10-08-16 06:19 PM
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  1. ardakca's Avatar
    Lol. Do you understand the fact that what Apple, Samsung etc...pay for components isn't the same? Discounts come in for larger quantities and due to brand power prices are negotiated further down. Even the quality of component and timelines of delivery are affected.

    Its not that easy mate.
    Read all the posts. I did not foresee the same price. Anyways BlackBerry is done for. No need to spend energy on what ifs.
    09-28-16 12:39 PM
  2. JohnGrey's Avatar
    Well, let's see. Sony htc LG and most other smartphone oems release their phones near mwc or ifa right? The lead times are pretty much the same for them. So if you order during the same time frame I don't see any reason to see triple the price for a million orders. These are my experiences though.
    It matters because you're falsely assuming that all people that step up to the food line are afforded equal weight as purchasers and that's definitely not the case. Production of parts occurs in blocks of shifts, requiring mass coordination of raw materials, resource expenditures, manhours. Prices take into account forward business, past performance, the way prospective poor performance of a device model may rightly or wrongly cast aspersion on hardware components, how resale of poor-performing model components may dilute forward sales from other manufacturers. Then there is the perfectly reasonable assumption that a manufacturer with a smaller order is one with less operating capital for upfront cost of production and has a higher probability of non-completion of the payment should unfortunate circumstances occur, and no one can argue that BBRY's operating capital is dwarfed by the likes of Apple, Samsung, even LG or HTC.
    TGR1 and Troy Tiscareno like this.
    09-28-16 12:41 PM
  3. krazyatom's Avatar
    I will miss blackberry! RIP. Time to move on.
    09-28-16 12:42 PM
  4. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    Guys you are mistaken. Internal parts are not built specially for the oems in the android world. Qualcomm sells no matter what like sony camera sensors. You are talking as if BlackBerry would be the only one buying the components.
    Lol, you dont get it. Even the Snapdragon 820 comes in different BINs, and the highest bidder gets the best BIN.

    You are competing no matter what. In the tech world competition starts right from the raw materials.

    Why do you think Samsung, Huawei, LG and Apple try so hard to make sure as many components are made in-house? Even the Sony camera sensors have different versions within a model, not every OEM wants the same setup.
    09-28-16 12:43 PM
  5. ardakca's Avatar
    It matters because you're falsely assuming that all people that step up to the food line are afforded equal weight as purchasers and that's definitely not the case. Production of parts occurs in blocks of shifts, requiring mass coordination of raw materials, resource expenditures, manhours. Prices take into account forward business, past performance, the way prospective poor performance of a device model may rightly or wrongly cast aspersion on hardware components, how resale of poor-performing model components may dilute forward sales from other manufacturers. Then there is the perfectly reasonable assumption that a manufacturer with a smaller order is one with less operating capital for upfront cost of production and has a higher probability of non-completion of the payment should unfortunate circumstances occur, and no one can argue that BBRY's operating capital is dwarfed by the likes of Apple, Samsung, even LG or HTC.
    So you are telling me a small number that require less raw and labour hours would increase the price more than double per unit? This being a business that is dependent on annual orders? I would say you are absolutely correct if SoC production had huge lead times. But no.
    09-28-16 12:46 PM
  6. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    Read all the posts. I did not foresee the same price. Anyways BlackBerry is done for. No need to spend energy on what ifs.
    You didnt have to, it was never going to work, BB past the guessing game stage long ago.

    Building a niche product is not that easy, components become more expensive, timelines longer, suppliers can shaft you for larger clients, product support becomes more expensive and you are not guaranteed any sort of profit.
    JeepBB likes this.
    09-28-16 12:50 PM
  7. darkehawke's Avatar
    Just tell me honestly, if I release a BlackBerry PKB flagship on par with Note 7, S7 or iPhone) you get the point). Would you pay 900 $ bucks?

    Well forget it. BlackBerry is done. New phones won't even be released beyond Indonesia. It was fun though.

    Cheers!
    Honestly? No

    Hell i wouldnt pay that for any other OEM as well, nowt to do with Blackberry.

    But bear in mind, I'm not a PKB user anymore so I'm not in that niche you're trying to reach

    Give me a smartphone with a camera that is as good as a DSLR and i might pay 900$ for it.
    09-28-16 12:55 PM
  8. JeepBB's Avatar
    This is shocking! There were no signs that this might happen.
    I realise you posted in jest, but I am actually a little surprised that Chen announced it... and so starkly.

    Now there can be no pretence that BB is still in the phone business, though I'm sure there'll be several here who will try and who will claim that BB still makes phones.

    Before this announcement everyone could pretend that there was a BB hardware division - in reality, just a guy with a well-thumbed TCL catalogue - and the seriously delusional could even pretend that BB10 phones were coming back because BB "hadn't ruled that out". Consequently BB could hide behind that ambiguity.

