[Tsepz_GP]

Just watched this rather interesting video of the BB vs iPhone battle for both consumer and enterprise, I think Jon did a good job at really capturing what happened in the time, interesting watch if you are bored

[rolfep]

I came to crackberry to point out this very same video!
My first smartphone was Treo 755p, then I got a KeyONE, now I'm using a Pixel3. Rettinger's video helped me understand what was going on during this period where I've been trying to find a phone that suits me: preferably pocketable, PKB, and relevant apps. I'm still holding out hope for PKB.

[Terry Zanger]

Just watched this rather interesting video of the BB vs iPhone battle for both consumer and enterprise, I think Jon did a good job at really capturing what happened in the time, interesting watch if you are bored

Just watched and enjoyed on my beautifully screened BlackBerry Priv. Enjoyed, thanks for the heads up.

[bakron1]

Just watched this rather interesting video of the BB vs iPhone battle for both consumer and enterprise, I think Jon did a good job at really capturing what happened in the time, interesting watch if you are bored

Interesting video and thanks for sharing, I also go way back to the early days and seen the transition from the Blackberry PKB to the iPhone and glass slab devices and it’s been a fun ride.

[tfitzpat03]

This was a great video. Coming from a blackberry fan, blackberry was always a step behind the competition since apple came in the picture. That was their ultimate demise. Never looked at it from a perspective of the iPhone going to Verizon. Made perfect sense.

I enjoyed the ride of having BB devices and I'm glad that I jumped off the ship before the ship sunk completely. There is still a little blackberry in me left because I still enjoy using their Vkb and Hub suite.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

"Losing the Signal: The Untold Story Behind the Extraordinary Rise and Spectacular Fall of BlackBerry" is really all you need, if you want the story of what went wrong.

It's is easy to say they were blind... but lot's of folks laughed at the first iPhone.

[Tsepz_GP]

but lot's of folks laughed at the first iPhone.

I was one of them clutching on to my Symbian S60 based Nokia N81,lol, not knowing that the very manufacturer and platform I was using would be dead within the next few years due to their poor handling of iPhone hype.

I was in highschool, I could see the cool factor in the iPhone, but there was so much missing in it at the time it just looked like Apple were in over their heads with it, but I also couldn’t understand how the hell the thing would work with the ridiculous data costs with carriers we have here in South Africa and it’s lack of 3G, when WiFi wasn’t as big.

Now here I am typing on my second one and looking back.


Amazing where things can go if a vision is followed through with a solid plan.....and A LOT of money, this was no easy walk in the park for Apple either, I remember distinctly that there was a point where it seemed iPhone sales were not great, until they announced the AppStore,l followed by iPhone 3G, from there the iPhone was a runaway train taking everything out year by year.

[sorinv]

Yes but the iphone is still inferior at multitasking, email, typing in multiple languages, contact and calendar app, music app, weather app.
I only switched to the iphone11pro this January and I still find it inferior to my Passport.
So, I am very very glad I did NOT switch to an iPhone earlier. I would have missed a lot...

Posted via CB10

[joeldf]

The iPhone 3G was the game changer. That's when Apple added native Exchange Activesync to their email client. That's also when the smaller companies that were paying for BES on top of their in-house email servers decided to end that extra payment and dump BES.

That's what the firm I work at did. The partners couldn't dump BlackBerry fast enough once the iPhone 3G was available. I'm sure we weren't the only company doing that back in 2008/9.

[Troy Tiscareno]

Actually, it was the iPhone 4 that was the real game-changer, which coincided with the iPad. The iPad's impact has certainly fallen these days, but when it came out, it was a HUGE deal, particularly in enterprise. Every C-suite person wanted one, and that was the tipping point in a lot of companies to moving to an MDM software that supported iOS, which meant that iPhones were able to be used for corporate email. If you look at the sales numbers, it was the 4 where sales took off like a rocket. Of course that was built on the 3G/3GS phones' success, but the 4 is where there's a huge uptick in the sales charts.

