10-08-16 06:19 PM
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  1. bbmme's Avatar
    If they aren't looking for partners, BlackBerry should be friend one plus and have them build their phones.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Bratza and blackmass like this.
    09-28-16 07:17 PM
  2. jegs2's Avatar
    On the positive side of all this, should be able to get that Classic for a second phone off Amazon or eBay for a lot cheaper.
    JeepBB likes this.
    09-28-16 08:17 PM
  3. andy957's Avatar
    I think we all saw this coming. In many ways it is similar to IBM. For those old enough to remember, there were PC's (only made by IBM) then there were "clones". Eventually the clones eroded IBM's market share to the point where they left the hardware market and concentrated on software and consulting. They're still a very profitable company today, but "meh", as they say.
    Good point.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    09-28-16 10:24 PM
  4. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Can someone explain a few pointers for me regarding this new development. I think I got it down but need some clarification points.

    Future BlackBerry devices will be more along the lines of the DTEK50 /60 models? They will be re branded devices from other manufacturers and just carry the BlackBerry logo, name and "secured Android" software along with monthly security devices?

    I understand that BlackBerry won't be designing, building or carrying any hardware in the future. I am just trying to figure out the difference between what this "licensing agreement" is vs the DTEK50/60 model?
    Here's the difference:

    With the DTEK models, BB went to TCL, got a copy of their "devices of the near future" catalog, pointed at two future models, and said "we'll take this one and this one, with a couple of minor customizations." BB paid cash for those phones, and is responsible for developing the OS/software and for distributing and marketing them, which they're doing globally.

    Going forward, other companies will have to come to BB and pay to license the name, the custom software, and potentially the PKB design (and their samples will need to meet BB's quality guidelines before production can proceed), and otherwise BB will be uninvolved. BB won't be designing phones, won't be buying, stocking, or distributing phones, and won't be supporting phones. All of that will be up to the OEM - and it's expected that some (and for certain, at least the first one) is only licensing the brand for the Indonesian market - meaning it won't be sold elsewhere, nor will it be designed for, say, North America, which needs a different radio package than is typical of an "international" phone.

    It's far from certain that any OEM with global reach will license anything from BB - or even that anyone else will actually license anything period. It sounds like they're making deals with a Chinese company, but I think most other OEMs considering this licensing will have a "wait and see" and try to figure out if the BB brand is going to help make them a profit. If it doesn't, they won't continue to license it.

    Remember: OEMs are going to have to pay BB extra money - on top of their costs to develop, manufacture, and distribute the phones - to use the name and software, and if the name and the software doesn't allow them to sell those phones at a premium price, then there's no reason to license the name or software.
    Bla1ze, JeepBB, Maxxxpower and 8 others like this.
    09-28-16 11:41 PM
  5. curves2000's Avatar
    Here's the difference:

    With the DTEK models, BB went to TCL, got a copy of their "devices of the near future" catalog, pointed at two future models, and said "we'll take this one and this one, with a couple of minor customizations." BB paid cash for those phones, and is responsible for developing the OS/software and for distributing and marketing them, which they're doing globally.

    Going forward, other companies will have to come to BB and pay to license the name, the custom software, and potentially the PKB design (and their samples will need to meet BB's quality guidelines before production can proceed), and otherwise BB will be uninvolved. BB won't be designing phones, won't be buying, stocking, or distributing phones, and won't be supporting phones. All of that will be up to the OEM - and it's expected that some (and for certain, at least the first one) is only licensing the brand for the Indonesian market - meaning it won't be sold elsewhere, nor will it be designed for, say, North America, which needs a different radio package than is typical of an "international" phone.

    It's far from certain that any OEM with global reach will license anything from BB - or even that anyone else will actually license anything period. It sounds like they're making deals with a Chinese company, but I think most other OEMs considering this licensing will have a "wait and see" and try to figure out if the BB brand is going to help make them a profit. If it doesn't, they won't continue to license it.

    Remember: OEMs are going to have to pay BB extra money - on top of their costs to develop, manufacture, and distribute the phones - to use the name and software, and if the name and the software doesn't allow them to sell those phones at a premium price, then there's no reason to license the name or software.
    Hi Troy,

    Thanks for this excellent, well thought out response. BlackBerry should hire you for communicating the strategy a bit better! The media reports, including interviews with John Chen haven't been very straight forward. The talk has been "we are exiting hardware business, but we may have BlackBerry branded devices come to North America" and then there was a squashing of the rumored DTEK 60 launch along with confirmation of a physical keyboard device coming soon. This is all from the CEO!

