[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Unfortunately he said "We don't build it and we don't pay for it", which means keyboards will be dependent on a partner, and a partner meeting BlackBerry's criteria, to protect the iconic branding.

Correct.. I think.

Would not rule out anything already in the works (Mercury), and to be honest, I get the feeling that this is all new to Chen too. We might just have to wait and see what happens. As so far Chen really has been as clear as most of us would have liked.

Future BB10 updates - still in the works?
Argon & Mercury - still in the works?
Android - still moving ahead with Nougat? (he made it sound like the licensing deal didn't include BlackBerry providing their full Android solution)

But yeah ultimately I think they are no planning to be responsible for designing, building or selling BlackBerry branded hardware.... it will be 3rd parties in markets where they have paid of the licensing rights for that particular market... or none at all.

[cbvinh]

I feel bb has done the best to wash its hands of the hardware. Reading the posts here about raw materials supply/ pricing/ negotiations & projecting unit prices/ sales, along with cheap hardware manufacturers from China, i cant help feeling that in a few years time device hardware is gonna become more of a bulk commodity business.
Say, there can b a few standardized hardware models to chose from - ultra premium, midrange and cheap.
A software co like Google / blackberry can order a certain number of units on a JIT basis, flash their custom roms on the hardware& we r good to go. A la Geeksphone.

This has already happened...

[blackmass]

This has already happened...

Still the device market is to crowded. This need to sort out.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[cgk]

John Chen also said 10.3.3 was coming in July.

I think he's very careful with words. I like Chen, I liked him even before it became unfashionable to do so here on the forums! LOL

He pretty much always talks about "plans", or "intentions", or similar. From which phrases the optimistic hereabouts generally mentally omit the "plan" wording and seize upon his words as a "promise".

notice as well he talks about people being 'really excited!' - everything he has said that about has been DOA.

[Jerry A]

Thank you, finally. Bloke most think that mobile parts are mass-produced and sit in a warehouse. In an industry where generational refresh is annual, no parts manufacturer would survive. Surplus parts mean a writedown, and generally an expensive one.

For example, the Z10.

[cbvinh]

But yeah ultimately I think they are no planning to be responsible for designing, building or selling BlackBerry branded hardware.... it will be 3rd parties in markets where they have paid of the licensing rights for that particular market... or none at all.

I imagine the licensing rights will just be to have Hub+ pre-installed and use "BlackBerry" in advertising (like for the Indonesian market where the name has value) and not have all the hardware hardening, because partners don't think customers will pay the additional cost for it.

[Witmen]

I truly wish HTC is doing well, but the truth is, beside sammy, which made majority profit by components and in house low cost components that benefit of their handset, no body, including HTC made that much money... (correction, except the IP stealing one in asia) "EPS -16.39" last time i checked... 20/20 always good, but in this case, more or less a wash, I can not really say if BB took the droid road few years back is any better. I am admire your confidence.
Why do profit-seeking companies keep making profitless Android phones? - The Verge

Has HTC lost literally billions of dollars because of their decision to make devices that run Android?

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I imagine the licensing rights will just be to have Hub+ pre-installed and use "BlackBerry" in advertising (like for the Indonesian market where the name has value) and not have all the hardware hardening, because partners don't think customers will pay the additional cost for it.

I'm afraid it's more like BlackBerry doesn't deem the cost of that level of development is justifiable... so aren't offering it. Might be they have EOL yet another BlackBerry OS....

[ardakca]

John Chen also said 10.3.3 was coming in July.

I think he's very careful with words. I like Chen, I liked him even before it became unfashionable to do so here on the forums! LOL

He pretty much always talks about "plans", or "intentions", or similar. From which phrases the optimistic hereabouts generally mentally omit the "plan" wording and seize upon his words as a "promise". Even his announcement of the end of hardware was similarly spun, it's just "internal" hardware design that is ending... and the optimists can seize on that as evidence that Christmas Elves, or somebody similar, will continue designing BB phones "externally" - even an externally designed Mercury, if such a thing is even possible or profitable for those Elves to do, is sure to appear.

TL,DR; Plans change. Nobody else is going to build a PKB phone unless it will cover their costs and be profitable.

I will open a thread just for you on the pkb )).

[anon(9353145)]

Let's just make it a bet. Loser will have to use a double-typing Q10 for one month as punishment.

That's not a bet, that's cruel and unusual punishment, lol.

[anon(9353145)]

Pictured next to a Q5 for scale... forget your huge phones, tiny is the new big!

