08-16-11 01:33 PM
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  1. Dapper37's Avatar
    All these analyst are all over the board, they have no idea how things will work out. Most just want to sound important enough that there customers (the small guy) believe they know. One will say that company X has gone down due to the fact that a Goog take over is off the table, that same guy will say that RIM is up 10% because a takeover of RIM is now more likely. Wasn't Goog the most likely bidder of RIM. Its all BS and nobody knows. RIM's doing fine on there own!
    drjay868 likes this.
    08-16-11 10:33 AM
  2. West Coast Flavor's Avatar
    The only way this affects Rim is if Motto makes the Nexus Prime. Which most likely wont happen, because the screen is rumored to sport an hd amoled screen. (Samsung) I personally think Samsung makes garbage products. If made by Motto this phone could ruin the colt.. without bes. **** it might ruin the iPhone5

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by West Coast Flavor; 08-16-11 at 10:42 AM.
    08-16-11 10:36 AM
  3. 01itr's Avatar
    OK, I'll bite. All you do is sings RIM's praises. I'm here to provide balance to this blindly sickening love fest that is Crackberry. Now, would you like to answer my initial question, or are you just here to bash me for speaking the truth?
    For one example, let's take the seamless multitasking.
    08-16-11 10:42 AM
  4. 01itr's Avatar
    Why are you bashing another company to try and prove your point that the PlayBook has a powerful OS?
    Do you agree or disagree that Apple "dumbs down" their products so that they appeal to the masses?
    08-16-11 10:44 AM
  5. MPLexus301's Avatar
    I agree more with the Reuters point of view. This deal essentially creates second tier status for HTC, Samsung and others who use Android software. What's the point in building hardware to support software that's going to deem your product second best before it's even released? It won't take many online reviews or phone-to-phone comparisons for the general public to see that buying anything other than a Motorola/Android product is going to be second best. HTC and Samsung are grinning and shaking hands now because they don't have much of a choice, but you're crazy to think they aren't freaking out behind the scenes.

    I think this opens up tremendous opportunity for Microsoft to brand Windows as the next..."Android" type OS that can be ported to any number of different devices. That said, I'm still not a huge fan of that mentality where it's one OS, a few different versions, many different devices.

    Google and Apple will obviously continue to dominate the smartphone market for a while, but I think that as with any industry where you've essentially got a monopoly/oligopoly, consumers will eventually decide that they want something different and the competition will figure out how to capitalize on their unique strengths/consumer-perceived differences.

    If RIM continues to invest in QNX, innovate, purchase smaller shops like TAT, grow its capabilities and patent log, and remains profitable, I think they will be just fine. RIM continues to grow faster abroad than they are here, which is something else to remember. They also do their own hardware and software, which I think is something of a competitive advantage.

    A few years ago, when interviewed about a series of mergers and acquisitions in the automotive industry, as well as the fall of some of it's greatest names, one of the Japanese auto execs commented that he didn't see 2-3 main players on the world stage (as everyone else was predicting), but rather 5-6 companies that commanded most of the marketshare, with a few others pecking up the crumbs. Today, we've got Toyota, GM, Ford, VWAG, Hyundai/Kia, and to a lesser extent, Diamler Chrysler.

    Sound similar? I think the smartphone/tablet/tech market will be much the same, if for no other reason than the fact that two juggernauts gobbling up 80% of the marketshare just hasn't ever proven to last long term in any major industry. People tend to get sick of only having two options. You'll either get tired of one or the other, have a bad experience and want to go elsewhere, or just want something different. It will be up to RIM to follow the market and respond appropriately, but I think there will be good opportunity ahead.
    Last edited by MPLexus301; 08-16-11 at 11:04 AM.
    01itr, drjay868 and Nogrentain like this.
    08-16-11 11:01 AM
  6. avt123's Avatar
    Do you agree or disagree that Apple "dumbs down" their products so that they appeal to the masses?
    I disagree. "Dumb down" and "ease of use" is not the same thing. Apple prides themselves on making their products extremely consumer friendly. They don't pride themselves on making products that dumbasses can use.