Yes, the original iPhone was missing a whole lot, but what it DID have worked, and of course Apple was going to keep adding features. And while the iPhone was certainly not an email-management device FIRST like the BB was, it did so much else that the vast majority didn't care. Plus, a lot of communication was moving to other platforms, like Facebook and Twitter and iMessage.

Being the first phone to be able to run a full desktop-quality web browser AND advanced applications with full sensor integration bought Apple (quickly followed by Google) the time to get other important features shored up. Those that followed (WebOS, WinPhone, BB10) were so far behind that so such leeway was going to be given - plus, developers have always preferred to support no more than 2 platforms, which meant that 3rd Place and below were the same as "failed."

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Actually, it was the iPhone 4 that was the real game-changer, which coincided with the iPad. The iPad's impact has certainly fallen these days, but when it came out, it was a HUGE deal, particularly in enterprise. Every C-suite person wanted one, and that was the tipping point in a lot of companies to moving to an MDM software that supported iOS, which meant that iPhones were able to be used for corporate email. If you look at the sales numbers, it was the 4 where sales took off like a rocket. Of course that was built on the 3G/3GS phones' success, but the 4 is where there's a huge uptick in the sales charts.

Yes, the original iPhone was missing a whole lot, but what it DID have worked, and of course Apple was going to keep adding features. And while the iPhone was certainly not an email-management device FIRST like the BB was, it did so much else that the vast majority didn't care. Plus, a lot of communication was moving to other platforms, like Facebook and Twitter and iMessage.

Being the first phone to be able to run a full desktop-quality web browser AND advanced applications with full sensor integration bought Apple (quickly followed by Google) the time to get other important features shored up. Those that followed (WebOS, WinPhone, BB10) were so far behind that so such leeway was going to be given - plus, developers have always preferred to support no more than 2 platforms, which meant that 3rd Place and below were the same as "failed."

Yeah once you figured out a way to support the bosses iPad, you couldn't say no to his iPhone... and then everyone wanted in. Was also the iPhone 4 that made it's way to Verizon... so at that point, it was the go to phone.

Looking back, BlackBerry mistake.... was not keeping up on smartphone. But not realizing the potential of software. If they had taken BES crossplatfrom right away, how many UEM would even exist today. If BlackBerry had embraced being an app developer... and pushed out a BBM client (that worked) on iOS and Android at their release. Would WhatsApp exist?

[Troy Tiscareno]

Right. Unfortunately, that all went against Mike's vision. In his mind, you had to keep everything BB-only which would "force" customers to buy BB only. What he failed to realize is that companies only bought BB because, for a while, they were the best overall solution available. No too long after that changed - and around the iPhone 4, it changed in a BIG way - BB wasn't the best solution available, and it didn't take long for many companies to replace EVERYTHING BB with iPhones and MDM/EMM software that supported iOS (and, soon after, Android), and suddenly BB was out across the board.

Funny thing: IBM lost control to Microsoft because they tried to do the same thing with the PC, and 30 years later, Microsoft lost control of smartphones because they tried to do the same thing themselves.

One thing Steve Jobs understood that most tech CEOs didn't is that you need to be prepared to poach your own market with better products, because if you don't, someone else eventually will. Alas, Tim Cook has forgotten this lesson, and so had Ballmer at MS. Mike Lazaridis apparently never learned that lesson at all.

[Tsepz_GP]

Right. Unfortunately, that all went against Mike's vision. In his mind, you had to keep everything BB-only which would "force" customers to buy BB only. What he failed to realize is that companies only bought BB because, for a while, they were the best overall solution available. No too long after that changed - and around the iPhone 4, it changed in a BIG way - BB wasn't the best solution available, and it didn't take long for many companies to replace EVERYTHING BB with iPhones and MDM/EMM software that supported iOS (and, soon after, Android), and suddenly BB was out across the board.

Funny thing: IBM lost control to Microsoft because they tried to do the same thing with the PC, and 30 years later, Microsoft lost control of smartphones because they tried to do the same thing themselves.