Attachment 409171

So TCL / Alcatel DOES make PKB phones already, haha.

[anon(9353145)]

Unfortunately he said "We don't build it and we don't pay for it", which means keyboards will be dependent on a partner, and a partner meeting BlackBerry's criteria, to protect the iconic branding.

Seemed pretty confident about it, like pointing to the blank space on the wall, and using definitives like "there will be", etc. Language is important, and he can be slippery, but I'd bet it's already in the works.

[last_attempt]

so just to clear things up in my mind, with today's announcement there's no chance of another BlackBerry 10 phone in the future as I thought they announced the possibility of it a few months back?

Posted via CB10

[JeepBB]

So TCL / Alcatel DOES make PKB phones already, haha.

I stand corrected.

Welcome to the new DTEK70! It's a little smaller than I'd imagined.

[anon(9353145)]

John Chen also said 10.3.3 was coming in July.

I think he's very careful with words. I like Chen, I liked him even before it became unfashionable to do so here on the forums! LOL

He pretty much always talks about "plans", or "intentions", or similar. From which phrases the optimistic hereabouts generally mentally omit the "plan" wording and seize upon his words as a "promise". Even his announcement of the end of hardware was similarly spun, it's just "internal" hardware design that is ending... and the optimists can seize on that as evidence that Christmas Elves, or somebody similar, will continue designing BB phones "externally" - even an externally designed Mercury, if such a thing is even possible or profitable for those Elves to do, is sure to appear.

TL,DR; Plans change. Nobody else is going to build a PKB phone unless it will cover their costs and be profitable.

True, he did say that, hah. I too liked Chen pretty much from the onset. He's made a few blunders but overall I still think he's the right guy for the job. Frankly he's taken devices further than I would have guessed given the low sales figures. And if he takes BlackBerry completely out of mobile hardware, then that's just the way the cookie crumbles, life goes on. I'm certain that if he hadn't come in when he did, there wouldn't be a BlackBerry that is pivoting to software, or anything else for that matter.

Here's my 'feeling', as unscientific as it may be. The Mercury is already designed, it's in the hands of BlackBerry employees and is in the pipeline. The heavy lifting has already been done. In the past companies like Foxconn (Classic), and Wistron (Passport) have mass produced pkb devices. There may be other companies that have built PKB phones for BlackBerry, I dunno. Anyway, as long as the CAD drawings (or whatever they use in digital format) exist for the factory floor, it's going ahead. Just as the DTEK60 is going ahead, and if Evan Blass and other leaks are correct, it drops (or is announced) October 11. We even have the price.

Anyway, nothing is 100% certain until it happens, so it's possible the Mercury won't see the light of day. My gut says yes, and by April, 2017.

EDIT: Annnnd.... after the Mercury? All bets are off.

[anon(9353145)]

so just to clear things up in my mind, with today's announcement there's no chance of another BlackBerry 10 phone in the future as I thought they announced the possibility of it a few months back?

Posted via CB10

I'd say that's pretty much guaranteed. Like 99.9999999% certain (I never say never, lol).

[cgk]

Seemed pretty confident about it, like pointing to the blank space on the wall, and using definitives like "there will be", etc. Language is important, and he can be slippery, but I'd bet it's already in the works.

Only pay attention to what he says in earnings calls where he has to be more careful legally about his language.

[conite]

so just to clear things up in my mind, with today's announcement there's no chance of another BlackBerry 10 phone in the future as I thought they announced the possibility of it a few months back?

Posted via CB10

Everyone not living in fantasy land knew there would never be another BB10 device, for at least the past year now.

[anon(9353145)]

Only pay attention to what he says in earnings calls where he has to be more careful legally about his language.

Thanks, I missed the call, had to be to work early. Is there a transcript up yet? Doesn't Seeking Alpha publish them?

*Opens new browser tab and starts looking*

EDIT: For those interested: http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/call-tran...all-transcript

[last_attempt]

Everyone not living in fantasy land knew there would never be another BB10 device, for at least the past year now.

That's why I was surprised to hear them say that. Why would they have done that if it wasn't a possibility?

Doesn't make sense since they must have had a pretty good idea they were going to exit that market at that point


Posted via CB10

[conite]

That's why I was surprised to hear them say that. Why would they have done that if it wasn't a possibility?

Doesn't make sense since they must have had a pretty good idea they were going to exit that market at that point


Posted via CB10

They hadn't "ruled it out" at that point, but it would have taken an Earth-moving change in business fortunes to ever make it happen.

[cgk]

Thanks, I missed the call, had to be to work early. Is there a transcript up yet? Doesn't Seeking Alpha publish them?