    The word "simplify" seems more appropriate.
    08-16-11 11:04 AM
  7. 01itr's Avatar
    I agree more with the Reuters point of view. This deal essentially creates second tier status for HTC, Samsung and others who use Android software. What's the point in building hardware to support software that's going to deem your product second best before it's even released? It won't take many online reviews or phone-to-phone comparisons for the general public to see that buying anything other than a Motorola/Android product is going to be second best. HTC and Samsung are grinning and shaking hands now because they don't have much of a choice, but you're crazy to think they aren't freaking out behind the scenes.
    I think this is why Google is stressing that Moto is going to continue to run as an independent company. Google is smart, they know that they would make a little extra money via Moto if they favoured them and pushed new updates to Moto products first etc etc. But they also know that they would lose much more than they would ever gain since HTC/Samsung/etc would be angry and potentially begin abandoning their OS, which would be a massive hit.
    08-16-11 11:06 AM
  8. The_Engine's Avatar
    Another take on Motorola Acquisition impact to RIM:

    RIM: Signs of rebound brewing? | ZDNet
    08-16-11 11:07 AM
  9. Kansas City Mack's Avatar
    For one example, let's take the seamless multitasking.
    How does Android not, in your words, "seamlessly multitask".
    08-16-11 11:11 AM
  10. 01itr's Avatar
    I disagree. "Dumb down" and "ease of use" is not the same thing. Apple prides themselves on making their products extremely consumer friendly. They don't pride themselves on making products that dumbasses can use.

    The word "simplify" seems more appropriate.
    Semantics. Apple "simplifies" by "dumbing down" their product.

    ex. - iPhone only has one button in front. Simplifying it right? However, they are lacking the functionality that comes with the multiple buttons on say a Blackberry. The device is "dumbed down" in that you can no longer do these things, Apple says you don't need to.

    another ex. - iPhone has no removable battery. Well now you don't have to worry about your battery either! Pretty simplified, unless you wanted to replace your battery, or remove it for any reason. But Apple doesn't see a requirement for you to do this, so it removes the function, effectively "dumbing down" the device further.

    When you remove functionality so that it is easier for people to use without thinking, that is "dumbing down" the product in my eyes.
    Last edited by 01itr; 08-16-11 at 11:19 AM.
    08-16-11 11:13 AM
  11. Kansas City Mack's Avatar
    Semantics. Apple "simplifies" by "dumbing down" their product.

    ex. - iPhone only has one button in front. Simplifying it right? However, they are lacking the functionality that comes with the multiple buttons on say a Blackberry. The device is "dumbed down" in that you can no longer do these things, Apple says you don't need to.

    another ex. - iPhone has no removable battery. Well now you don't have to worry about your battery either! Pretty simplified, unless you wanted to replace your battery, or remove it for any reason. But Apple doesn't see a requirement for you to do this, so it removes the function, effectively "dumbing down" the device further.

    When you remove functionality so that it is easier for people to use without thinking, that is "dumbing down" the product in my eyes.
    Oh, so Blackberry makes you "feel" smarter?
    08-16-11 11:21 AM
  12. undone's Avatar
    When you remove functionality so that it is easier for people to use without thinking, that is "dumbing down" the product in my eyes.
    Like the different between a hammer and a nail gun.

    Most people only need a hammer.
    08-16-11 11:23 AM
  13. sivan's Avatar
    In other words, only real men are left using a Blackberry.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01itr likes this.
    08-16-11 11:26 AM
  14. avt123's Avatar
    Semantics. Apple "simplifies" by "dumbing down" their product.
    And I still disagree.

    ex. - iPhone only has one button in front. Simplifying it right? However, they are lacking the functionality that comes with the multiple buttons on say a Blackberry. The device is "dumbed down" in that you can no longer do these things, Apple says you don't need to.
    What can't you do? Long press is voice navigation. Two clicks is multitasking. One click is homescreen access. One click on the homescreen is universal search.

    I don't need a "back" button. I don't need an "end" or "call" button when it is built into the software. I don't need a menu button when I can just go into settings. What else are you trying to get out of buttons? Sounds like you are comparing it to a BB with a full physical keyboard worth of options. The devices are totally different.

    another ex. - iPhone has no removable battery. Well now you don't have to worry about your battery either! Pretty simplified, unless you wanted to replace your battery, or remove it for any reason. But Apple doesn't see a requirement for you to do this, so it removes the function, effectively "dumbing down" the device further.
    You can still charge the battery and use multiple juice packs if you have to. I don't see how this "dumbs down the device". It just lacks a feature. Lacking a feature doesn't mean "dumb down".