    So the question I have now, with this new strategy, hypothetically if I buy a Android BlackBerry (Priv, DTEK etc) who will be servicing the OS? Is BlackBerry still going to be offering Android updates and the like?

    Just curious as its clear that BlackBerry 10 is pretty much done in terms of support but what about the phones being sold now and in the future?

    Thanks!

    Posted via CB10
    09-29-16 01:48 AM
  6. JeepBB's Avatar
    I'll let Troy respond to your questions himself, but I'll just add that the lack of clarity in BB's statements probably suits their purposes better than Troy's (brutally honest, but realistic) take on events.

    The ambiguity probably helps BB in the same way that not ruling out future BB10 phones did - where I'm sure additional phones were sold because BB10 wasn't (officially) dead.

    Just sayin'
    09-29-16 02:20 AM
  7. Yertie's Avatar
    On goes the march towards bland clone phones unfit to bear the BlackBerry berry.

    Very sad day.
    09-29-16 02:20 AM
  8. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Hi Troy,

    Thanks for this excellent, well thought out response. BlackBerry should hire you for communicating the strategy a bit better! The media reports, including interviews with John Chen haven't been very straight forward. The talk has been "we are exiting hardware business, but we may have BlackBerry branded devices come to North America" and then there was a squashing of the rumored DTEK 60 launch along with confirmation of a physical keyboard device coming soon. This is all from the CEO!
    The DTEK60 is definitely being released. They're being manufactured as we speak.

    The Rome/Mercury device has been designed, but Chen clarified in an interview today that he hasn't decided if he's going to actually produce it. It's possible that it could still be released before the end of BB's fiscal year (by Feb 2017, in other words), but it could also get scrapped.

    So the question I have now, with this new strategy, hypothetically if I buy a Android BlackBerry (Priv, DTEK etc) who will be servicing the OS? Is BlackBerry still going to be offering Android updates and the like?
    BB will be supporting all current Android phones, including the DTEK60 and - if it's released - the Mercury - for at least 18 months from release. That's a requirement of their Google license - though it doesn't require them to provide a huge amount of support to meet the requirements.

    As for the future licensed phones - assuming there are any - it will be up to the OEM to provide support - both physical and software support - for those phones. BB won't be doing that for any new devices beyond DTEK60 or Mercury (if it's released). They've made it quite clear that they are getting out of that business.

    Just curious as its clear that BlackBerry 10 is pretty much done in terms of support but what about the phones being sold now and in the future?
    I believe that BB is going to actually release the 2 promised BB10 updates - 10.3.3 and 10.3.4 - but as has been stated all along, they're going to be minor security updates and a few bug-fixes - no real development to speak of. And the release of 10.3.4 is going to be the absolute end of all BB10 support - that much is quite clear.

    Of course, they're happy to keep selling off their remaining stock of BB10 phones until they're (hopefully) all gone, but anyone buying them needs to realize they're buying the tail end of a dead platform. It's not like that has really been a secret - it's just a few people here who have deliberately been in denial about it.
    09-29-16 02:37 AM
  9. cgk's Avatar
    I'll let Troy respond to your questions himself, but I'll just add that the lack of clarity in BB's statements probably suits their purposes better than Troy's (brutally honest, but realistic) take on events.

    The ambiguity probably helps BB in the same way that not ruling out future BB10 phones did - where I'm sure additional phones were sold because BB10 wasn't (officially) dead.

    Just sayin'
    Why do you think BBRY used the word "outsourcing" when they aren't actually outsourcing at all...
    JeepBB likes this.
    09-29-16 02:53 AM
  10. AmritD's Avatar
    Here's the difference:

    With the DTEK models, BB went to TCL, got a copy of their "devices of the near future" catalog, pointed at two future models, and said "we'll take this one and this one, with a couple of minor customizations." BB paid cash for those phones, and is responsible for developing the OS/software and for distributing and marketing them, which they're doing globally.

