[Chuck Finley69]

Chuck, I usually like your points of view. But today, you must have had bad coffee.

You keep trying to come up with analogies to back up your interpretation of my posts. Maybe I'm just not being clear.

Yes, BBL can do whatever they want. The problem is that never works for them, their manufacturing partners and MOST importantly, the customer. It's why this whole situation exists.

With my stock at $7/sh and my new focus on IOT and automotive whatever, I'm selling my mobile phone keyboard patents so I can reinvest the profits into my "new" business that is supposedly making money, growing and his full support of shareholders. Otherwise, this is dead money.

The five year licensing deal is public record. Until it’s expired, BBMo has the rights to do whatever the agreement holds both parties to.

It’s not bad coffee. Theft of any kind pisses me off when rationalizations justifications start. Later on that...

BBL holds the patents and rented them. Whether I agree with the current phone situation or not, BBL has requirements it has to meet so that it can demand performance from it’s licensees. TCL has deep pockets so although BBMo and TCT have limited resources, BBL has confidence and I’m sure the experience that it’s contracts were TCL backed.

On theft issue... three weeks ago, in front of a leather shop location of my family’s, a methhead (literally) got caught shoplifting merchandise (sunglasses, cologne, pocketknife and phone accessories) but was caught by vendor across the walkway. Interestingly, nothing of mine(ours) was taken for once. Three people (deputy, vendor and market enforcer) couldn’t subdue guy about my size(5’7” 170lbs) and my teenagers were around. Instinctively, going over display table with large metal pole we keep for hanging merchandise, I encouraged the perp to quit resisting and turn over to be cuffed. The metal rod was bent in the process and I was pissed and told him so. He threatened me so I charged him like animal. My vendor friends laughed because I used to do this years ago in my teen years. We’ve been there almost 40 years. Turns out this guy will be returning to state prison for 5-7 years now. Crazy? Yes. Florida redneck? Both of us. I just hate theft because in that moment, it’s like catching person robbing where you live. If you don’t protect it, they come back again.....


Plus this happened to a fellow parish family last week. This is where I live and heavily involved with all my family and kids.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox...est-in-brandon

[Platinum_2]

The five year licensing deal is public record. Until it’s expired, BBMo has the rights to do whatever the agreement holds both parties to.

It’s not bad coffee. Theft of any kind pisses me off when rationalizations justifications start. Later on that...

BBL holds the patents and rented them. Whether I agree with the current phone situation or not, BBL has requirements it has to meet so that it can demand performance from it’s licensees. TCL has deep pockets so although BBMo and TCT have limited resources, BBL has confidence and I’m sure the experience that it’s contracts were TCL backed.

On theft issue... three weeks ago, in front of a leather shop location of my family’s, a methhead (literally) got caught shoplifting merchandise (sunglasses, cologne, pocketknife and phone accessories) but was caught by vendor across the walkway. Interestingly, nothing of mine(ours) was taken for once. Three people (deputy, vendor and market enforcer) couldn’t subdue guy about my size(5’7” 170lbs) and my teenagers were around. Instinctively, going over display table with large metal pole we keep for hanging merchandise, I encouraged the perp to quit resisting and turn over to be cuffed. The metal rod was bent in the process and I was pissed and told him so. He threatened me so I charged him like animal. My vendor friends laughed because I used to do this years ago in my teen years. We’ve been there almost 40 years. Turns out this guy will be returning to state prison for 5-7 years now. Crazy? Yes. Florida redneck? Both of us. I just hate theft because in that moment, it’s like catching person robbing where you live. If you don’t protect it, they come back again.....


Plus this happened to a fellow parish family last week. This is where I live and heavily involved with all my family and kids.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox...est-in-brandon

Chuck, to be clear, my posts did not support the idea of theft being acceptable, because it is not.

Sorry to hear about your recent involvement with the lower crust of society. They certainly keep things unsafe for the rest of us. Glad to see you took a stand. I wish more folks would.

[zephyr613]

The five year licensing deal is public record. Until it’s expired, BBMo has the rights to do whatever the agreement holds both parties to.