    When you remove functionality so that it is easier for people to use without thinking, that is "dumbing down" the product in my eyes.
    But how does no removable battery make the iPhone easier to use? Removable batteries were around long before the iPhone. People know how to do it. Apple just does not like the design. They do not like moving parts. They do not like extra pieces. Having a removable battery goes agains't Apples design. They want one solid device. There are options out their designed around this design. Juice packs for example.
    08-16-11 11:29 AM
  15. 01itr's Avatar
    How does Android not, in your words, "seamlessly multitask".
    Show me you running multiple applications side by side (ex. HD video running next to a youtube video)

    Maybe you should read up on QNX too: QNX - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Oh, so Blackberry makes you "feel" smarter?
    Fallacy: Red Herring

    You are ignoring my comment. We are not talking about Blackberry, we are talking about Apple. Unless of course you have conceded?
    08-16-11 11:29 AM
  16. 01itr's Avatar
    What can't you do? Long press is voice navigation. Two clicks is multitasking. One click is homescreen access. One click on the homescreen is universal search.

    I don't need a "back" button. I don't need an "end" or "call" button when it is built into the software. I don't need a menu button when I can just go into settings. What else are you trying to get out of buttons? Sounds like you are comparing it to a BB with a full physical keyboard worth of options. The devices are totally different.
    No I am comparing the 4(5 counting trackpad) buttons on the front of Blackberry, not including keyboard.

    You are trying to tell me that you can do the same thing with that one button than you could do with the whole slew of options available via the Menu button??

    You can still charge the battery and use multiple juice packs if you have to. I don't see how this "dumbs down the device". It just lacks a feature. Lacking a feature doesn't mean "dumb down".
    The fact that it removes functionality (being able to replace your battery), in order to make the device simpler (not having to worry about a removable back/battery) is imo dumbing the device down. There is no reason NOT to have a way to remove your batter yourself (without voiding the warranty of course). They don't like moving parts? Nothing moves unless you physically move it yourself... does that count? If so, then there are many things on the phone that can be considered "moving parts" (home button, volume buttons, silent switch, on/off switch, etc). Juice packs come with a removable straw (which can be swapped out for multiple hollow open-ended cylindrical apparati, something an iPhone can not be said to do.)
    08-16-11 11:37 AM
  17. Blacklatino's Avatar
    Another take on Motorola Acquisition impact to RIM:

    RIM: Signs of rebound brewing? | ZDNet
    Yeah, I read that one as well. It would be nice if it happens.
    08-16-11 11:39 AM
  18. m23haz's Avatar
    I actually think this is a good thing for RIM, I really do. Like a couple of people have stated already there is no way that only 2 or even 3 kinds of operating systems will exist. People like choice and only having 2 options is never going to work. I actually don't like any Motorola phones and I think their hardware is sub-par so if Google wants to tie their future to them I would think that RIM could care less. When RIM finally gets the opportunity to get QNX up and running like it is capable of I think that will emerge at the dominant third option in the marketplace. For some reason Windows phones never really seem to gain traction even though I know their new OS is pretty good.

    What RIM needs to do now is focus on QNX almost exclusively. I know that they are making the bulk of their cash overseas right now but they have to realize that if they don't get these "superphones" out quickly and make them a hit then they could be in serious trouble. I for one think they are going to do it and that their best days are ahead of them.
    08-16-11 11:41 AM
  19. Kansas City Mack's Avatar
    Show me you running multiple applications side by side (ex. HD video running next to a youtube video)

    Maybe you should read up on QNX too: QNX - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Fallacy: Red Herring

    You are ignoring my comment. We are not talking about Blackberry, we are talking about Apple. Unless of course you have conceded?
    Android (Honeycomb) has true multi-tasking. Google it.
    08-16-11 11:44 AM
  20. avt123's Avatar
    No I am comparing the 4(5 counting trackpad) buttons on the front of Blackberry, not including keyboard.

    You are trying to tell me that you can do the same thing with that one button than you could do with the whole slew of options available via the Menu button??
    No, I'm saying I don't need a menu button. What do I need out of a menu button on iOS? What benefit would a menu button have for me?