    Going forward, other companies will have to come to BB and pay to license the name, the custom software, and potentially the PKB design (and their samples will need to meet BB's quality guidelines before production can proceed), and otherwise BB will be uninvolved. BB won't be designing phones, won't be buying, stocking, or distributing phones, and won't be supporting phones. All of that will be up to the OEM - and it's expected that some (and for certain, at least the first one) is only licensing the brand for the Indonesian market - meaning it won't be sold elsewhere, nor will it be designed for, say, North America, which needs a different radio package than is typical of an "international" phone.

    It's far from certain that any OEM with global reach will license anything from BB - or even that anyone else will actually license anything period. It sounds like they're making deals with a Chinese company, but I think most other OEMs considering this licensing will have a "wait and see" and try to figure out if the BB brand is going to help make them a profit. If it doesn't, they won't continue to license it.

    Remember: OEMs are going to have to pay BB extra money - on top of their costs to develop, manufacture, and distribute the phones - to use the name and software, and if the name and the software doesn't allow them to sell those phones at a premium price, then there's no reason to license the name or software.
    What should one make out of this?


    BlackBerry to exit hardware business-img_20160929_164537.png

    Just for the existing ones?
    Or upcoming ones as well? (beyond the DTEK60 and Mercury)

    Z30STA100-2/10.3.2.2876
    09-29-16 06:16 AM
  11. donnation's Avatar
    What should one make out of this?


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Just for the existing ones?
    Or upcoming ones as well? (beyond the DTEK60 and Mercury)

    Z30STA100-2/10.3.2.2876
    I'd take that as existing ones, with the DTEK60 when its released and the Mercury if it ever gets released. Beyond that I don't think so.
    09-29-16 06:33 AM
  12. zephyr613's Avatar
    And here is another question to throw out there:

    Is Blackberry going to be picky regarding the licensing? Meaning if an OEM comes to them with a cr@p smart phone with 1GB RAM and a 2MP camera running whatever version of KitKat - will they still accept the licensing fee, slap the logo on it and thereby dilute the Blackberry name even further, all in the pursuit of the almighty $?

    Not saying the name is great currently, but going back to the Steve Jobs analogy, Apple brought him back when the clones failed to meet both the users and the company's standards. He then designed a new device from the ground up. Do any of us truly see this happening, where after a certain number of fiscal quarters, a whole new design team is brought back in to develop and take over OEM distribution of a new smartphone that is wholly Blackberry??

    I do not think so, my main concern is the dilution of the name. Software business notwithstanding, I am unsure that BB as a company, can withstand any more gut punches prior to just collapsing in it's entirety.
    09-29-16 06:33 AM
  13. Old_Mil's Avatar
    Listening to the earnings it seems pretty straightforward - if WANGTECH wants to license to make a Blackberry branded phone for the US, there will be a phone. If nobody wants to license for that market, there will be no phone.

    Yes you can import a NOGTECH Blackberry phone from Indonesia - but you'll have no warranty or support from WANGTECH and likely NOGTECH will tell you to get stuff if you are in the US.
    ...and that phone will more than likely not be compatible with north American 4G frequencies.

    Posted via CB10
    09-29-16 07:46 AM
  14. stlabrat's Avatar
    Has HTC lost literally billions of dollars because of their decision to make devices that run Android?
    they better find some way to make money (amazon by selling ads and cloud, sammy by components and cheap in house logistic, apple by ecosystem and cloud... all are on-going income. BB use to be the 5 dollar subscription fee.... was not jumped on cloud soon enough to get it going... once the server farm gone after the bbos7, it is hard to come by again. Google's server farm and optical fiber network is much to be admired). I am looking forward to see HTC's way to make "on going" income... BB10 bet on full control of hardware and software, the lost is a series of mistakes plus the carrier do not like the compression technology when they are sell by data usage (like iphone), they definitely do not like folk over 5 dollar over monthly... Plus the incentive apple provide, game play is not that much leveled. (apple also has problem deal with carrier - that is why the apple store is born... carrier don't have minimum qty to sell in the deal making for sammy or others, so droid got pushed front and center). Best wishes for HTC. (some of the industry design is nice... antenna, performance can use a bit improvement... how to make money? different story... just like bb, with 70% of your components from your competitor - sammy, it got be tough to handle).
    09-29-16 07:52 AM
  15. priteshmt's Avatar
    And here is another question to throw out there:

    Is Blackberry going to be picky regarding the licensing? Meaning if an OEM comes to them with a cr@p smart phone with 1GB RAM and a 2MP camera running whatever version of KitKat - will they still accept the licensing fee, slap the logo on it and thereby dilute the Blackberry name even further, all in the pursuit of the almighty $?