*Opens new browser tab and starts looking*

EDIT: For those interested: BlackBerry's (BBRY) CEO John Chen on Q2 2017 Results - Earnings Call Transcript

Quite a bit. We really have not outsourced all our development- hardware environment, handset development effort. We are taking one or two products [DTEK50/DTEK60?] outsource it to others, but we've been developing our own handset also [Mercury].

So what I announced today, we will end that activity and rely completely on partners

So I take from this that mercury was taken out behind the woodshed.

[JeepBB]

True, he did say that, hah. I too liked Chen pretty much from the onset. He's made a few blunders but overall I still think he's the right guy for the job. Frankly he's taken devices further than I would have guessed given the low sales figures. And if he takes BlackBerry completely out of mobile hardware, then that's just the way the cookie crumbles, life goes on. I'm certain that if he hadn't come in when he did, there wouldn't be a BlackBerry that is pivoting to software, or anything else for that matter.

Here's my 'feeling', as unscientific as it may be. The Mercury is already designed, it's in the hands of BlackBerry employees and is in the pipeline. The heavy lifting has already been done. In the past companies like Foxconn (Classic), and Wistron (Passport) have mass produced pkb devices. There may be other companies that have built PKB phones for BlackBerry, I dunno. Anyway, as long as the CAD drawings (or whatever they use in digital format) exist for the factory floor, it's going ahead. Just as the DTEK60 is going ahead, and if Evan Blass and other leaks are correct, it drops (or is announced) October 11. We even have the price.

Anyway, nothing is 100% certain until it happens, so it's possible the Mercury won't see the light of day. My gut says yes, and by April, 2017.

I agree with everything you say in your 1st paragraph. Like you, I'm convinced that Chen has (probably) saved BlackBerry... even if the BlackBerry he's saved doesn't include the part that most here on the forums wanted!

Your 2nd paragraph... erm, no. I can't see any evidence that the Mercury design is well-advanced and, even if it were, I can't see why BB would give that design to an external party. A licence, I hear you say? Well...any licensee is going to want to see a return on his investment following the acquisition of a set of drawings and a prototype, and cover the costs of building a million(?) real devices. History shows that PKB devices really don't sell in any volume and I don't see that changing. And, because of Android's rules against square screens, the Mercury would surely be a large and unwieldy device with a 4:3 screen and a PKB underneath. So, would this proposed Mercury recoup the costs of production and be profitable do you think?

Chen saying he's looking for hardware licensees reminds me of Thor looking for BB10 licensees... and with a very similar probable outcome. While I'm sure BB would benefit from selling licences, I can't see anything in it for the licensee.

EDIT: And this, which was posted while I was typing, seems to support the ending of any internal BB development of the Mercury.

Quite a bit. We really have not outsourced all our development- hardware environment, handset development effort. We are taking one or two products [DTEK50/DTEK60?] outsource it to others, but we've been developing our own handset also [Mercury].

So what I announced today, we will end that activity and rely completely on partners
So I take from this that mercury was taken out behind the woodshed.

We'll maybe resume this in 6-months?

[anon(9353145)]

Only pay attention to what he says in earnings calls where he has to be more careful legally about his language.

So a few takeaways:

On outsourcing / licensing hardware and 'how much': "Quite a bit. We really have not outsourced all our development- hardware environment, handset development effort. We are taking one or two products outsource it to others, but we've been developing our own handset also." I would take this to be the Mercury.

and then later talking to Paul Streep of Scotia Capital he clarifies the term for exiting hardware (development, etc) and he says "Yes. Oh, yes. It will be this fiscal year, absolutely, yes. I mean, by middle of Q4 particularly, but it will be – it will complete in this fiscal year.". So basically 5 1/2 to 6 months. Which pegs out around the time of the rumoured launch of the Mercury.

and Simona Jankowski, Goldman Sachs asked about whether the 'Royalty' on devices is a fixed amount or variable: "In the case in Indonesia was a fixed amount, in other discussion we have, we haven't signed yet, but in other discussion we have its a little bit mix model, one of them particularly for example is a percentage of the total sale and in some cases it's the fixed amount but tier pricing."

Earlier he referred to making some headway in China and India, so perhaps that's where this other model originates.

Anyway, it sounds like long term he's looking to the real possibility of exiting hardware, but in the short term / transition it'll remain. My take.

[anon(9353145)]

So I take from this that mercury was taken out behind the woodshed.

Missed that in the second paragraph! Hmmmm, could be.