One thing Steve Jobs understood that most tech CEOs didn't is that you need to be prepared to poach your own market with better products, because if you don't, someone else eventually will. Alas, Tim Cook has forgotten this lesson, and so had Ballmer at MS. Mike Lazaridis apparently never learned that lesson at all.

I would say Tim Cook is well aware of this, considering how much more functionality they are starting to give the iPad, adding things like Pencil and Keyboard, part of this will cannibalize their Mac sales because not everyone needs a full fledge laptop when they could do most of the tasks with an +11inch iPad Pro or 10.5inch iPad Air. A lot of schools and aviation businesses rely on iPads down here.

A lot of the Apple apps are also going cross platform, with Apple Music being available on Android and Windows, along with both Apple Music and Apple TV+ coming standard with some TVs e.g. Samsung Smart TVs

[iUser]

Right. Unfortunately, that all went against Mike's vision. In his mind, you had to keep everything BB-only which would "force" customers to buy BB only. What he failed to realize is that companies only bought BB because, for a while, they were the best overall solution available. No too long after that changed - and around the iPhone 4, it changed in a BIG way - BB wasn't the best solution available, and it didn't take long for many companies to replace EVERYTHING BB with iPhones and MDM/EMM software that supported iOS (and, soon after, Android), and suddenly BB was out across the board.

Funny thing: IBM lost control to Microsoft because they tried to do the same thing with the PC, and 30 years later, Microsoft lost control of smartphones because they tried to do the same thing themselves.

One thing Steve Jobs understood that most tech CEOs didn't is that you need to be prepared to poach your own market with better products, because if you don't, someone else eventually will. Alas, Tim Cook has forgotten this lesson, and so had Ballmer at MS. Mike Lazaridis apparently never learned that lesson at all.

Nah, it was Cook's idea to kill your own market with your next products. He has been controlling the pricing strategy since the first iPhone to get market share and keep the premium status of the latest iPhone, which led to US$ 399 iPhone SE 2020.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Nah, it was Cook's idea to kill your own market with your next products. He has been controlling the pricing strategy since the first iPhone to get market share and keep the premium status of the latest iPhone, which led to US$ 399 iPhone SE 2020.

I don't know..... I've seen a few people that were Android users, switch to iPhones.... because of the lower cost SE. Only time will tell if the SE is only pulling people away from older iPhones or used iPhone sales.... or if it's expanding the overall userbase.

[Bbnivende]

I can see the SE being heavily subsidized by carriers as an inducement to stay with the carrier. The small screen size is a problem. There is a segment of iPhone users who augment their iPhone use with an iPad. They don’t use their iPhone as their main at home device. I could see some iPhone 6 &7 users switch to SE’s in that case. A plus version of the SE coming in at $450 would have sold much better IMO.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I can see the SE being heavily subsidized by carriers as an inducement to stay with the carrier. The small screen size is a problem. There is a segment of iPhone users who augment their iPhone use with an iPad. They don’t use their iPhone as their main at home device. I could see some iPhone 6 &7 users switch to SE’s in that case. A plus version of the SE coming in at $450 would have sold much better IMO.

Carriers seem to be more worried about new lines being added than keeping existing users. They have the numbers and I guess this works for them.

Don't really see the reasoning on a $450 version.... whole point was a low cost value iPhone, that still was a premium. I'm shocked they used the same chipset as the iPhone 11. Would have taught there would be some savings going with an older one. But in the end it's really about scale and volume of production.... in the end there really isn't much difference in the actually production cost of one chip over the other.

But I can see it being tougher to sell iPhone XR or older EOL product that some retailers might still have in channels, at this point....

[Bbnivende]

Carriers seem to be more worried about new lines being added than keeping existing users. They have the numbers and I guess this works for them.

