10-26-16 02:24 AM
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  1. cgk's Avatar
    If you spot an error in this let me know or thing any of this is factually incorrect let me know and I'll edit the post.

    So is Blackberry exiting hardware?

    Yes. If we define 'making hardware' as either making it yourself (priv) or contracting a third party to do it for you in an outsourcing model (Dtek50). This is what John Chen said at the earnings call:

    We really have not outsourced all our development - hardware development or handset development effort. We are taking one or two products outsource it to others, but we've been developing our own handset also.

    So with what I announced today, we will end that activity and rely completely on partners.
    Yikes! So they have finished making phones as of today!

    Not so fast, he say this will be finished by 28th January 2017 - so what happens between now and then is an unknown.

    I'm confused, I thought they were outsourcing their phones to someone else?

    Outsourcing is when you pay a partner or other organisation to perform a task for you. So the DTEK50 is an example of outsourcing. BBRY pays TCL to make the phone and all of the risk, servicing costs, sales costs and profits stay with Blackberry.

    So the DTEK50 and DTEK60 are phones made under the old business model which they are quiting?

    Yes - it doesn't mean that we couldn't see a future phone with the name DTEK on it but that would down to someone else licensing the name.

    So what are they actually doing if it's not outsourcing?

    They are licensing their IP, brand and their software to third parties. BBRY will take a royalty payment but the risk, servicing costs, sales and profits stay with the partner. Troy explains it really well here

    But the phones will be as secure as current blackberry phones?

    That is unclear - BBRY will issue guidelines to partners but we don't know what is in these guidelines. However on the matter of security, John Chen said this at the Q2 2017 earnings call:

    No, because we are - some of the hardware security features, we will either license and provide to the third party we talk about, some might not take it.
    Is there a minimum standard for hardware?

    We don't know what this is either - however the one licensing partner they currently have - an Indonesian Joint Venture 'BB Merah Putih' says that they are producing low-end consumer devices. what low-end means, we don't know.

    What other licensing partners currently exist?

    At the present moment, none.

    Will the Dtek60 come out?

    Yes - the DTEK60 was launched for sale on the 25th Oct.

    Will the mercury come out?

    John Chen has made conflict statements on this but said this to the financial post:

    “The one with the keyboard, I guess it’s kind of resting in my office… I’m testing it right now,” Chen said.

    “We’re not making any announcement of whether there is one or isn’t one. There exists in this world one,” he said.

    It’s standard for BlackBerry personnel to test devices before they go to market, Chen said before adding that some carriers have already seen the device. BlackBerry expects to make a decision on its release once they come back to him with a business case.

    “We’ll go from there, we’ll make a decision from there,” he said.
    However at the DTEK60 launch on the 25th Oct, they stated that was the last phone to be made and distributed by Blackberry themselves.

    Will Samsung or another big player license the keyboard or the software?

    The only clue we have about this is an interview in techcrunch where the head of devices Ralph Pini said:

    Pini admits that such partnerships are not likely to occur with Android’s biggest names, who have already developed their own in-house security and productivity offerings. The company is instead targeting what he deems “second- and third-tier” handset makers.
    What is a second or third tier player?

    This is hard to pin down in a factual sense but it might include alcatel, Blu, Doogee (depending on the region).


    wait a minute, someone told me there was an interview where he pointed at a wall and said we'll see a keyboard phone in 2017 - so he must be making one?

    What he actually says in that interview when asked "will we fill that?" [the space on the wall marked 2017] his response is

    Yes we're probably going to fill that. when we allow other people to build a handset.
    and when asked directly 'so the keyboard is coming back?' his response was:

    yes, they are very excited
    Will BBRY release BB10 10.3.3?

    This was promised for March, now Oct 2016. As far as we know besides some minor technical fixes, some security certification - there are no functional changes at the user level.

    Will we see another BB10 handset?

    In an interview with itbusiness.ca, head of devices Pini was quoted as saying:

    The move also doesn’t mean the death of BlackBerry 10, Pini says. BlackBerry is currently working towards its 10.3.3 release for existing devices and the OS could even see new life in the future.

    “I wouldn’t be surprised to see the software in another device,” he says. “But I couldn’t tell you when or where.”
    What about a dual-booting BB10/android device with a hypervisor?

    Goodbye.
    Last edited by cgk; 10-26-16 at 02:20 AM. Reason: Added direct quote about bb10
    10-02-16 06:43 AM
  2. 3Dee's Avatar
    Great post OP

    Posted via CB10
    10-02-16 06:52 AM
  3. AluminiumRims's Avatar
    I swear that Blackberry will never allow for licensing BB10 even if other companies asks for it. Chen's purpose was to chen BB10 (chen = can) so that it couldn't compete with US operating systems. Even if Blackberry can make money from licensing BB10 which is low risk, they will never allow it.
    10-02-16 06:58 AM
  4. kvndoom's Avatar
    Upvote for the last question/answer. Made me laugh!

