02-02-13 12:21 PM
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  1. katiepea's Avatar
    Android users are obsessed with specs... How is it that the iPhone 5 with even less specs than the Z10 can outperform almost all if not all the souped up Android handsets available today?

    The synergy between the hardware and software is what delivers a compelling experience. I've also seen many cameras with smaller megapixel counts outperform their more illustrious competitors due to superior image processing and lenses. High megapixel count is not a barometer if picture quality!

    This spec talk is very much akin to people who have self esteem issues because they are seriously lacking in the pants.
    Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound? I'm am android user, I'm not obsessed with specs. Suggesting that people who discuss tech aspects are lacking in genetalia only entirely discredits yourself. What a silly person you are. My two year old HTC is running android 4.2.1, the latest version of android. Its smooth as silk. The level of ignorance about topics which people here do not understand is draining. Making gross assumptions about communities of tech followers is downright low brow. The continuation of apologists always go down with the ship. Kevin himself said the specs should have been a little better. Sheesh.
    02-01-13 01:23 AM
  2. Angelo_Campher's Avatar
    Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound? I'm am android user, I'm not obsessed with specs. Suggesting that people who discuss tech aspects are lacking in genetalia only entirely discredits yourself. What a silly person you are. My two year old HTC is running android 4.2.1, the latest version of android. Its smooth as silk. The level of ignorance about topics which people here do not understand is draining. Making gross assumptions about communities of tech followers is downright low brow. The continuation of apologists always go down with the ship. Kevin himself said the specs should have been a little better. Sheesh.
    If the mobile experience is not dependent on specs then why bring up the topic of manufacturers releasing phones with "FAR" superior specs? Implying that the phone is obsolete before it was even released...

    Furthermore, you haven't addressed my actual points about specs and megapixel counts not being an issue, instead you jump straight to the genitalia comment... Go figure.

    I ain't an apologist either. I have and continue to use BlackBerry and Apple products... I've had a bad experience on Android with a device (replaced twice in a matter of months) which at the time was said to be the be all and end all of specs. It failed miserably when compared to the iPhone 4S.

    So, yes I am in a position to question this specs race Android manufacturers have entered into. Do we really need quad or octa core processors in phones at this point in time? ****, computers don't even have octa core processors yet...
    maddie8211, Fr3lncr and zyben like this.
    02-01-13 01:48 AM
  3. texazzpete's Avatar
    Android users are obsessed with specs... How is it that the iPhone 5 with even less specs than the Z10 can outperform almost all if not all the souped up Android handsets available today?

    The synergy between the hardware and software is what delivers a compelling experience. I've also seen many cameras with smaller megapixel counts outperform their more illustrious competitors due to superior image processing and lenses. High megapixel count is not a barometer if picture quality!
    .
    This is wrong. The iPhone 5 is much more powerful than the Z10. It has a more powerful CPU and a MUCH more powerful GPU.
    There's less RAM and screen resolution on the iPhone 5 but it has a way superior camera and better brightness and viewing angles than the Z10.

    The A5X in the iPhone 5 crushes the S4 in the Z10 in every single benchmark under the sun, GPU and CPU. There are very few phones out now with faster CPU than the iPhone 5 and there's no single mobile phone out there that has a better GPU than the iPhone 5.

    Seriously, do you guys not follow up on tech news?
    02-01-13 02:30 AM
  4. katiepea's Avatar
    This is wrong. The iPhone 5 is much more powerful than the Z10. It has a more powerful CPU and a MUCH more powerful GPU.
    There's less RAM and screen resolution on the iPhone 5 but it has a way superior camera and better brightness and viewing angles than the Z10.

    The A5X in the iPhone 5 crushes the S4 in the Z10 in every single benchmark under the sun, GPU and CPU. There are very few phones out now with faster CPU than the iPhone 5 and there's no single mobile phone out there that has a better GPU than the iPhone 5.

    Seriously, do you guys not follow up on tech news?
    this is pretty much true, unfortunately all they've managed to do with it is give you the same boring grid launcher since the original iphone release. thankfully 3rd party developers exist.
    02-01-13 02:50 AM
  5. Angelo_Campher's Avatar
    This is wrong. The iPhone 5 is much more powerful than the Z10. It has a more powerful CPU and a MUCH more powerful GPU.
    There's less RAM and screen resolution on the iPhone 5 but it has a way superior camera and better brightness and viewing angles than the Z10.

