[KenFletch]

Seems hardening Android is not so easy. Knox is not a success and Blackphone seems like a high profile PR campaign. $30M is not a lot of money for what they are claiming to be up to. But they clearly want gov agencies that will pay foolish amounts for a phone. But a lot of talk and no product. Pictures of another black rectangle is still all they have.

But the user will want a black iPhone.

My idea. Get a bunch of iPhones. Paint the scarey black and get a scary black theme on it and then play Candy Crush at work and facetime your "sources". Sorry, and branding "iSecure" the new tech we thought up that does all the stuff available else where but with lame names.

Should be able to get $1500-$2000 per unit depending on how many movies you need on your super secure phone

HTC TOUCH, Nokia-N97, BlackBerry Torch 9800, Z10

[lawguyman]

Had they been able to get legacy BBOS running on QNX, thing would have worked out much differently.

I doubt it. OS7 apps pretty much stink because for most of the BlackBerry legacy OS's life it was a step removed from an embedded OS.

Plus, legacy users aren't app users. They are message junkies.

BlackBerry did the right thing is abandoning legacy apps.

Posted via CB10

[birdman_38]

BlackBerry did the right thing is abandoning legacy apps.

But they didn't abandon legacy apps.

[spikesolie]

No, I'm saying that I'm pretty sure they made the wrong decision. Do you realize how many billions of dollars they've wasted on the new QNX based platform? They haven't made a cent of profit from it yet. Their stock price was almost $70 dollars the day they bought QNX. Now it is less than a pack of cigarettes where I live. You'd have to be kind of delusional to think that that was a good investment at this point.

And I'm saying how can you be sure they made the wrong decision. Do you have any figures on how much it would cost for them to build a secure android... until you can release such figures the points you make are mute to me

Posted via CB10

[JeepBB]

And I'm saying how can you be sure they made the wrong decision. Do you have any figures on how much it would cost for them to build a secure android... until you can release such figures the points you make are mute to me

Posted via CB10

I doubt the Android would need to be secure. As has been amply demonstrated by the success of vanilla Android, folk who buy consumer Android phones don't really care about security.
So the question becomes - how much to develop a vanilla Android over QNX. And, if that's too much, full Android without QNX.
Surely the purpose of this thought experiment is to gain a phone that might sell, not reinvent Knox on the cheap.
Alternatively, BB can stick to Plan A... and hope that BB10 suddenly gains traction and starts to sell.

[Thunderbuck]

Do you honestly think they took the iPhone seriously?

I'm going to go ahead and guess that you've never used a BlackBerry Storm 9530 before. I don't think anyone who owned a Storm could say that BlackBerry was taking the threat of the iPhone seriously.

The Storm was BlackBerry's response to the iPhone and the thing didn't even have WiFi, a feature that was present even on 2 year old Curves at the time of the Storm's release. Mike L can say whatever he'd like, but actions speak louder than words.

Ummm, the Storm had WiFi... Don't know why you think otherwise.

[Thunderbuck]

I doubt it. OS7 apps pretty much stink because for most of the BlackBerry legacy OS's life it was a step removed from an embedded OS.

Plus, legacy users aren't app users. They are message junkies.

BlackBerry did the right thing is abandoning legacy apps.

Posted via CB10

Yes, things would have been very different:
1) If they'd gotten BBOS running on PlayBook, it would have had PIM and e-mail at launch and would have been more tightly integrated with the phones. It also would have seen MUCH broader business adoption.
2) They would have had a QNX phone to market in the fall of 2011 and wouldn't have dropped all that market share
3) They wouldn't have alienated all the BBOS users who went on to other platforms before BB10 launched. There likely would have still been some erosion, but nowhere near what they've gotten down to now.

[Witmen]

Ummm, the Storm had WiFi... Don't know why you think otherwise.

Ummm, the Storm didn't have WiFi... Don't know why you think otherwise.



http://www.gsmarena.com/blackberry_storm_9530-2540.php

[Witmen]

I'm starting to think that it's a lost cause. This:

I doubt the Android would need to be secure. As has been amply demonstrated by the success of vanilla Android, folk who buy consumer Android phones don't really care about security.

has been explained numerous times on this forum, yet some people still fail to realize that BlackBerry isn't forced by law to build only "secure" devices. As far as I know, they are free to make a Android phone without making it secure if they'd like. The security argument is the only argument some folks have left. So they repeat it over and over like a broken record.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

It makes no sense to go Android. Improving and better integrating the Android runtime should be the focus thou

CB10'n it via da Z...30

Poaching in someone else garden is not a long term solution... what happens if they decide to put up an electric fence like validation against Google Services.

