenoser63 likes this.
    06-05-16 10:43 AM
  15. app_Developer's Avatar
    Please note, however, that I didn't write that the smartphone SHOLDN'T be used by people who didn't know what a file manager was.
    I wrote what the phone SHOULD be and that today is used (designed for) people who don't know what a file manager is.
    It's easy to misread things if you do it quickly on a small screen...
    Have you tried any of the file manager apps available for MM? Or the one in Settings?

    The reason I ask is I wonder if BB can make a file manager for MM that satisfies what people like about the one in BB10. I think this may be possible now, unless I'm missing something?
    06-05-16 11:32 AM
  16. thurask's Avatar
    Have you tried any of the file manager apps available for MM? Or the one in Settings?

    The reason I ask is I wonder if BB can make a file manager for MM that satisfies what people like about the one in BB10. I think this may be possible now, unless I'm missing something?
    About the only truly unique thing about the BB10 file manager (besides lack of select all) is Link's remote file access, but there are ways (FTP, cloud storage) to get something like that on other platforms.

    For example, ES shows everything in local storage and Dropbox (like BB10), but also does Mega, Google Drive, FTP, local SMB shares, etc. (unlike BB10). To me, the BB10 file manager is less "minimalist simplicity" and more "incapable".

    But, ultimately, whinging about it on CB is easier than actually taking the effort to learn ES/Solid Explorer/etc.
    cribble2k likes this.
    06-05-16 01:01 PM
  17. brookie229's Avatar
    About the only truly unique thing about the BB10 file manager (besides lack of select all) is Link's remote file access, but there are ways (FTP, cloud storage) to get something like that on other platforms
    The other unique thing is that it is built INTO the OS.
    deadcowboy likes this.
    06-05-16 01:05 PM
  18. thurask's Avatar
    The other unique thing is that it is built INTO the OS.
    So you don't have to spend fifteen seconds on Google Play, big deal.
    06-05-16 01:05 PM
  19. conite's Avatar
    The other unique thing is that it is built INTO the OS.
    It's not any more "built-in" than Solid Explorer is built-in to Android. The BB10 File Manager is an app like any other.
    06-05-16 01:16 PM
  20. brookie229's Avatar
    It's not any more "built-in" than Solid Explorer is built-in to Android. The BB10 File Manager is an app like any other.
    Technically, I guess it is an app, but it is one that you cannot remove. I know there are android apps that offer better functionality than the File Manager, but I would rather have BB make one for me.
    Bluenoser63 likes this.
    06-05-16 01:22 PM
  21. deadcowboy's Avatar
    About the only truly unique thing about the BB10 file manager (besides lack of select all) is Link's remote file access, but there are ways (FTP, cloud storage) to get something like that on other platforms.

    For example, ES shows everything in local storage and Dropbox (like BB10), but also does Mega, Google Drive, FTP, local SMB shares, etc. (unlike BB10). To me, the BB10 file manager is less "minimalist simplicity" and more "incapable".

    But, ultimately, whinging about it on CB is easier than actually taking the effort to learn ES/Solid Explorer/etc.
    But BB10's File Manager doesn't take any learning. The design of it is leagues better than the rest. And I mean the UI, UX, and overall flow of it. Link is not its only benefit.

    Also, who are the people making ES and Solid? I read that ES was said to have had malware in their browser. And I'd rather give BlackBerry access to my files than a Chinese company I don't know.

    Posted via CB10
    06-05-16 01:30 PM
  22. thurask's Avatar
    But BB10's File Manager doesn't take any learning. The design of it is leagues better than the rest. And I mean the UI, UX, and overall flow of it. Link is not its only benefit.
    I'd happily have being able to do what I need instead of layers of chrome.
    06-05-16 01:37 PM
  23. conite's Avatar
    But BB10's File Manager doesn't take any learning. The design of it is leagues better than the rest. And I mean the UI, UX, and overall flow of it.

    Posted via CB10
    It's "simple" only because it's devoid of features.

    I would also argue that it is the file structure of Android as opposed to the file manager that makes it seem less simple.
    06-05-16 01:39 PM
  24. Soulstream's Avatar
    But BB10's File Manager doesn't take any learning. The design of it is leagues better than the rest. And I mean the UI, UX, and overall flow of it. Link is not its only benefit.

    Also, who are the people making ES and Solid? I read that ES was said to have had malware in their browser. And I'd rather give BlackBerry access to my files than a Chinese company I don't know.

    Posted via CB10
    Solid explorer is done by a polish company. you trust BB, others trust other companies. For all you know BB could very well "steal" all the files from all BB10 devices. Using any app means putting trust into the app dev.
    Zidentia likes this.
    06-05-16 01:42 PM
  25. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    But BB10's File Manager doesn't take any learning. The design of it is leagues better than the rest. And I mean the UI, UX, and overall flow of it. Link is not its only benefit.

    Also, who are the people making ES and Solid? I read that ES was said to have had malware in their browser. And I'd rather give BlackBerry access to my files than a Chinese company I don't know.

    Posted via CB10
    No file explorer really takes any learning if all you're using it for is navigating a file system. Compared to ES and Solid Explorer, the BB file explorer is severely lacking in features.

    ES isn't malware. They simply became too invasive with ad spamming, and some annoying features that are either not Opt-In, or can't be turned off. For years ES was awesome, but eventually grew to a point where somebody had the bright idea of monetizing it in a way that pissed off its users. Today I wouldn't recommend it to anybody. However, disparaging all other file explorers based on ES's behavior is just anecdotal evidence at its finest. There are still a plethora of other file explorers that are awesome, secure, and reliable, with a lot more features than the BB10 file explorer.
    06-05-16 02:25 PM
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