    Nobody can credibly claim that anymore, and I'm sure any hopes for a future PKB phone are done. Who would design such a beast? Not BB, they don't do design anymore... and I doubt TCL has a PKB reference model in their catalogue.

    You are right though, it was inevitable, but I still don't really see the advantage to BB of actually announcing the end of hardware and resolving all doubt. I think it's what is called a "courageous decision" - of which the wisdom (or otherwise) will only be seen after the passage of time.
    09-28-16 12:57 PM
  9. darkehawke's Avatar
    Well at first I thought they were announcing the outsourcing of their phones but that globe article points to them pretty much not selling phones at all...and I think I read something about licensing their physical keyboard out as well...

    #whatisclassic
    Err from what I gather, there is still the possibility of new phones
    It'd just be done in the same way as the DTEK phones are being done

    So no more PKB i'm afraid
    JeepBB likes this.
    09-28-16 12:58 PM
  10. ardakca's Avatar
    You didnt have to, it was never going to work, BB past the guessing game stage long ago.

    Building a niche product is not that easy, components become more expensive, timelines longer, suppliers can shaft you for larger clients, product support becomes more expensive and you are not guaranteed any sort of profit.
    You can outsource the product support to third parties. Being in the IoT era, no profit break even policy would just keep BlackBerry relevant. Anyways like I said, no need to spend energy.
    09-28-16 12:58 PM
  11. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Err from what I gather, there is still the possibility of new phones
    It'd just be done in the same way as the DTEK phones are being done

    So no more PKB i'm afraid
    Not the way Chen talked about the finical aspects of the hardware division. Based on what he told investors they are no longer going to be fiscally responsible for any smartphone hardware... no purchase orders, no inventory, no distribution. All he talked about was licensing like they have done in Indonesia... but he made that sound like if would only be regional licensing, not global. So that Indonesia company can't sell phone in other non licensed markets. And that BlackBerry would not be selling those devices either.

    While these TCL reference models did cut most the cost down... BlackBerry still had to pay out money in hopes of making it back. He is no longer going to do that. And I really don't think sales support TCL taking on the risk of paying for everything up front in hopes that eventually sales will improve... Enterprise really isn't interested in cheap Chinese phone sold by a company that isn't committed to long term sales.
    09-28-16 01:11 PM
  12. cgk's Avatar
    Not the way Chen talked about the finical aspects of the hardware division. Based on what he told investors they are no longer going to be fiscally responsible for any smartphone hardware... no purchase orders, no inventory, no distribution. All he talked about was licensing like they have done in Indonesia... but he made that sound like if would only be regional licensing, not global. So that Indonesia company can't sell phone in other non licensed markets. And that BlackBerry would not be selling those devices either.

    While these TCL reference models did cut most the cost down... BlackBerry still had to pay out money in hopes of making it back. He is no longer going to do that. And I really don't think sales support TCL taking on the risk of paying for everything up front in hopes that eventually sales will improve... Enterprise really isn't interested in cheap Chinese phone sold by a company that isn't committed to long term sales.
    Right and before long we will have the first thread of "I contacted Blackberry for support with my L50 and they told me to get stuffed".
    09-28-16 01:13 PM
  13. ardakca's Avatar
    Honestly? No

    Hell i wouldnt pay that for any other OEM as well, nowt to do with Blackberry.

    But bear in mind, I'm not a PKB user anymore so I'm not in that niche you're trying to reach

    Give me a smartphone with a camera that is as good as a DSLR and i might pay 900$ for it.
    . Well you are gonna have to wait for that phone .
    darkehawke likes this.
    09-28-16 01:21 PM
  14. ardakca's Avatar
    I realise you posted in jest, but I am actually a little surprised that Chen announced it... and so starkly.

    Now there can be no pretence that BB is still in the phone business, though I'm sure there'll be several here who will try and who will claim that BB still makes phones.

    Before this announcement everyone could pretend that there was a BB hardware division - in reality, just a guy with a well-thumbed TCL catalogue - and the seriously delusional could even pretend that BB10 phones were coming back because BB "hadn't ruled that out". Consequently BB could hide behind that ambiguity.

    Nobody can credibly claim that anymore, and I'm sure any hopes for a future PKB phone are done. Who would design such a beast? Not BB, they don't do design anymore... and I doubt TCL has a PKB reference model in their catalogue.

    You are right though, it was inevitable, but I still don't really see the advantage to BB of actually announcing the end of hardware and resolving all doubt. I think it's what is called a "courageous decision" - of which the wisdom (or otherwise) will only be seen after the passage of time.
    For Pkb I don't know. The deal might cover mercury with TCL. Since it is an old project, BlackBerry could have given the design to TCL or some other party.
    09-28-16 01:22 PM
  15. Witmen's Avatar
    Finally some redemption.

    Going to Android also didn't saved BlackBerry

    party time.