What they "need" is the three years that they PlayBook was on the market as a test device and builder of the ecosystem back..... Or they need developers to feel that the BB10 ecosystem is worth developing for. Right now the failures of the launch and the appearance of abandoning BB10 are going to make further development and updates very unlikely. Some believe that developer will want to provide users with the best experience so they'll work hard on BB10 regardless.....

It really all comes down to stability....

[JeepBB]

As I've previously posted: I firmly believe that the Android runtime is (ultimately) bad news for BB. IMO it will reduce the "will" of Devs to develop/maintain native apps, and the runtime will struggle to run all (or even the top-n) Android apps flawlessly and fast.

Right now the failures of the launch and the appearance of abandoning BB10 are going to make further development and updates very unlikely.

I've recently read a thread mentioning that updates to BBW apps seem to be slowing down. If true, that's my first point.

As to point 2: How many of the top-100 Android apps currently run under the BB10 runtime at full speed and offer full functionality?

Poaching in someone else garden is not a long term solution... what happens if they decide to put up an electric fence like validation against Google Services.

Several posters have noted the increasing use by Devs of the validation services provided by Google Play. I'm sure that will become more of an issue as Google becomes tired of other platforms eating their lunch.

[Witmen]

Even in the best case scenario, the runtime might not make much of a difference in BB10 adoption.

Tizen and Sailfish already run Android apps. Sailfish does it so well that even the Google play store works for installing the apps to sailfish OS. Heck, there is even talks of Microsoft thinking about adding Android apps to Windows Phone 8.

The ability to run Android apps is become fairly common among smartphone platforms.

[Thunderbuck]

Ummm, the Storm didn't have WiFi... Don't know why you think otherwise.



http://www.gsmarena.com/blackberry_storm_9530-2540.php

I can't help what that listing says. I had a Storm (yes, the original one). It had WiFi.

Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7

[birdman_38]

Ummm, the Storm had WiFi... Don't know why you think otherwise.

The Storm 2 had wi-fi. But we digress.

[lawguyman]

Yes, things would have been very different:
1) If they'd gotten BBOS running on PlayBook, it would have had PIM and e-mail at launch and would have been more tightly integrated with the phones. It also would have seen MUCH broader business adoption.
2) They would have had a QNX phone to market in the fall of 2011 and wouldn't have dropped all that market share
3) They wouldn't have alienated all the BBOS users who went on to other platforms before BB10 launched. There likely would have still been some erosion, but nowhere near what they've gotten down to now.

You're rewriting history too much here. I don't think the BBOS runtime was even announced before PlayBook was released. I recall it was announced after. I think they even demoed it.

Posted via CB10

[Witmen]

I can't help what that listing says. I had a Storm (yes, the original one). It had WiFi.

Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7

Dude are you on something or just trying to rewrite history? Maybe you just don't know what WiFi is.

I had both Storms and the original Storm most certainly did not have WiFi. Geez, spend five seconds googling it and you'll see that I'm right.

Here let me help out:

BlackBerry Storm Hands-On First Impressions! | CrackBerry.com

The Storm packs pretty much everything a smartphone user could want, minus one thing - WiFi.

Those are the words of some guy named Kevin Michaluk

[JeepBB]

Heck, there is even talks of Microsoft thinking about adding Android apps to Windows Phone 8.

I haven't heard much about that rumour recently. Hopefully the fact that WinPhone seems to be increasingly gaining traction and the AppStore growing with (by necessity, native) apps might save us WinPhone converts from that future.

I sincerely believe that trying to build a successful smartphone future based on poaching another platform's ecosystem is "unwise".

I do see how it seems superficially attractive to BB, among others, as a way to rapidly build an ecosystem and present their platform as offering more than it actually does... but it's all smoke and mirrors. And when Google smash the mirrors, and clear the smoke, as I believe they will one day do by implementing runtime verification for example... then, the game is up!

[Witmen]

I haven't heard much about that rumour recently. Hopefully the fact that WinPhone seems to be increasingly gaining traction and the AppStore growing with (by necessity, native) apps might save us WinPhone converts from that future.

I agree completely. It would be a huge mistake for Microsoft to bring on Android apps now that WP8's selection of native apps is growing nicely.

[Thunderbuck]

Dude are you on something or just trying to rewrite history? Maybe you just don't know what WiFi is.

I had both Storms and the original Storm most certainly did not have WiFi. Geez, spend five seconds googling it and you'll see that I'm right.

