[NotGoodIMO]

You're all forgetting one thing:
Blackberry has no interest in a consumer relationship in the US and they have not demonstrated any evidence that in the future they want one.

Totally agree. US smartphone market is totally rigged at this point. Apple, and big Android players have cornered media support. I also believe Blackberry is also a threat to agencies who want to spy on people. Sad part is that market in Canada is not better either for Blackberry. Blackberry is going to focus for consumers in emerging markets and for North America it's going to be basically enterprise. In my opinion, US market and media has done enough damage to the Blackberry brand and Blackberry should avoid the US consumer market like a plague if it wants to rebuild its brand image.

[medic22003]

I'd prefer they don't avoid the us market. I'm a new BlackBerry convert and that would derail me big time.

Posted via CB10

[Mr.G_under]

I agree only with the topic header in order to increase volume sales where necessary and needed.

On the issue of supplying for the basic consumer, BlackBerry would have to go to an OEM producer (namely, FOXCon) to develop at a price so inexpensive that the device may not carry the same value and durability of BlackBerry manufactured devices. Let's run a trial basis - Let BlackBerry produce a high spec device comparable to the HTC One M8 or S5 and analyse carrier response, pay attention to consumer response, Blog reports, the buzzz...when we get there as a brand, watch the sales numbers. Do you think it will alter market trends?

A lot of bloggers are already trying to discredit the Passport for its square screen, and the fact that there is still an App gap. Moreover, the Apps won't operate, function or perform as they already based on screen size and ratio. Do you think the same will occur with that comparable device. The first thing you will hear is that we are too late, and secondly, there is still the App Gap.

@ Mr BlackBerry - mate, don't you know you should never insure your device with the carrier? It is a total waste of money. Your best bet is to get home insurance which may be a bit more $$ than you currently pay but most reliable. Home insurance works the very same as auto. You get a replace once a claim is processed. With your check in hand, you purchase a new device.

[collinc93]

BlackBerry you should fix it by doing.....nothing...

[KingOfQwerty]

I am not from NA but can see the concern. I think this issue will slowly crop up elsewhere also.

It's brand positioning. Not every company makes great product, serves great and innovate great. But in current business trend, the one who positions brand effectively wins. Period.

To do that, one should get hold of strength and weakness of own and leverage on them effectively. That's exactly what BBRY under Chen is doing IMHO. Still they are small company compared to industry mammoths and they are trying to become niche company to make....profits.

However, I am still skeptical about how Chen views handset business. Passport and Classic, I believe, are pre-Chen era decision. Foxcon too. But silencing the feeble marketing efforts, departure of device oriented executives are probably his. He also had near-miss media incident on consumer focus, publicly set a target to continue device operations, talks about device market share and ridiculously set device prices.

After doing some house keeping like stopping Playbook support, selling real estate to bring the account books to a good shape, he is now concentrating what he does best. Software. Rushing of IoT, hiring of software centric executives, acquiring NantHealth, SecurSmart, not to forget emphasizing on Enterprise all points where he is heading. SaaS. BlackBerry try to emulate the S in SaaS not only for Software but also Security.

Thus said, device business is in the hands of BB Faithful. If Passport and Classic gets some momentum, at least on next Christmas you will get a Foxcon built one. If not, it will follow Nokia story.

Oh, how long will it need to turn around brand perception? Go ask Ford.

[vtpmt81]

Why do that?? Apple still doesn't include nfc chips, micro sd slots, or hdmi ports and charge a arm and a leg for their phones and people buy them. It has nothing to do with the hardware, as the z30 shows by performance tests it outperforms the latest androids. It's total word of mouth making it hard, no one is willing to try BlackBerry 10 for what ever reason, cool or not or whatever and the carriers are locked into deals with the other providers to buy x amount of devices just to be able to carry them. This leaves the providers with massive stock they have no choice but to shove down customers throats just to make money back. It's foolish. BlackBerry did this with the q5 and dropped the price of the z10 and people still made fun of and didn't buy it. It's the word of mouth hurting it the most. BlackBerry needs to find a way to show what they can do, a major marketing overhaul!!!!! And fast.

I agree that the BlackBerry stinks at marketing. What really hurt the BlackBerry brand years ago IMHO was that BBOS was difficult to develop for because of the hardware limitations of BBOS devices and the failures of the Storm/Storm 2/Tour 9630, etc. Too many consumers bought the Storm and were extremely underwhelmed and swore off BlackBerry. BlackBerry hasn't completely really gotten it right since - the Torch 9850/60 still had issues and then they release solid but mid range speced devices in the Z10 and Z30 and sell them for a high price on release.