It’s not bad coffee. Theft of any kind pisses me off when rationalizations justifications start. Later on that...

BBL holds the patents and rented them. Whether I agree with the current phone situation or not, BBL has requirements it has to meet so that it can demand performance from it’s licensees. TCL has deep pockets so although BBMo and TCT have limited resources, BBL has confidence and I’m sure the experience that it’s contracts were TCL backed.

On theft issue... three weeks ago, in front of a leather shop location of my family’s, a methhead (literally) got caught shoplifting merchandise (sunglasses, cologne, pocketknife and phone accessories) but was caught by vendor across the walkway. Interestingly, nothing of mine(ours) was taken for once. Three people (deputy, vendor and market enforcer) couldn’t subdue guy about my size(5’7” 170lbs) and my teenagers were around. Instinctively, going over display table with large metal pole we keep for hanging merchandise, I encouraged the perp to quit resisting and turn over to be cuffed. The metal rod was bent in the process and I was pissed and told him so. He threatened me so I charged him like animal. My vendor friends laughed because I used to do this years ago in my teen years. We’ve been there almost 40 years. Turns out this guy will be returning to state prison for 5-7 years now. Crazy? Yes. Florida redneck? Both of us. I just hate theft because in that moment, it’s like catching person robbing where you live. If you don’t protect it, they come back again.....


Plus this happened to a fellow parish family last week. This is where I live and heavily involved with all my family and kids.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox...est-in-brandon

Should have called Michael Weston...

Sorry, just had to break the cycle here, otherwise it would be "popcorn gettin' time" for me..

[Chuck Finley69]

Should have called Michael Weston...

Sorry, just had to break the cycle here, otherwise it would be "popcorn gettin' time" for me..

LMAO Thanks Zephyr I snapped outta it

[zephyr613]

LMAO Thanks Zephyr I snapped outta it

There ya go brother, have a beer on me

[Chuck Finley69]

Chuck, to be clear, my posts did not support the idea of theft being acceptable, because it is not.

Sorry to hear about your recent involvement with the lower crust of society. They certainly keep things unsafe for the rest of us. Glad to see you took a stand. I wish more folks would.

Gotcha ... we’re good...

[pnoble428]

Regardless of whether BlackBerry is holding onto their patents while failing to cater to the niche market that falls under those patents, the blame is on Unihertz for presenting a product that would be infringing on BlackBerry patents.

They could have paid to use the patents or presented a product from the beginning that wouldn't be in danger of patent infringement, but either way this seems like a case of them being unprepared to bring their product to market. Now they have left all of the Kickstarter backers, myself included, to decide whether they still want the Titan without a track pad, which is the specific reason many of us decided to order in the first place.

[howarmat]

Im not sure what anyone expects. The Titan clearly is similar to the passport in many ways and was advertising some features that clearly similar as well. BB is not stupid and they can/will/should protect their IP. If doesnt matter if BB arent going to produce a device or not to "fill the need" that some posters want. You cant just steal someones IP just because they are not using it.

[brookie229]

them being unprepared

Probably indicative of such a tiny company. They don't even have a legal team?

[pnoble428]

Probably indicative of such a tiny company. They don't even have a legal team?

Potentially, but that only makes them look even worse if they attempted this without any legal advise or backup regarding patents that seem to be common knowledge with PKB enthusiasts.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Regardless of whether BlackBerry is holding onto their patents while failing to cater to the niche market that falls under those patents, the blame is on Unihertz for presenting a product that would be infringing on BlackBerry patents.

They could have paid to use the patents or presented a product from the beginning that wouldn't be in danger of patent infringement, but either way this seems like a case of them being unprepared to bring their product to market. Now they have left all of the Kickstarter backers, myself included, to decide whether they still want the Titan without a track pad, which is the specific reason many of us decided to order in the first place.

Bottom line is even if BlackBerry is free to license they keyboard IP (I suspect that they are).... there is a minimum buy in, and I don't think Unihertz has enough to get BlackBerry to pick up the phone. (maybe 10K units, maybe $10 a device over two years)

But they must protect their IP, or else they have no hope of anyone paying them for it in the future. Yes odds are nobody is going to anyway, but you just don't give stuff away.