    Posted via CB10

    Nope, after the damage BlackBerry 10 caused them, there was no saving the hardware business.

    Now had they went directly from the Bold 9900 to Android like I and many other people wanted them to, then Android might of helped.

    There simply is no recovering from a commercial failure as massive as what BB10 turned out to be.
    GadgetTravel likes this.
    09-28-16 01:22 PM
  16. stlabrat's Avatar
    The cost of parts/internals is only a fraction of the cost. You've got to pay for R&D, manufacturing, shipping, support, manufacturer warranty, etc.. etc.. none of which come free. Plus, in order to get the raw parts cost down to a respectably inexpensive level, you have to buy a lot of them, and probably significantly more than you'd need for a smaller production run just to meet the low demand.
    plus the inventory if volume forecast is wrong -marketing and program mgr issue... (just look at the write off of z10, cost more than anything else). Rosy forecast is the killer.
    09-28-16 01:27 PM
  17. stlabrat's Avatar
    Nope, after the damage BlackBerry 10 caused them, there was no saving the hardware business.

    Now had they went directly from the Bold 9900 to Android like I and many other people wanted them to, then Android might of helped.

    There simply is no recovering from a commercial failure as massive as what BB10 turned out to be.
    like HTC?
    09-28-16 01:29 PM
  18. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Nope, after the damage BlackBerry 10 caused them, there was no saving the hardware business.

    Now had they went directly from the Bold 9900 to Android like I and many other people wanted them to, then Android might of helped.

    There simply is no recovering from a commercial failure as massive as what BB10 turned out to be.
    Nope... back then Android wasn't as secure as it is today. BlackBerry would have needed to go the Amazon route and created a forked version of Android to get the level of security that their customers would have required. But they would have been back in the same position of needing developers to simple port their apps over... which even Amazon is now having problems with.

    That they didn't have a new OS already in the works back when Apple and Google announced their plans... was unbelievable (I guess we just assume large companies are planning for the future). That after those plans were made know and BlackBerry dismissed both of those large companies... was the end of BlackBerry. In 2010 there was really nothing they could do to change the outcome, and many that were here then saw that.
    09-28-16 01:32 PM
  19. ardakca's Avatar
    Well PKB is definitely coming. So I am OK for a least two years
    09-28-16 01:35 PM
  20. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    So you are telling me a small number that require less raw and labour hours would increase the price more than double per unit? This being a business that is dependent on annual orders? I would say you are absolutely correct if SoC production had huge lead times. But no.
    The parts supplier provides a Base Price Per Unit. Additionally they will offer discounts for larger orders, because overhead costs typically don't increase linearly, so the more units built the less overhead per unit.

    Even if multiple OEMs order at the same time, they're each priced at whatever bulk tier they ordered. For many reasons as listed by JohnGrey above. I'll even toss in another reason... competing OEMs aren't in the habit of sharing their discounts with competitors. If a company ordered 20mil units to receive a 50% discount, and at the same time a competing company ordered 1mil that normally comes with a much smaller discount (or even no discount), but got them at the same discount as the first company because they piggybacked it, then the first company would have some very harsh things to say to the supplier (if not some legal action).
    09-28-16 01:40 PM
  21. cgk's Avatar
    Well PKB is definitely coming. So I am OK for a least two years
    Well if a licensee is offering one in a market where you actually live - otherwise I guess you import one and live with the fact you are on your own with no support.
    09-28-16 01:42 PM
  22. 21stNow's Avatar
    Why not produce the amount the market needs? Stable income.
    Where (in the real world, not a fantasy land) has it been determined that the market needs phones with physical keyboards? Sales figures say otherwise.
    JeepBB likes this.
    09-28-16 01:45 PM
  23. ardakca's Avatar
    Where (in the real world, not a fantasy land) has it been determined that the market needs phones with physical keyboards? Sales figures say otherwise.
    Indonesia does not agree with you on that )). By the way BlackBerry is pretty popular in India also. Whatever, I wish I had a way to prove.
    09-28-16 01:48 PM
  24. ardakca's Avatar
    Well if a licensee is offering one in a market where you actually live - otherwise I guess you import one and live with the fact you are on your own with no support.
    Chen said as it was going to be sold by shopbb. The interview in front of all the BlackBerry phones.
    09-28-16 01:50 PM
  25. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Indonesia does not agree with you on that )). By the way BlackBerry is pretty popular in India also. Whatever, I wish I had a way to prove.
    Simple find some sales figures that show it...

    Indonesia has a pretty health BBOS userbase... BB10, not so much.

    India has moved on from BBOS as they have a more developed network system and thus the advantages of BBOS and BBM aren't as key as they are in Indonesia. It's really about the networks....

    Wouldn't if be funny if this new partnership released a new BBOS device.....
    kirson likes this.
    09-28-16 01:54 PM
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