The Z30 only outperforms the latest Androids on native browser speed and battery life. Its ecosystem/app performance, display, and camera aren't on par with 2013 or 2014 Android flagships. People go into a store and look at the Z30 next to the SGS5 or HTC One and the immediately the Z30 doesn't measure up looking at the display. Then the carrier reps steer people towards the SGS5 and BlackBerry is fighting an uphill battle.

[bakron1]

I feel that Blackberry is fighting an uphill battle, not only do their devices have to be the same and/or on par with the competition, but they have to be priced better so the consumer and enterprise customers will consider buying them.

I have said this many times in my previous post that anyone who is going to spend their hard earned money in today's economy want something that's "value added".

I think if the passport comes in at a reasonable price that corporate America and the enterprise sector will buy the device to upgrade their existing legacy devices.

You have to have something to get folks who have allot invested in their respective platforms a reason to cross over.

Forget about the security issue, that really only becomes a major issue in the government and higher end of the corporate sector. The majority of smaller companies feel the iPhone and Android devices have adequate security for their daily needs.

If Blackberry expects folks to buy their new devices, they will have to improve their warranty, customer service along with their pricing schemes or their devices will sit on the shelves and collect dust.

Apple and Android have embedded themselves into the culture here and they are not going to give that up anytime soon. I just hope the folks up there in Waterloo are paying attention to it??? Only time will tell.


Sent from my lovely z30 on T Mobile USA

[Dr J39]

For the record:
Just checked the Verizon website. I can get a new Z10 (or Z30, Q10, or Bold) with free overnight shipping.

[smoothrunnings]

I think the carriers themselves need to fix their relationship with BlackBerry, and not the other way around. T-Mobile this year tried to back stab BlackBerry by offering its BB10 clients trades for either it was iPhone or Android devices.

If BlackBerry intends to stay in the consumer space in North America, they are going to need to do a lot of work improving their carrier relationships.

Just to give an idea of my loyalty to the platform and my tech-know-how, i have used a Curve 8900, Bold 9000, Bold 9700 and 9780, Bold 9900 ,bought Playbook on release date, bought Z10 on release date, used a Z30 and planned to buy a Passport as soon as it becomes available. I wrote a few Legacy OS themes and apps and even 2 apps that i wrote in Cascades all currently published in app world.I am also able to repair most household and computing electronics that have software and hardware issues so for me to give up on a repair, it often means it is beyond repair or just won't be cost effective making the repairs.

I absolutely love the platform and even have a few acquaintances that call me Mr Blackberry but it has come to a point where it is impossible for me to continue with BB given the current state of carrier relations.

Here is why: My most recent phone, which happened to be the same Z10 i purchased on release date ,with a fully charged battery just powered off while i was in the middle of a task. To cut a long story short , it has been over 24 hours and the phone still has not powered on.

I have a side business that i absolutely cannot do without the use of the smartphone and after coming to the realization that my Z10 is beyond repair, i had to make a decision bearing in mind that my carrier no longer stocks BB phones and the few US carriers that do, don't carry stock in their stores.

Switching carriers just to get a BB10 phone was out of the question so i had to choose between ordering directly from ShopBlackBerry and putting my business on hold, given the ridiculously long time Digital River takes to deliver products, or walk into my T-Mobile store and walk out with an Android or iOS phone on the spot.

If i had a carrier that still stocked BB10 phones, it would still be a viable option as long as i have the extended warranty that delivers a replacement device within 24 hours. I kinda kicked myself a bit cos i cancelled the extended warranty on my Z10 prior to the incident but at the time i cancelled, the co-payment on filing a claim was almost the same amount of money i would use to buy a brand new Z10 . It just didn't seem like a financially sound decision paying a premium for insurance only to get a used replacement for about the same cost as a brand new one.

I ended up with a Samsung Galaxy S5 that i am not a fan of (yet) and it had me wondering how many people set out to purchase a BB10 device but end up with something else simply because they need their phone 'NOW', lets not even get started on the sales people who will discourage you from getting a BB to begin with. Once such people leave the platform, it will be even harder for those people to come back as Android and iOS are rich platform that will very easily suck you into their ecosystem.

Prior to getting the S5, i had also read on Crackberry that Android apps perform better on BB10 than on an actual Android phone.but i can tell you authoritatively that it is a bold faced lie. I use the same 7 apps that i used on BB10 on the S5 and the fluidity doesn't even come close. Android apps work better on Android phones period!!

Hoping things improve with the carriers but until then i would rather live with the Android experience knowing i have product support vs going back to BB10.

Who knows, things may very well improve in time for the release of the Passport and you can guess who will be picking one up

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

OP I agree that Carrier relationship is a big problem for BlackBerry and their road to being a profitable company.


But I'm not sure how important it is, with enterprise now being their focus. Enterprise only needs a Carrier to have the devices available, not even in stock. They don't need big displays, they don't need co-marketing. They really just need access to the devices and support for those devices. All BlackBerry needs really is for Carriers to take part of the load in offsetting the cost of device.