    The A5X in the iPhone 5 crushes the S4 in the Z10 in every single benchmark under the sun, GPU and CPU. There are very few phones out now with faster CPU than the iPhone 5 and there's no single mobile phone out there that has a better GPU than the iPhone 5.

    Seriously, do you guys not follow up on tech news?
    No I'm talking about the Galaxy S3's quad core Exynos 4 processor which doesn't offer a better experience than Apples A6 as well as a plethora of other Android phones which have had the kitchen sink thrown at it.

    Companies like Apple and BlackBerry, due to the vertical integration and closed systems, can offer a very fast experience with less specs.

    I really don't see the need for quad and octa processors right now.
    02-01-13 02:51 AM
  6. southlander's Avatar
    I hope so. We'll see. But it could also work against rim. Depends on what part of the market you are selling to. People who have a very hard time with tech. Or people that are gadget lovers. iphone is dead simple but also boring. I know a lot of older people that find it easy to use. They never close any apps and just do the home button/launch routine over and over. These folks might be intimidated by all the gestures.

    Sent from my BlackBerry Torch 9850 using Tapatalk
    02-01-13 03:06 AM
  7. texazzpete's Avatar
    No I'm talking about the Galaxy S3's quad core Exynos 4 processor which doesn't offer a better experience than Apples A6 as well as a plethora of other Android phones which have had the kitchen sink thrown at it.

    Companies like Apple and BlackBerry, due to the vertical integration and closed systems, can offer a very fast experience with less specs.

    I really don't see the need for quad and octa processors right now.
    A5X still outperforms the Quad core Exynos 4 in the international S3 in several CPU benchmarks and thoroughly crushes it in all GPU benchmarks.
    Quad core (or more powerful ) Chipsets are pretty welcome as mobile apps become more complex. You folks that use OS7 devices as your sole mobile device were effectively being left behind. Other popular platforms have several demanding apps and games (like AutoCAD, some 3D modeling apps and many complex 3D games) that require increased processing horsepower. More advanced GPUs are required to drive the increasingly higher resolution displays on the market.
    there's a reason why Anandtech's review of the 3rd generation iPad stated that performance was being constrained by the slower CPU.

    Mobile gaming is become VERY big. It takes beefier hardware now to render graphically stunning games on iPhone and android that rival games on the PS Vita.

    I agree that Android OEMs are making it a battle of specs now...but specs aren't always overkill.
    Rickroller likes this.
    02-01-13 03:13 AM
  8. Angelo_Campher's Avatar
    A5X still outperforms the Quad core Exynos 4 in the international S3 in several CPU benchmarks and thoroughly crushes it in all GPU benchmarks.
    Quad core (or more powerful ) Chipsets are pretty welcome as mobile apps become more complex. You folks that use OS7 devices as your sole mobile device were effectively being left behind. Other popular platforms have several demanding apps and games (like AutoCAD, some 3D modeling apps and many complex 3D games) that require increased processing horsepower. More advanced GPUs are required to drive the increasingly higher resolution displays on the market.
    there's a reason why Anandtech's review of the 3rd generation iPad stated that performance was being constrained by the slower CPU.

    Mobile gaming is become VERY big. It takes beefier hardware now to render graphically stunning games on iPhone and android that rival games on the PS Vita.

    I agree that Android OEMs are making it a battle of specs now...but specs aren't always overkill.
    The A5X doesn't out benchmark the Exynos 4. The A6 does...

    And I was not left behind because I have no loyalty to any particular brand so I switched to Android and then Apple.

    From what I've seen the Z10 handles anything thrown at it quite well so does the PlayBook WiFi with even worse specs.
    02-01-13 03:18 AM
  9. texazzpete's Avatar
    The A5X doesn't out benchmark the Exynos 4. The A6 does...

    And I was not left behind because I have no loyalty to any particular brand so I switched to Android and then Apple.

    From what I've seen the Z10 handles anything thrown at it quite well so does the PlayBook WiFi with even worse specs.
    A5X beats Exynos 4 in Sunspider, for one. As far as GPU is concerned, A5x trounces the Exynos 4 GPU by a large margin.

    it's said In reviews now that the Z10 still takes up to twice or three times as long as flagship Android and iOS phones to boot up...and Engadget says it took nearly 30 secs to shut down. Does anyone here who has a Z10 confirm this?
    02-01-13 05:09 AM
  10. i7guy's Avatar
    This is wrong. The iPhone 5 is much more powerful than the Z10. It has a more powerful CPU and a MUCH more powerful GPU.
    There's less RAM and screen resolution on the iPhone 5 but it has a way superior camera and better brightness and viewing angles than the Z10.