Don't really see the reasoning on a $450 version.... whole point was a low cost value iPhone, that still was a premium. I'm shocked they used the same chipset as the iPhone 11. Would have taught there would be some savings going with an older one. But in the end it's really about scale and volume of production.... in the end there really isn't much difference in the actually production cost of one chip over the other.

But I can see it being tougher to sell iPhone XR or older EOL product that some retailers might still have in channels, at this point....

I just see the 4.7 inch screen as not that appealing anymore. I would pay a little more for the larger screen. I have an iPhone 8 ... a mistake by me. I got sucked in by the carrier discount.

A friend of mine has an iPhone 6 but he also mainly uses his iPad. Lots of 6’s in use because of the battery replacement offer last year. They have not felt the need to upgrade to iOS 13. iOS 13 has a feature that does not work well on the small screen.

[bh7171]

Carriers seem to be more worried about new lines being added than keeping existing users. They have the numbers and I guess this works for them.

Don't really see the reasoning on a $450 version.... whole point was a low cost value iPhone, that still was a premium. I'm shocked they used the same chipset as the iPhone 11. Would have taught there would be some savings going with an older one. But in the end it's really about scale and volume of production.... in the end there really isn't much difference in the actually production cost of one chip over the other.

But I can see it being tougher to sell iPhone XR or older EOL product that some retailers might still have in channels, at this point....

T-Mobile just announced "free" iPhone SE for existing customers with qualified trade in (including many Android devices) and or 500 off a new S20 variant with trade in including Apple devices. No additional lines or anything. Pretty great promotion to keep existing users.

[bh7171]

I just see the 4.7 inch screen as not that appealing anymore. I would pay a little more for the larger screen. I have an iPhone 8 ... a mistake by me. I got sucked in by the carrier discount.

I believe you are correct. Consumers want larger screens and batteries. A SE plus with the 8+ chassis would have sold better. 4.7 in screen and 1800 battery is 5-6 year old tech.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

T-Mobile just announced "free" iPhone SE for existing customers with qualified trade in (including many Android devices) and or 500 off a new S20 variant with trade in including Apple devices. No additional lines or anything. Pretty great promotion to keep existing users.

Yeah T-Mobile does things differently than Verizon and AT&T.... I've hoped that they would pressure the big two to change, but they don't seem to be concerned. Even though Verizon has lost ground in the last few years - they once had the biggest share of subscribers in the US. But AT&T has surpassed them and at this point with the merger the T-Mobile/Sprint is pretty close to even in subscribers. I'd hate to own Verizon's stock at this point... kinda like I hate having to use them, but as they are the ones with the coverage here.

Verizon didn't do anything for the SE....

[Tsepz_GP]

I believe you are correct. Consumers want larger screens and batteries. A SE plus with the 8+ chassis would have sold better. 4.7 in screen and 1800 battery is 5-6 year old tech.

Seems to be doing just fine in the very country where phones with huge screens and huge batteries come from...

https://nypost.com/2020/05/22/apples...-hit-in-china/

[bh7171]

Seems to be doing just fine in the very country where phones with huge screens and huge batteries come from...

https://nypost.com/2020/05/22/apples...-hit-in-china/

[IMG=1242x2688]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200522/9331e54e4c41d88972125079abcc427d.png[/url]

Well carriers such as T-Mobile here is US are now giving them away free with trade in this weekend with additional lines or anything. All one pays is the sales tax.

[Tsepz_GP]

Well carriers such as T-Mobile here is US are now giving them away free with trade in this weekend with additional lines or anything. All one pays is the sales tax.

Not surprised, the North American market seems to favour the iPhone 11.

[iUser]

I don't know..... I've seen a few people that were Android users, switch to iPhones.... because of the lower cost SE. Only time will tell if the SE is only pulling people away from older iPhones or used iPhone sales.... or if it's expanding the overall userbase.

While pulling people away from older/used iPhones or Android somehow belongs to this strategy as well, I think it is about having products in each price segments without losing it's premium status.

Especially considering how many North Americans and Asians (and probably also from other continents) would simply think "Premium brand is better because it is delivering a better quality" .