06-01-16 11:34 AM
72 123
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  1. cbvinh's Avatar
    Apple upgrades the camera and processor with each new model iPhone.
    Androids are the same, just bigger than iPhones..

    BlackBerry should study this.
    BlackBerry does as well, for their high-end. (Mid- and low-end re-use older parts.) The OP's complaint is that BlackBerry isn't sticking to a consistent form-factor, which would make BlackBerry's easy to recognize to the general public.
    05-25-16 05:27 PM
  2. Ment's Avatar
    BlackBerry does as well, for their high-end. (Mid- and low-end re-use older parts.) The OP's complaint is that BlackBerry isn't sticking to a consistent form-factor, which would make BlackBerry's easy to recognize to the general public.
    I think OP wants BB to share form factors with its Android venture ie spread the hardware costs over two platforms so phones with BB10 Classic2 or Passport2 design language get developed but that can't happen because Google doesn't allow those form factors. Otherwise he'd just ask for a BB10 PRIV/Rome etc .
    05-25-16 05:39 PM
  3. Denise in Los Angeles's Avatar
    BlackBerry does as well, for their high-end. (Mid- and low-end re-use older parts.) The OP's complaint is that BlackBerry isn't sticking to a consistent form-factor, which would make BlackBerry's easy to recognize to the general public.
    My point is that Apple and Samsungs phones do stick to using a consistent form-factor in their best-selling models. The changes (read improvements are better camera, faster processor, bigger screens) are what the customers want, so that is what is upgraded in their iPhone, Galaxy and Note models.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    05-25-16 05:59 PM
  4. Andrew Sheil's Avatar
    You need to check your history bud, the S3 was a massive success and put Samsung in the true lead in the smartphone game! And then the S4 was an even bigger success. The S3 and 4 were the true iPhone killers cause they're the phones that many iPhone users actually made the jump to in mass numbers

    Posted via CB10
    Noted, but I believe my point is still valid. The commitment to a consistent offering, incrementaly updated has paid off.

    Posted via CB10
    05-26-16 01:46 AM
  5. Andrew Sheil's Avatar
    BlackBerry does as well, for their high-end. (Mid- and low-end re-use older parts.) The OP's complaint is that BlackBerry isn't sticking to a consistent form-factor, which would make BlackBerry's easy to recognize to the general public.
    Yes I think having an easy to recognise device is key, as one user said 'distinctively blackberry'

    But I believe it goes even deeper than that. I believe the consumer needs to be reassured that what they are buying is not a risk. Blackberry can address some of this by actually committing to a device rather than tossing it after it fails to beat the iphone first time. They need to build consumer confidence.

    Posted via CB10
    05-26-16 01:55 AM
  6. Andrew Sheil's Avatar
    I think OP wants BB to share form factors with its Android venture ie spread the hardware costs over two platforms so phones with BB10 Classic2 or Passport2 design language get developed but that can't happen because Google doesn't allow those form factors. Otherwise he'd just ask for a BB10 PRIV/Rome etc .
    I just want (as a consumer) blackberry to give me a reason to commit my hard earned money. A shiny new toy is one thing, but am I confident that that device will be updated and looked after? No is the answer at the moment.

    But say there was a priv 2, well then now i'm a little more confident that they may not just take my money and run. I might start to think, 'well hey blackberry might stick to this design, maybe I can take a risk on them now'. Priv 3 and heaven forbid priv4 would only build on this consumer confidence.





    On a side note, if google doesn't 'allow' the blackberry form factor then it is up to chen and co to convince them otherwise. Rules are only rules until you can give someone a good reason to change them. From personal experience having used android apps on a rectangular screen and also on the classic I actually prefer the square screen for a lot of them.

    Posted via CB10
    05-26-16 02:25 AM
  7. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    The other things is that you don't see other manufactures say that they might get out of the hardware business. No one will buy phones from a company who's CEO always talks about existing the business. People want to buy from a company that supports its hardware. You would think that Chen was smart enough to know that.
    05-26-16 09:38 AM
  8. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    blackberry has a business model?
    they do?.............................shocking.......... who started that rumor.....................woof!
    techvisor likes this.
    05-26-16 10:26 AM
  9. DueNorthBB's Avatar
    They can't afford to do any big bang hardware projects anymore. They have failed on too many of them:

    - Storm (with lots of marketing)
    - Playbook (with lots of marketing)
    - BlackBerry 10 (with lots of marketing)

    Good or bad marketing is one thing but they did spend a lot (or get partners to spend a lot).