    The A5X in the iPhone 5 crushes the S4 in the Z10 in every single benchmark under the sun, GPU and CPU. There are very few phones out now with faster CPU than the iPhone 5 and there's no single mobile phone out there that has a better GPU than the iPhone 5.

    Seriously, do you guys not follow up on tech news?
    Know what? In my opinion better specs don't translate into a better user experience. Blackberry has had it over iphone for years in the efficiency department. Getting and responding to email is so much easier on my blackberry than on an iphone. I can't wait to get my hands on a BB10 at launch. The S2 although rock solid, even after being dropped on cement a few times, is still ticking. The iphone as a media consumption device is great, as a phone, not so much (imo). I'm still pretty much old school, I use my cell phone as a cell phone and email device. I use my ipad to browse.

    As far as the camera, Crackberry's review seems to show the Z10 camera ahead of the iphone. At any rate, another non-issue for me.
    morganplus8 likes this.
    02-01-13 06:31 AM
  11. texazzpete's Avatar
    Know what? In my opinion better specs don't translate into a better user experience. Blackberry has had it over iphone for years in the efficiency department. Getting and responding to email is so much easier on my blackberry than on an iphone. I can't wait to get my hands on a BB10 at launch. The S2 although rock solid, even after being dropped on cement a few times, is still ticking. The iphone as a media consumption device is great, as a phone, not so much (imo). I'm still pretty much old school, I use my cell phone as a cell phone and email device. I use my ipad to browse.

    As far as the camera, Crackberry's review seems to show the Z10 camera ahead of the iphone. At any rate, another non-issue for me.
    Responding to emails faster is not the entirety of 'user experience' for most people. I think the market has convincingly shown that for most people, killer apps and games, boot times less than 30 seconds and higher stability and reliability are much better indicators of top notch user experience.

    If you truly think Crackberry's review and sample photos showed the Z10 as anything other than the worst of the pack, you either need a trip to SpecSavers or you'll need to read the review again when sober.
    bobauckland likes this.
    02-01-13 08:19 AM
  12. aniym's Avatar
    No place like Home?

    There is a huge problem with others trying to change to the type of operating system BlackBerry is using. Both the iPhone and Android use an operating system revolving around the HOME button. It is a complete, monumental, change to get rid of that button, yet try and maintain backwards compatibility with older software.

    They can add some swipe commands but they can't change entirely. They are hobbled by 6 year old operating systems, initially designed for far less powerful hardware.

    BB10 was written from the ground up as a keyless operating system, incorporating the best features and lessons of the past 6 years.
    Most smartphones phones prior to 2007 were BB ripoffs (Samsung Blackjack, Moto Q) or were highly specialized phones with stylus driven operation (Dell axim, HP iPAQ). that didn't stop a certain company from going with an entirely new UI/UX combo and become successful.

    Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
    02-01-13 02:50 PM
  13. i7guy's Avatar
    Responding to emails faster is not the entirety of 'user experience' for most people. I think the market has convincingly shown that for most people, killer apps and games, boot times less than 30 seconds and higher stability and reliability are much better indicators of top notch user experience.

    If you truly think Crackberry's review and sample photos showed the Z10 as anything other than the worst of the pack, you either need a trip to SpecSavers or you'll need to read the review again when sober.
    Know what most people do at work? Right, emails. Actually if my S2 had a decent browser I probably wouldn't even have an ipad. But that's me. Every person I know who has switched from BB to iphone says the same thing about the emails. I'm now hearing some of these people will ditch the iphone to go back to Blackberry.

    I don't care how much apple is worth. There are times I go round and round on the ipad trying to do something after two years of owning that silly device. I want an phone that first and foremost is a great phone; second email management is very important to me, then browsing then apps. Since I only reboot my S2 once every few months, the long reboot times don't bother me.

    It's a good thing the ipad reboots are fast, every time I switch wifi networks it needs a reboot...and I'm not the only one this happens to. My ipad is not convincing more stable than my S2, especially with the exchange issues ios caused.