    I have used BBs for 3 years, and Android for 2 and iOS for 3 years. Two of these OS have a menu button. iOS has other ways of doing things without a menu button. And to **** with a trackpad. I do NOT need a trackpad when I have full touch navigation. If touch implementation is done right, it is not needed IMO.



    The fact that it removes functionality (being able to replace your battery), in order to make the device simpler (not having to worry about a removable back/battery) is imo dumbing the device down. There is no reason NOT to have a way to remove your batter yourself (without voiding the warranty of course). They don't like moving parts? Nothing moves unless you physically move it yourself... does that count? If so, then there are many things on the phone that can be considered "moving parts" (home button, volume buttons, silent switch, on/off switch, etc). Juice packs come with a removable straw (which can be swapped out for multiple hollow open-ended cylindrical apparati, something an iPhone can not be said to do.)
    Yes, any buttons count as mavable parts. It is one of the main reasons why there is only one button on the front of the device. There are only 4 other buttons (volume up, down, standby/power button and and mute toggle). It is part of the design. Accept it or don't accept it. It is a known fact.

    Great sarcasm. A juicepack is a case that has an extra battery in it for the iPhone. I believe it is available for other platforms as well.

    I get things done just as fast on my iPhone if not faster than I ever got anything done on my BBs. It is just different. Same goes for Android.
    08-16-11 11:55 AM
  21. 01itr's Avatar
    Android (Honeycomb) has true multi-tasking. Google it.
    Can it run HD video right next to watching a YouTube video simultaneously without lag? (Yes/No Question)
    08-16-11 11:57 AM
  22. daveycrocket's Avatar
    Avt123, 0litr, kansas City Mack, can you stop now please you will never agree.
    CousinIT likes this.
    08-16-11 11:58 AM
  23. The_Engine's Avatar
    Yeah, I read that one as well. It would be nice if it happens.
    Google is going to have to make some hard decisions soon about android. The open source thing is cute and all and for guys like us that will root and install leaked or rom'd software its great. But they will never get into Enterprise or government, and they will struggle to get media deals. I see a fork coming where they leave AOSP at like v4 for the open source community and proceed with a hardened version running on Motorola hardware to compete more directly with Apple. Both RIM and WP7 Hve an opportunity if rhat occurs.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by The_Engine; 08-16-11 at 12:09 PM.
    undone, Nogrentain and Blacklatino like this.
    08-16-11 12:06 PM
  24. 01itr's Avatar
    Great sarcasm. A juicepack is a case that has an extra battery in it for the iPhone. I believe it is available for other platforms as well.
    LMAO I honestly thought you were trying to make a moving parts analogy by using a literal juicebox as representation of the iPhone, my apologies.

    No, I'm saying I don't need a menu button. What do I need out of a menu button on iOS? What benefit would a menu button have for me?

    I have used BBs for 3 years, and Android for 2 and iOS for 3 years. Two of these OS have a menu button. iOS has other ways of doing things without a menu button. And to **** with a trackpad. I do NOT need a trackpad when I have full touch navigation. If touch implementation is done right, it is not needed IMO.
    You are missing my point. Here is an example using my iPhone4. Right now I am in the message view, having a conversation with someone. The only options I have for me to use is:

    1) Respond (whether by typing/pasting/camera)
    2) Edit (forward/delete)
    3) Copy a whole message
    4) Return to contact list

    Whereas if I was using a Blackberry, I would have a whole slew of options to choose from in order to manipulate the data I have on the screen or do whatever else can be done via the menu (perhaps changing my profile?) I'm not too sure since I don't have a BB right now...

    Regardless, I know that you CAN do things with your iPhone, but you can not say that there is the same, or more, functionality as a BB has. Here is a really simple example: File Management. How do I do that on my iPhone?
    08-16-11 12:07 PM
  25. 01itr's Avatar
    Avt123, 0litr, kansas City Mack, can you stop now please you will never agree.
    It is frustrating not being able to get my point across.

    The things I am trying to say are:

    1) The OSes power lies in its multitasking and ability to scale to work with multiple cores with ease

    2) Apple has effectively removed some forms of functionality from their devices in a successful effort to appeal to the masses want to worry about as little as possible
    08-16-11 12:09 PM
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