Maybe BlackBerry should change how they sell devices... Have they BES Account representative become the sales force for devices. Do like the prepaid providers do and buy coverage form different carriers and tie it into Plans that they offer to business? Give the phones away, but have a monthly fee for Airtime / Data / BES.... That would give IT departments a one source support sources for either Hardware Issues, BES Issues or Carrier type issues. If Boost, MetroPCS and Walmart can do it, why not BlackBerry?

[Supa_Fly1]

Carrier relationship in Canada is just fine. It's in the USA that is the issue.

When the passport arrives BlackBerry will have something they'll salivate for.

? BlackBerry Z30 ? If it Don't Make Dollars, It don't Make Sense ?

[DenverRalphy]

I think the carriers themselves need to fix their relationship with BlackBerry, and not the other way around.

Why on earth would the carriers need to do any such thing? It was BlackBerry themselves that created the mess they're currently in. And yet you think it's the carriers that need to kowtow to BBRY? Narcissistic much?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Carrier relationship in Canada is just fine. It's in the USA that is the issue.

When the passport arrives BlackBerry will have something they'll salivate for.

? BlackBerry Z30 ? If it Don't Make Dollars, It don't Make Sense ?

I guess that's why it took a bullying tactic via social media to get Rodgers to carry the Z30???

[DenverRalphy]

When the passport arrives BlackBerry will have something they'll salivate for.

C'mon... You've been around here long enough that you know this same sentiment was stated about every new device RIM/BBRY produced as far back as the Storm. And yet every time the carriers find themselves on the receiving end of a bad experience trying to move those devices. Do you honestly think that any of the US carriers are going to salivate over any BB devices any time in the foreseeable future? At best, any US carrier will be Cautiously Optomistic, and even that's not a safe bet.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[shupor]

For the record:
Just checked the Verizon website. I can get a new Z10 (or Z30, Q10, or Bold) with free overnight shipping.

Yes that is certainly one of the ways i could get one from a carrier but i also mentioned somewhere that switching carriers was not an option for me; it just isn't that serious. I have no plans of leaving T-mobile anytime soon as i pay about $65 a month off-contract with unlimited, uncapped everything after all taxes and fees.

[raino]

C'mon... You've been around here long enough that you know this same sentiment was stated about every new device RIM/BBRY produced as far back as the Storm. And yet every time the carriers find themselves on the receiving end of a bad experience trying to move those devices. Do you honestly think that any of the US carriers are going to salivate over any BB devices any time in the foreseeable future? At best, any US carrier will be Cautiously Optomistic, and even that's not a safe bet.

It's called promotion. Even Apple advertizes it's products and realizes they won't sell as many without concerted promotion. BB has failed miserably in promoting BB10, but can you honestly say carriers have done their part?

For the Galaxy S line, haven't sales been declining since the S III? Are carriers cautiously optimistic about this line of devices too now, given that they aren't selling as many as they used to? And what about the Nokia WP8 phones? Besides LTE, what's so great about the Lumia 635 that merited carriers picking it up instead of just continuing to sell the Lumia 520/521?

[DenverRalphy]

It's called promotion. Even Apple advertizes it's products and realizes they won't sell as many without concerted promotion. BB has failed miserably in promoting BB10, but can you honestly say carriers have done their part?

For the Galaxy S line, haven't sales been declining since the S III? Are carriers cautiously optimistic about this line of devices too now, given that they aren't selling as many as they used to? And what about the Nokia WP8 phones? Besides LTE, what's so great about the Lumia 635 that merited carriers picking it up instead of just continuing to sell the Lumia 520/521?

Marketing helps. But if you read through your own response... Take in to consideration that Samsung's promotions are at an all time high. Despite the most aggressive promotions they've ever done, they still lost sales marketshare to others like LG. Promotion does do a lot... But LG's move also demonstrates that Marketing isn't everything.

But that's all moot as applies to the carriers. The carriers know that they're going to sell through all those devices, regardless who's doing better.

Carriers don't give a damn about who has a better device. If it sells, then it sells. That's all they need to know.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[raino]

Carriers don't give a damn about who has a better device. If it sells, then it sells. That's all they need to know.

That may be true, but that's the kind of short sighted thinking that gives rise to bad Apples.

[TgeekB]

That's like any product though. Unless you run some kind of specialty shop, you sell what sells to make money. Bad apples included.

�To conquer oneself is a greater task than conquering others� Buddha

[raino]

That's like any product though. Unless you run some kind of specialty shop, you sell what sells to make money. Bad apples included.