    Maybe you as well need glasses or a rest from the bottle. All the best.
    aragone79 likes this.
    02-01-13 09:07 PM
  14. Shanerredflag's Avatar
    Blah blah blah...please go try one (for more than 10 minutes)...In fact, BB would be smart to do a loaner program where everyone could try for a month (cuz data is data now, just activate onto your plan)...then go back to you S3 or whatever. I'll bet you come on over....and don't use the app excuse cuz you can side load any app you want.

    If you try it yourself then and only then can you have an opinion worth anything.
    02-01-13 09:19 PM
  15. mikeo007's Avatar
    and don't use the app excuse cuz you can side load any app you want.
    Lol
    02-01-13 09:24 PM
  16. texazzpete's Avatar
    Know what most people do at work? Right, emails. Actually if my S2 had a decent browser I probably wouldn't even have an ipad. But that's me. Every person I know who has switched from BB to iphone says the same thing about the emails. I'm now hearing some of these people will ditch the iphone to go back to Blackberry.

    I don't care how much apple is worth. There are times I go round and round on the ipad trying to do something after two years of owning that silly device. I want an phone that first and foremost is a great phone; second email management is very important to me, then browsing then apps. Since I only reboot my S2 once every few months, the long reboot times don't bother me.

    It's a good thing the ipad reboots are fast, every time I switch wifi networks it needs a reboot...and I'm not the only one this happens to. My ipad is not convincing more stable than my S2, especially with the exchange issues ios caused.

    Maybe you as well need glasses or a rest from the bottle. All the best.
    1. people send emails at work...mostly from those big beige boxes called desktops and smaller stuff called Laptops. know of these? Unless you're on the move, most people prefer to use their computers to send emails. unless you're seriously suggesting the iPhones and Android phones cannot send emails or connect to an Activesync Exchange to receive push email, you don't really have a point there.


    2. If your iPad reboots anytime you change wifi network, it's clearly a fault with YOUR unit and this should have since been taken to the Apple Store for a quick replacement. why complain about something that's your fault?


    The iPhone and any decent Android phone now do great telephony with good reception and good call quality, they do email pretty well and have loads of apps. If the email experience on iOS and Android is good enough for Yahoo, you'd better believe its very good and more than adequate for use.
    02-01-13 11:47 PM
  17. texazzpete's Avatar
    Maybe you as well need glasses or a rest from the bottle. All the best.
    For what it's worth, I am truly sorry for that crack about SpecSavers and the bottle. It was in bad taste and I apologize. You'd think I'd know better since I use glasses myself.
    02-02-13 12:21 AM
  18. simu31's Avatar
    This thread has some very entrenched views... especially for people who (for the most part) have not even spent 5 minutes with the Z10 or BB10.

    The OP's point was sort of valid, in that if you take it as: if iOS or Android would want to change their user interface, it would take a lot more work than what is built into BB10.

    No matter how you want to interpret things, Android does need higher specs to make it run as smoothly as other OSs from vertically integrated companies. It's just a fact. Pick up an Android phone with the same specs as (for example) an iPhone, and the Android will be ... "lacking" in performance. It doesn't make it a bad device, it just isn't as smooth.

    Now if everyone can play nicely, maybe we could get back to the original discussion.

    Si.
    02-02-13 06:34 AM
  19. infamyx's Avatar
    This thread has some very entrenched views... especially for people who (for the most part) have not even spent 5 minutes with the Z10 or BB10.

    The OP's point was sort of valid, in that if you take it as: if iOS or Android would want to change their user interface, it would take a lot more work than what is built into BB10.

    No matter how you want to interpret things, Android does need higher specs to make it run as smoothly as other OSs from vertically integrated companies. It's just a fact. Pick up an Android phone with the same specs as (for example) an iPhone, and the Android will be ... "lacking" in performance. It doesn't make it a bad device, it just isn't as smooth.

    Now if everyone can play nicely, maybe we could get back to the original discussion.

    Si.
    Its clear that you've never used a Nexus device before, in the words of El Goog, "Buttery Smooth". Android is extremely efficient and doesnt need high specs until you bog it down with garbage and lay unnecessary skins on top of it. AOSP Android is the supreme version of Android and its why I would never buy any device that simply doesnt the Nexus name on it.

    Android has no real need for gestures even though they do support it already in certain apps, and iOS has gesture support baked into the entire OS its just not on anything else other than iPad, and quite frankly it wouldn't be practical on the iPhone.
    02-02-13 07:16 AM
  20. simu31's Avatar
    Its clear that you've never used a Nexus device before, in the words of El Goog, "Buttery Smooth".
    When I said "if everyone could play nicely"... this si the type of thing I was refering to.
    You do not know me. You do not know what I have and have not used. Please don't presume, it's ingracious and impolite.