    Blackberry Poptart SE - Cricket Wireless
    10-02-16 06:59 AM
  5. Old_Mil's Avatar

    So what are they actually doing if it's not outsourcing?

    They are licensing their IP, brand and their software to third parties. BBRY will take a royalty payment but the risk, servicing costs, sales and profits stay with the partner.

    What other licensing partners currently exist?

    At the present moment, none.

    Will Samsung or another big player license the keyboard?

    The only clue we have about this is an interview in techcrunch where the head of devices Ralph Pini said:

    ...such partnerships are not likely to occur...
    Bottom line.


    Posted via CB10
    10-02-16 07:05 AM
  6. Uzi's Avatar
    Great thread Cgk!

    posted via the last true BlackBerry
    10-02-16 07:11 AM
  7. cgk's Avatar
    Bottom line.


    Posted via CB10
    Not sure what you are asking? That is a quote from an interview with the head of devices - that is not my commentary.

    Edit: Ah - sorry, I get what you are saying.
    10-02-16 07:28 AM
  8. ardakca's Avatar
    If you spot an error in this let me know or thing any of this is factually incorrect let me know and I'll edit the post.

    So is Blackberry exiting hardware?

    Yes. If we define 'making hardware' as either making it yourself (priv) or contracting a third party to do it for you in an outsourcing model (Dtek50). This is what John Chen said at the earnings call:



    Yikes! So they have finished making phones as of today!

    Not so fast, he say this will be finished by 28th January 2017 - so what happens between now and then is an unknown.

    I'm confused, I thought they were outsourcing their phones to someone else?

    Outsourcing is when you pay a partner or other organisation to perform a task for you. So the DTEK50 is an example of outsourcing. BBRY pays TCL to make the phone and all of the risk, servicing costs, sales costs and profits stay with Blackberry.

    So what are they actually doing if it's not outsourcing?

    They are licensing their IP, brand and their software to third parties. BBRY will take a royalty payment but the risk, servicing costs, sales and profits stay with the partner.

    But the phones will be as secure as current blackberry phones?

    That is unclear - BBRY will issue guidelines to partners but we don't know what is in these guidelines. However on the matter of security, John Chen said this at the Q2 2017 earnings call:



    Is there a minimum standard for hardware?

    We don't know what this is either - however the one licensing partner they currently have - an Indonesian Joint Venture 'BB Merah Putih' says that they are producing low-end consumer devices. what low-end means, we don't know.

    What other licensing partners currently exist?

    At the present moment, none.

    Will Samsung or another big player license the keyboard?

    The only clue we have about this is an interview in techcrunch where the head of devices Ralph Pini said:



    Will the Dtek60 come out?

    The factual answer to this is - we don't know.

    Will the mercury come out?

    John Chen has made conflict statements on this but said this to the financial post:



    wait a minute, someone told me there was an interview where he pointed at a wall and said we'll see a keyboard phone in 2017 - so he must be making one?

    What he actually says in that interview when asked "will we fill that?" [the space on the wall marked 2017] his response is



    and when asked directly 'so the keyboard is coming back?' his response was:



    What about a dual-booting BB10/android device with a hypervisor?

    Goodbye.
    The one with the keyboard does not fall in line with your thinking. He says it is done and we are testing it. He just needs to make his mind to release or not. No partner or such is included for this model. That is why I feel enthusiastic about it. Apart from the pkb model all the things you say is %100 correct.
    10-02-16 07:51 AM
  9. ardakca's Avatar
    By the way for those wondering. You can preorder DTEK 60.

    http://m.androidcentral.com/you-can-...60-ncix-canada
    10-02-16 07:55 AM
  10. cgk's Avatar
    The one with the keyboard does not fall in line with your thinking. He says it is done and we are testing it. He just needs to make his mind to release or not. No partner or such is included for this model. That is why I feel enthusiastic about it. Apart from the pkb model all the things you say is %100 correct.

    I've quoted what Chen has said about the matter towards the bottom - he saids he has the prototype but he's not sure if he's going to release it - that's the factual accurate statement - it's a direct quote from him.

    I've moved the two questions together to make that clearer. I've also added the link you provided to the pre-order.
    10-02-16 07:59 AM
  11. ardakca's Avatar
    I've quoted what Chen has said about the matter towards the bottom - he saids he has the prototype but he's not sure if he's going to release it - that's the factual accurate statement - it's a direct quote from him.

    I've moved the two questions together to make that clearer. I've also added the link you provided to the pre-order.
    Yeap I know. Just my comment about it . Dual Boot phone would be great though lol.
    10-02-16 08:04 AM
  12. donnation's Avatar
    Can I add one?