    Not saying the name is great currently, but going back to the Steve Jobs analogy, Apple brought him back when the clones failed to meet both the users and the company's standards. He then designed a new device from the ground up. Do any of us truly see this happening, where after a certain number of fiscal quarters, a whole new design team is brought back in to develop and take over OEM distribution of a new smartphone that is wholly Blackberry??

    I do not think so, my main concern is the dilution of the name. Software business notwithstanding, I am unsure that BB as a company, can withstand any more gut punches prior to just collapsing in it's entirety.
    I think such things can not be predicted or assumed or answered about BlackBerry.... what happens in reality in coming years can be observed & discussed
    09-29-16 08:02 AM
  16. priteshmt's Avatar
    I believe that BB is going to actually release the 2 promised BB10 updates - 10.3.3 and 10.3.4
    Indeed, they (BlackBerry) have tweeted about nearing completion of NIAP certification for 10.3.3 Update... so atleast 10.3.3 should be coming in just few weeks
    09-29-16 08:06 AM
  17. cgk's Avatar
    And here is another question to throw out there:

    Is Blackberry going to be picky regarding the licensing? Meaning if an OEM comes to them with a cr@p smart phone with 1GB RAM and a 2MP camera running whatever version of KitKat - will they still accept the licensing fee, slap the logo on it and thereby dilute the Blackberry name even further, all in the pursuit of the almighty $?

    Not saying the name is great currently, but going back to the Steve Jobs analogy, Apple brought him back when the clones failed to meet both the users and the company's standards. He then designed a new device from the ground up. Do any of us truly see this happening, where after a certain number of fiscal quarters, a whole new design team is brought back in to develop and take over OEM distribution of a new smartphone that is wholly Blackberry??

    I do not think so, my main concern is the dilution of the name. Software business notwithstanding, I am unsure that BB as a company, can withstand any more gut punches prior to just collapsing in it's entirety.
    This is a tricky question - if you make the guidelines too onerous you cut into the margins of partners and they are less likely to sign - if you make them too low, people will sign but they then pump out low-end phones that lead to bad press and tank what is less of the rather limited brand value of a blackberry phone.
    09-29-16 08:10 AM
  18. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Here's the difference:

    With the DTEK models, BB went to TCL, got a copy of their "devices of the near future" catalog, pointed at two future models, and said "we'll take this one and this one, with a couple of minor customizations." BB paid cash for those phones, and is responsible for developing the OS/software and for distributing and marketing them, which they're doing globally.

    Going forward, other companies will have to come to BB and pay to license the name, the custom software, and potentially the PKB design (and their samples will need to meet BB's quality guidelines before production can proceed), and otherwise BB will be uninvolved. BB won't be designing phones, won't be buying, stocking, or distributing phones, and won't be supporting phones. All of that will be up to the OEM - and it's expected that some (and for certain, at least the first one) is only licensing the brand for the Indonesian market - meaning it won't be sold elsewhere, nor will it be designed for, say, North America, which needs a different radio package than is typical of an "international" phone.

    It's far from certain that any OEM with global reach will license anything from BB - or even that anyone else will actually license anything period. It sounds like they're making deals with a Chinese company, but I think most other OEMs considering this licensing will have a "wait and see" and try to figure out if the BB brand is going to help make them a profit. If it doesn't, they won't continue to license it.

    Remember: OEMs are going to have to pay BB extra money - on top of their costs to develop, manufacture, and distribute the phones - to use the name and software, and if the name and the software doesn't allow them to sell those phones at a premium price, then there's no reason to license the name or software.
    Pretty much agree... except for the part about the custom software.

    During the conference call Chen said "some of the hardware security features, we will either license and provide to the third party we talk about, some might not take it. So a lot of them are the injection, for example key injection, its going to be coming from the chips they got from Qualcomm or somebody else."

    If a partner doesn't want the hardware "secrete sauce", will they want BlackBerry's version of the OS... or just the Apps. I don't really know the Indonesian market, but I "think" that it is more of a consumer type market for BlackBerry there. And that it was less about the security and more about the features and the brand.