    Si.
    02-02-13 07:32 AM
  21. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    it's said In reviews now that the Z10 still takes up to twice or three times as long as flagship Android and iOS phones to boot up...and Engadget says it took nearly 30 secs to shut down. Does anyone here who has a Z10 confirm this?
    Not disputing your spec discussion, but some of this is likely also the OS, no? My iPod Touch has a slower than crap A4 processor that bogs down the device when swiping a lot ... but boots up in 25 seconds vs. 3 minutes on my dual core PlayBook, even though the Playbook never seems to have the same slowdown.
    02-02-13 07:39 AM
  22. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    You knew the minute this thread went live with this title, that a stupid peeing match was going to occur. ;-)

    Back to the OP - I don't think Apple or Google are concerned right. Maybe Microsoft/NOKIA are taking more notice but there's still a big hill to climb.

    The newest engadget podcast which was all BlackBerry 10 sums up what I feel: BlackBerry 10 doesn't necessarily shake the earth, but it's nice, is a huge improvement over BlackBerry OS and it buys RIM time that they didn't have before.

    As was said above, RIM doesn't need to knock Apple or Google off their perch. They need to sell enough phones to stay in business. They were the darling of the stock market when iPhone first came out, yet only had 10 million subscribers. Now they have 80 or so and the world is writing them off. Seems silly. :-)
    simu31 likes this.
    02-02-13 07:43 AM
  23. i7guy's Avatar
    For what it's worth, I am truly sorry for that crack about SpecSavers and the bottle. It was in bad taste and I apologize. You'd think I'd know better since I use glasses myself.
    Okay that was big to man-up on an internet forum. No harm, no foul.
    02-02-13 08:49 AM
  24. maddie8211's Avatar
    well for starters, my bbm contact list which used to be 30 friends i was close to would now be 0, i had one friend still hanging on to bb and finally caved to get a galaxy s3. they've all moved onto iphone or android. to replace bbm we've all started using google plus, which is actually better than bbm as it's multi platform, it does group chats, and video chat, and even GROUP VIDEO CHAT, which we use often in different circles. we even use that at my job to have on the go meetings. so that would be a functionality loss. the camera isn't as robust as androids current camera, there is functionality lost there. customizability seems to have taken a hit for now, bb will probably add to this as time goes on but right now i'm not liking the fact that i have to move around on screens to figure out who sent me a message, the way android handles this currently is to flash the message in the status bar then it fads to a single icon, it's non intrusive, when i read the status bar doesn't appear in-app in bb10 i cringed. the z10 has identical hardware to the device i purchased 2 years go so hardware wise it wouldn't be much of an upgrade at all, and considering the camera quality seems to be just ok, i'd be losing more functionality there. it appears the OS has some redundancy bugs to smooth out in terms of how you get around in the hub. every review i've read, including kevins notes that the hub is a bit fumble-around-with. so i would probably be losing some speed / ease of use there. all this said, i still want a z10, it's a shame that it's so much though, i think the pricing is going to hurt them. all in all again, i still want one, i just wish RIM didn't leave such a huge gap between the z10 and the current market. the OS has some cool features, but not really anything exclusive.
    Something you WOULD gain is the ability to capitalize your sentences. That would be big plus for readers having to read your drivel.
    02-02-13 09:03 AM
  25. CHIP72's Avatar
    It's said In reviews now that the Z10 still takes up to twice or three times as long as flagship Android and iOS phones to boot up...and Engadget says it took nearly 30 secs to shut down. Does anyone here who has a Z10 confirm this?
    I can't, but I do know the Playbook, based on some of the same technology as BB 10, takes forever and a day relatively-speaking to start-up/reboot. Android 4.1, while not terribly fast itself, is faster. Both iOS 6 and WP 7.5 (haven't used a WP 8 OS device yet) are a lot faster. Heck, Windows 8 on a conventional hard drive/non-SSD drive boots up considerably faster.

    Having said the above, I do think boot-up times are overrated, especially if the device is usually activated from stand-by mode rather than from a cold boot. Nevertheless, when a device takes a long time to boot, I wonder just how much of that is caused by bloat in the operating system and if that bloat will show up during regular use.
    02-02-13 09:10 AM
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