[pnoble428]

Bottom line is even if BlackBerry is free to license they keyboard IP (I suspect that they are).... there is a minimum buy in, and I don't think Unihertz has enough to get BlackBerry to pick up the phone. (maybe 10K units, maybe $10 a device over two years)

But they must protect their IP, or else they have no hope of anyone paying them for it in the future. Yes odds are nobody is going to anyway, but you just don't give stuff away.

Oh I agree entirely. I'm saying that Unihertz was completely foolish to be unprepared for this happening in one way or another, be it avoiding the patent issues from the beginning or attempting to buy in to use them. If they didn't know about them, that only makes them look worse.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Oh I agree entirely. I'm saying that Unihertz was completely foolish to be unprepared for this happening in one way or another, be it avoiding the patent issues from the beginning or attempting to buy in to use them. If they didn't know about them, that only makes them look worse.

Jio Phone 2.... is a clear clone of a Palm device, but either the holder of the Palm patents (HP?) didn't care, or Palm never bother to patent the designs.

Yes Uhinertz was naive to copy the Passport so blatantly...

[the_boon]

The five year licensing deal is public record. Until it’s expired, BBMo has the rights to do whatever the agreement holds both parties to.

It’s not bad coffee. Theft of any kind pisses me off when rationalizations justifications start. Later on that...

BBL holds the patents and rented them. Whether I agree with the current phone situation or not, BBL has requirements it has to meet so that it can demand performance from it’s licensees. TCL has deep pockets so although BBMo and TCT have limited resources, BBL has confidence and I’m sure the experience that it’s contracts were TCL backed.

On theft issue... three weeks ago, in front of a leather shop location of my family’s, a methhead (literally) got caught shoplifting merchandise (sunglasses, cologne, pocketknife and phone accessories) but was caught by vendor across the walkway. Interestingly, nothing of mine(ours) was taken for once. Three people (deputy, vendor and market enforcer) couldn’t subdue guy about my size(5’7” 170lbs) and my teenagers were around. Instinctively, going over display table with large metal pole we keep for hanging merchandise, I encouraged the perp to quit resisting and turn over to be cuffed. The metal rod was bent in the process and I was pissed and told him so. He threatened me so I charged him like animal. My vendor friends laughed because I used to do this years ago in my teen years. We’ve been there almost 40 years. Turns out this guy will be returning to state prison for 5-7 years now. Crazy? Yes. Florida redneck? Both of us. I just hate theft because in that moment, it’s like catching person robbing where you live. If you don’t protect it, they come back again.....


Plus this happened to a fellow parish family last week. This is where I live and heavily involved with all my family and kids.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox...est-in-brandon

Got it, except that with all due respect, all the theft analogies you presented are way off from this patent infringement case.

Why?

The simple answer is that in the cases you described, the theft is of some type of physical property of some sort, meaning if someone resides in a vacated place without permission or steals any object, the owner of said object/property CANNOT benefit from it while said object/property is in thief's possession.

However, in the Unihertz vs BBL patent case, we're talking intellectual property.
Just because the Titan exists, it does NOT prevent BBL from using those very same patents SIMULTANEOUSLY by making their own device.

Meaning at any given point, there could be BOTH the BB rip off and the original.


This is why I'm a bit disappointed at your analogies as they're just off.

[conite]

Got it, except that with all due respect, all the theft analogies you presented are way off from this patent infringement case.

Why?

The simple answer is that in the cases you described, the theft is of some type of physical property of some sort, meaning if someone resides in a vacated place without permission or steals any object, the owner of said object/property CANNOT benefit from it while said object/property is in thief's possession.

However, in the Unihertz vs BBL patent case, we're talking intellectual property.
Just because the Titan exists, it does NOT prevent BBL from using those very same patents SIMULTANEOUSLY by making their own device.

Meaning at any given point, there could be BOTH the BB rip off and the original.