    To me the future of BlackBerry Android might be on the cost cutting block in the near future, unless someone steps up and is willing to risk trying to do what BlackBerry hasn't been able to do.

    It's clear Chen is at the point he wants all the negative effects of hardware off his books, and cutting cost is what he does best.


    (only problem now is... for a company this size, is management over paid?)
    09-29-16 08:13 AM
  19. Shaz Brusqu's Avatar
    In my opinion, this is a best move by Blackberry to handover the hardware stuff to others especially if we all want to see Blackberry alive.

    With this new concept, now we'll see more frequent and good looking models of Blackberry devices equipped with Blackberry OS. The only thing they have to make sure is that, logo of Blackberry looks nicer up in front on devices, rather than hiding on the back, because whenever i use my passport, ppl look at me and ask ..,,,blackberry, woowww Guys, i was thinking of moving to android or iPhone just because of Whatapp issue, but believe me when i tested them... BB OS 10 is way far ahead and just perfect. Love to Blackberry!
    09-29-16 08:22 AM
  20. Wezard's Avatar
    I think we all saw this coming. In many ways it is similar to IBM. For those old enough to remember, there were PC's (only made by IBM) then there were "clones". Eventually the clones eroded IBM's market share to the point where they left the hardware market and concentrated on software and consulting. They're still a very profitable company today, but "meh", as they say.
    The difference there being Lenovo, technically no longer IBM, but IBM owns a substantial share of it and is still calling a lot of the shots.
    Which is really interesting considering Lenovo is a Chinese Govt owned business, (or was at the time of the sale, I assume it still is).
    09-29-16 08:29 AM
  21. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    The difference there being Lenovo, technically no longer IBM, but IBM owns a substantial share of it and is still calling a lot of the shots.
    Which is really interesting considering Lenovo is a Chinese Govt owned business, (or was at the time of the sale, I assume it still is).
    No they don't, since 2011.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...sale-terms-say
    09-29-16 08:54 AM
  22. murphcid's Avatar
    They should partner with HTC since HTC makes really solid phones (Google does), But I completely agree with your point.

    Here's the difference:

    With the DTEK models, BB went to TCL, got a copy of their "devices of the near future" catalog, pointed at two future models, and said "we'll take this one and this one, with a couple of minor customizations." BB paid cash for those phones, and is responsible for developing the OS/software and for distributing and marketing them, which they're doing globally.

    Going forward, other companies will have to come to BB and pay to license the name, the custom software, and potentially the PKB design (and their samples will need to meet BB's quality guidelines before production can proceed), and otherwise BB will be uninvolved. BB won't be designing phones, won't be buying, stocking, or distributing phones, and won't be supporting phones. All of that will be up to the OEM - and it's expected that some (and for certain, at least the first one) is only licensing the brand for the Indonesian market - meaning it won't be sold elsewhere, nor will it be designed for, say, North America, which needs a different radio package than is typical of an "international" phone.

    It's far from certain that any OEM with global reach will license anything from BB - or even that anyone else will actually license anything period. It sounds like they're making deals with a Chinese company, but I think most other OEMs considering this licensing will have a "wait and see" and try to figure out if the BB brand is going to help make them a profit. If it doesn't, they won't continue to license it.

    Remember: OEMs are going to have to pay BB extra money - on top of their costs to develop, manufacture, and distribute the phones - to use the name and software, and if the name and the software doesn't allow them to sell those phones at a premium price, then there's no reason to license the name or software.
    09-29-16 09:01 AM
  23. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    They should partner with HTC since HTC makes really solid phones (Google does), But I completely agree with your point.
    When it comes to pricing and marketing their phones, HTC is even more out of this world.

    Exhibit A: HTC A9. Sells for $649 CAD, exact same specs as a DTEK50.
    09-29-16 09:28 AM
  24. ardakca's Avatar
    Outsourcing is not partnering. They could have done something with Nokia against Google and Apple back then. But I find it highly unlikely from now on we'll see any innovative OS or hardware. Samsung could make something with the rumored foldable Galaxy X phone.
    09-29-16 09:44 AM
  25. cgk's Avatar
    When it comes to pricing and marketing their phones, HTC is even more out of this world.

    Exhibit A: HTC A9. Sells for $649 CAD, exact same specs as a DTEK50.
    Two turkeys don't make an eagle and all that...
    Niels B likes this.
    09-29-16 10:11 AM
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