Here let me help out:

BlackBerry Storm Hands-On First Impressions! | CrackBerry.com



Those are the words of some guy named Kevin Michaluk

My memory's clearly failing me. I had one for two years, but that was a while ago. My bad.

[lawguyman]

http://m.crackberry.com/blackberry-p...pim-video-demo

This brings back bad memories.

Playbook was released in April 2011. They demoed this Java PIM suite in May and said it was going to be out in the summer. You can tell it is Java because all the apps come up in the same window and it says BlackBerry Player.

It turns out that they killed the Java Player and PIM apps were not released for another nine months.

So the reality is that BlackBerry could not have launched with a Java player anymore than it could have launched with 10.3. If I were to rewrite history, I'd have them launch with 10.3. Now that would have made a difference!

Posted via CB10

[LuvULongTime]

I agree completely. It would be a huge mistake for Microsoft to bring on Android apps now that WP8's selection of native apps is growing nicely.

And given the time, who's to say that BB10's ecosystem can't also grow just as nicely?

And before you argue that WP8 had no Android player, hence devs were forced to build native apps, I will stop you right there. Devs are not forced to build anything. Devs build apps where there is money (and market share). I would argue that Android apps will not impact WP8 native development. What will impact it is lack of market share. This lack of market share is what is hurting BB10 native app development, NOT the android player. If the Z3 can sell in significant numbers like the Lumia 520 did, then we may see more devs jump on board the BB10 train.

[JeepBB]

And given the time, who's to say that BB10's ecosystem can't also grow just as nicely?

And before you argue that WP8 had no Android player, hence devs were forced to build native apps, I will stop you right there. Devs are not forced to build anything. Devs build apps where there is money (and market share). I would argue that Android apps will not impact WP8 native development. What will impact it is lack of market share. This lack of market share is what is hurting BB10 native app development, NOT the android player. If the Z3 can sell in significant numbers like the Lumia 520 did, then we may see more devs jump on board the BB10 train.

Two things to consider:
1. The Z3 is twice the price of the L520.
2. People are basically lazy.

Point 1 implies that the Z3 will need to try harder to sell in significant numbers as its not priced at the "nice phone, and at that price I'll willingly take the risk" price of the L520, which sold in enormous quantities mostly IMO due to that cheap and cheerful price... And the funky bright coloured cases.
Point 2. Devs are people too. If there is a route to get their Android app onto BB10 with minimal effort, they'll likely take it. At best you'll get a port, at worst they'll offer the apk. What I believe is unlikely is that they'll take the time to re-write a native version of the app.
I'm convinced that the BB10 runtime will come to be seen as a curse rather than a gift in promoting growth of the BB10 ecosystem.

[birdman_38]

I'm convinced that the BB10 runtime will come to be seen as a curse rather than a gift in promoting growth of the BB10 ecosystem.

It already has in some circles.

[Originalloverman]

Dude are you on something or just trying to rewrite history? Maybe you just don't know what WiFi is.

I had both Storms and the original Storm most certainly did not have WiFi. Geez, spend five seconds googling it and you'll see that I'm right.

Here let me help out:

BlackBerry Storm Hands-On First Impressions! | CrackBerry.com



Those are the words of some guy named Kevin Michaluk

Hahaha haha haha LOL rotflmbo lol

Send from the amazing powers of the? ? Z30

[LuvULongTime]

Two things to consider:
1. The Z3 is twice the price of the L520.
2. People are basically lazy.

Point 1 implies that the Z3 will need to try harder to sell in significant numbers as its not priced at the "nice phone, and at that price I'll willingly take the risk" price of the L520, which sold in enormous quantities mostly IMO due to that cheap and cheerful price... And the funky bright coloured cases.
Point 2. Devs are people too. If there is a route to get their Android app onto BB10 with minimal effort, they'll likely take it. At best you'll get a port, at worst they'll offer the apk. What I believe is unlikely is that they'll take the time to re-write a native version of the app.
I'm convinced that the BB10 runtime will come to be seen as a curse rather than a gift in promoting growth of the BB10 ecosystem.

Disagree. If we ever get to a point where there are enough BB10 phones out there you will see devs create native versions of their apps. Why you ask? Because it is good business. Android apps will never run as smoothly as native, and at the end of the day devs will want to ensure their app is perceived as top notch in BB world. Not only that, but there will be some devs that do create native apps. And those that port will be competing with them. I know that when I am looking for an app in BB world I always take a native equivalent over a port.

Just my $0.02. We'll see how this all plays out.