This is why I'm a bit disappointed at your analogies as they're just off.

That's not how IP works. It's a real thing that cost millions upon millions to develop. It's theft pure and simple.

Otherwise people would reverse engineer everything and no one would bother spending all the money to develop something in the first place.

[SteinwayTransitCorp]

No it's actually a BlackBerry problem. The anti-Unihertz sentiment is curious. It is BlackBerry that has allowed TCL to hold the brand hostage - while allowing other licensing to dry up in the rest of the world. Clearly BlackBerry Ltd has absolutely no desire to provide for its customers in the handset market. All Unihertz is doing is filling a void left by a company that has clearly lost all interest. If all you need is an outdated Keyx or a boring Motion from ebay, then BlackBerry Mobile is doing it's job. For eveyone else, it is failing you badly.

No one company is holding the other HOSTAGE, this is called business. I invented it, invested lots of cash paid for and received patents to protect it. You want to use pay me to do so.....very simple. The problem is today everybody thinks it ok to steal intellectual property and make money doing it.

PS I jumped in on the Titan

[cribble2k]

No more touch keyboard and the screen just got even bigger. Unihertz is saying it is to prevent issues with existing patents.

Sitation needed..

[rthonpm]

Jio Phone 2.... is a clear clone of a Palm device, but either the holder of the Palm patents (HP?) didn't care, or Palm never bother to patent the designs.

Yes Uhinertz was naive to copy the Passport so blatantly...

Or HP just wanted to forget the entire debacle that was their ownership of Palm. Likely between the sale of WebOS and as much IP as they could, there was nothing left in any single company's portfolio to sue Jio for.

As for the Titan, it seems ridiculously amateurish to release such a blatant clone of a device as they plan to. Likely the final product will be quite different than the original renders.

[troglodrew]

I totally understand intellectual property and understand why it's important to protect. my issue is exactly what IP is Titan infringing upon? Obscenely wide, square screened phones? even though BlackBerry keeps referring to titan as a passport clone, it really isn't. no more than any qwerty phone in the early part of this decade was a Bold clone. Besides, the main selling point seems to be the ability to run android on a square screen -- something BlackBerry R/D was either never able to do, or unwilling to do.

[conite]

I totally understand intellectual property and understand why it's important to protect. my issue is exactly what IP is Titan infringing upon? Obscenely wide, square screened phones? even though BlackBerry keeps referring to titan as a passport clone, it really isn't. no more than any qwerty phone in the early part of this decade was a Bold clone. Besides, the main selling point seems to be the ability to run android on a square screen -- something BlackBerry R/D was either never able to do, or unwilling to do.

Capacitive-touch keyboard.


They might also be caught with some underlying keyboard tech as well - both hardware and software covered by IP.

[troglodrew]

Sitation needed..

Unihertz Titan Facebook group.

[bb10adopter111]

I wouldn't buy a device from a company who wasn't sophisticated enough to make sure it wasn't encroaching on patents without a license. What other corners are they cutting? I certainly would not trust them not to ship a phone rife with malware!

Posted with my trusty Z10

[app_Developer]

.With my stock at $7/sh and my new focus on IOT and automotive whatever, I'm selling my mobile phone keyboard patents so I can reinvest the profits into my "new" business that is supposedly making money, growing and has full support of shareholders. Otherwise, this is dead money.

Sure, but that assumes an interested buyer willing to pay non-trivial money.

And that buyer probably would have gone after Unihertz anyway.

[the_boon]

That's not how IP works. It's a real thing that cost millions upon millions to develop. It's theft pure and simple.

Otherwise people would reverse engineer everything and no one would bother spending all the money to develop something in the first place.

So... Apple could file lawsuits against all the other slab manufacturers saying they stole its patents since it was (sort of) the first touchscreen smartphone ever?

[Bla1ze]

So... Apple could file lawsuits against all the other slab manufacturers saying they stole its patents since it was (sort of) the first touchscreen smartphone ever?

You say that as if they haven't tried going after some big folks for it. They used it against Motorola, Google, and Samsung.