    Will Blackberry release 10.3.3?

    Answer: Probably, but it won't mean anything to the consumer from a functionality standpoint so quit asking about it.
    cribble2k likes this.
    10-02-16 08:10 AM
  13. cgk's Avatar
    Can I add one?

    Will Blackberry release 10.3.3?

    Answer: Probably, but it won't mean anything to the consumer from a functionality standpoint so quit asking about it.
    In gym - will add something when i get back.
    10-02-16 08:41 AM
  14. ardakca's Avatar
    After thinking, Chen is a maniac. . Why tell they will quit handset business if you did not make your mind about releasing the last phone. He is a funny guy.
    JulesDB likes this.
    10-02-16 08:42 AM
  15. sorinv's Avatar
    I swear that Blackberry will never allow for licensing BB10 even if other companies asks for it. Chen's purpose was to chen BB10 (chen = can) so that it couldn't compete with US operating systems. Even if Blackberry can make money from licensing BB10 which is low risk, they will never allow it.
    This!
    10-02-16 09:25 AM
  16. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    Will the Dtek60 come out?

    The factual answer to this is - we have no official announcement from Blackberry - however a preorder page from a third party has gone live.
    I might want to point out, all those third party listings are actually sourced from BlackBerry's main distributor, Ingram Micro.

    BLACKBERRY DEVICES BLACKBERRY DTEK60 RETAIL NA - Product Details
    BB-JAM215 likes this.
    10-02-16 09:25 AM
  17. cgk's Avatar
    I might want to point out, all those third party listings are actually sourced from BlackBerry's main distributor, Ingram Micro.

    BLACKBERRY DEVICES BLACKBERRY DTEK60 RETAIL NA - Product Details
    I'll edit it in a bit.
    10-02-16 09:27 AM
  18. mcstravi's Avatar
    I'm still a bit confused.
    Are the DTEK50/60 part of the new strategy (non BlackBerry designed phones/licensed products) so these releases will continue into the future or is the end of hardware / licensing something completely different that we haven't seen yet.


    Posted via CB10
    10-02-16 09:32 AM
  19. cgk's Avatar
    I'm still a bit confused.
    Are the DTEK50/60 part of the new strategy (non BlackBerry designed phones/licensed products) so these releases will continue into the future or is the end of hardware / licensing something completely different that we haven't seen yet.


    Posted via CB10
    They represent the old strategy of outsourcing, if we see a dtek in the future is because someone else has licensed the name. Bbry based on the information we have product no more devices themselves.
    10-02-16 09:36 AM
  20. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    BTW... missed an opportunity there.

    Bl-exit? Black-xit? BlackBe-xit
    Uzi, JeepBB and darkehawke like this.
    10-02-16 10:38 AM
  21. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    Nicely done on the FAQ. Still hoping for the Mercury release to go through but have tempered my expectations since the earnings call and subsequent interviews.

    Any thoughts on to how long before we hear more on the new strategy, good or bad. I'm not optimistic but hope they manage to pull it off. When does the Indonesian factory go live? Any indication of when they might pump out the first licensed device?

    If it all goes south on licensing, maybe Samsung will do a trial run of a PKB if the field is completely open to them. Pipe dream probably but they seem to be the best equipped to be able to make it happen at minimal risk to themselves.
    10-02-16 11:02 AM
  22. cgk's Avatar
    I've added a (to my eyes) rather strange claim that second and third tier players are interested in BB10.
    10-02-16 11:16 AM
  23. ardakca's Avatar
    BTW... missed an opportunity there.

    Bl-exit? Black-xit? BlackBe-xit
    Chenx-it
    10-02-16 11:26 AM
  24. Sairos's Avatar
    Very good post. If only the press spend their time writing similar constructive posts, not their usual nonsense.
    10-02-16 11:43 AM
  25. mcstravi's Avatar
    They represent the old strategy of outsourcing, if we see a dtek in the future is because someone else has licensed the name. Bbry based on the information we have product no more devices themselves.
    I'm still not 100% convinced about this.
    The DTEK50 is the first phone that would have been outsourced in this way (I mean by using hardware already available by another company). I would have assumed they would have already known the exit from hardware was a done deal well before releasing this phone and to shift strategy for one or two if you count the DTEK60 doesn't make sense. The Priv was the last BlackBerry designed phone (and possibly the Mercury will become the last, if released, so it can try to take advantage of "end of an era" nostalgia BlackBerry fans.
    The DTEK50/60 fits the description of using 2nd/3rd tier providers for hardware licensing.


    Posted via CB10
    anon(3641385) likes this.
    10-02-16 11:48 AM
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