No, that is not what I meant. I was talking about the monopolistic policies Apple has adopted due its market dominance. Carriers don't like that, and for quite a while there wasn't much they could do about it. But the tide is changing, as carriers are refusing to submit to the subsidy model. A two OEM market (not even OSes) is certainly not good for customers, and, in the long term, not good for the carriers either.

[Jtaylor1986]

Simple. Apple has leverage. BBRY doesn't. At one time, BBRY had leverage, but those days are years gone. If for whatever reason the sales of iOS devices bottomed out, they'd have to do the same.

Sure, lower upfront minimum purchases means lower upfront revenue... But beggars can't be choosers. As it is now, US carriers aren't carrying the devices in store at all. That's worse than the reduced requirement alternative.

Take the whole T-Mobile fiasco from last year... Despite the public display online between Legere's antics and Chen's/BBRY's response... Regardless what happened publicly, the real issue was that T-Mobile didn't want to enter in to any guaranteed purchase order with BBRY when their contract expired, because T-Mobile was losing money on the deal.. Legere's attempts to renegotiate met with zero results, and thus his attempt at publicizing the disparity (with mixed results depending on which side you rooted for). BBRY eventually cut ties, but that wasn't because T-Mobile was being unreasonable. It was because Legere refused to renew a contract that for all intents and purposes, would cost the company money. BBRY's requirements simply didn't allow for a mutually beneficial deal/contract.

If BBRY wants to re-emerge into the NA market, they're going to have to make some concessions.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

How do you know this? I haven't really heard anything of substance surrounding this issue from anyone before I read this.

[Paisley Pirate]

I do wish Blackberry would do one thing: get a phone or 2 out to the MVNOs. They had some 9900's a few months ago out with StraightTalk - BB7? Really? Are we back in 2010?

But tonight I was in Wal Mart and wandered down the phone pack aisles... in the GO Phones (ATT MVNO) was a Nokia 520 - Win8 with 4g, 8gb ram on board, and all the regular options - for $60. SIXTY. WTF? I realize that isn't the "high end" windows phone, but it has ok specs, and this is through a buy it and run it (granted, locked) but still, pay-go program.
I'm half tempted to get one for my wife (since she has a crappy non-smart phone that she is paying smart-phone GO Phone coverage for) just to have one available to play with.

There was another MVNO carrier (Family talk? OR was it ST? ) that had a Nokia 521 for $90... so it's out there...

My point is, I agree, Blackberry needs to mend some fences and rebuild some bridges... get some phones out to the masses for cheap that are decent enough to not sour new/returning customers, and make folks want a BB10 product.

[Supa_Fly1]

I guess that's why it took a bullying tactic via social media to get Rodgers to carry the Z30???

Z30 was a one off case! Plus it was not a high production volume device. If you know the facts even then it was on order not carried in stores for a few months which means BlackBerry did NOT have high volume. Verizon carried it in stores but that was a different model number with varying hardware and was produced in volume.

Rogers tells and Bell still carry the z10 until stock is depleted, Q10, Q5. Not issues like USA carrier stores have.

? BlackBerry Z30 ? If it Don't Make Dollars, It don't Make Sense ?

[Supa_Fly1]

C'mon... You've been around here long enough that you know this same sentiment was stated about every new device RIM/BBRY produced as far back as the Storm. And yet every time the carriers find themselves on the receiving end of a bad experience trying to move those devices. Do you honestly think that any of the US carriers are going to salivate over any BB devices any time in the foreseeable future? At best, any US carrier will be Cautiously Optomistic, and even that's not a safe bet.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

That's exactly my point. It is NOT a North American problem it's a USA problem. Reviews statistics of forum members government intake / orders of and even support by Canadians and providers here have always backed BlackBerry even during the last two yrs downfall from the USA hate of anything BlackBerry. It's cause it started within the usual.

? BlackBerry Z30 ? If it Don't Make Dollars, It don't Make Sense ?

[bakron1]

That's exactly my point. It is NOT a North American problem it's a USA problem. Reviews statistics of forum members government intake / orders of and even support by Canadians and providers here have always backed BlackBerry even during the last two yrs downfall from the USA hate of anything BlackBerry. It's cause it started within the usual.

? BlackBerry Z30 ? If it Don't Make Dollars, It don't Make Sense ?

Sorry but thats a bunch of crap, I frequent Canada in my business travels quite a bit and they are all abandoning the Blackberry brand for IOS and Android devices there too my friend. The bad press here in the USA is only a tiny portion of why Blackberry is in their current position.

If you check your memory banks and go back to the beginning, the folks here in the USA bought Blackberry devices by the millions and loved them. But, thats before they had competition and that changed everything. Bring in the poor marketing, lack of vision for the future by previous management and the list goes on and on.

The Blackberry image problem is not just confined to the USA, but the entire world for that matter. I am hoping that Mr Chen can improve that in the next few quarters, only time will tell.