    I just finished reading Losing the Signal, and those big project failures ate up the company. You can't expect to miss so many times and not have any effect on the company.

    So now they are doing more "smaller" projects. Which from what it looks so far, getting mixed results. No home runs but perhaps a single.

    - Passport (there are multiple versions of the Passport which other models don't have).
    - Priv (there will be more Android phones. Not a big failure)

    Things which they did which was done LATE (these were suggested earlier but got lost during company infighting):
    - Cross platform BBM (Jim wanted to make it SMS2.0)
    - Android BlackBerry (talked about before BB10)

    I like the smaller approach. They are "dabbling" into multiple areas and seeing what works. Less risk and less harmful to the company if it goes south. If something works, they can add more resources to it. It is a more conservative approach but given their track record of big failures, I don't blame them.
    app_Developer and web99 like this.
    05-26-16 11:42 AM
  10. Bbnivende's Avatar
    A common design language:

    http://www.berryreview.com/2011/08/0...ices-official/

    All I am saying is stick with some common design elements.
    Andrew Sheil likes this.
    05-26-16 11:56 AM
  11. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    They can't afford to do any big bang hardware projects anymore. They have failed on too many of them:

    - Storm (with lots of marketing)
    - Playbook (with lots of marketing)
    - BlackBerry 10 (with lots of marketing)


    Good or bad marketing is one thing but they did spend a lot (or get partners to spend a lot).

    I just finished reading Losing the Signal, and those big project failures ate up the company. You can't expect to miss so many times and not have any effect on the company.

    So now they are doing more "smaller" projects. Which from what it looks so far, getting mixed results. No home runs but perhaps a single.

    - Passport (there are multiple versions of the Passport which other models don't have).
    - Priv (there will be more Android phones. Not a big failure)

    Things which they did which was done LATE (these were suggested earlier but got lost during company infighting):
    - Cross platform BBM (Jim wanted to make it SMS2.0)
    - Android BlackBerry (talked about before BB10)

    I like the smaller approach. They are "dabbling" into multiple areas and seeing what works. Less risk and less harmful to the company if it goes south. If something works, they can add more resources to it. It is a more conservative approach but given their track record of big failures, I don't blame them.
    It wasn't lots of marketing. And one of the reasons that they failed was the software wasn't completed before they rolled out the hardware. And look at the software failures. They just don't have a vision or good management to do hardware or software. They are throwing things at the wall and hoping one of them sticks, that isn't a good business model.
    Andrew Sheil likes this.
    05-26-16 12:10 PM
  12. Ment's Avatar
    On a side note, if google doesn't 'allow' the blackberry form factor then it is up to chen and co to convince them otherwise. Rules are only rules until you can give someone a good reason to change them. From personal experience having used android apps on a rectangular screen and also on the classic I actually prefer the square screen for a lot of them.

    Posted via CB10
    You can only change rules you have no leverage on if you can convince the rulemaker that it benefits them. BB lacks that. Google doesn't want to change its dev tools accommodate it and devs don't want to test their apps against another screen ratio. The number of new Google accts BB brings is the change under a couch cushion.
    05-26-16 12:31 PM
  13. Dirtymike14's Avatar
    Noted, but I believe my point is still valid. The commitment to a consistent offering, incrementaly updated has paid off.

    Posted via CB10
    Oh don't get me wrong I completely agree with you, it's just that no BlackBerry phone put out in the past few years has been successful enough to be worthy of an upgrade

    Posted via CB10
    05-26-16 01:16 PM
  14. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    It wasn't lots of marketing. And one of the reasons that they failed was the software wasn't completed before they rolled out the hardware. And look at the software failures. They just don't have a vision or good management to do hardware or software. They are throwing things at the wall and hoping one of them sticks, that isn't a good business model.
    I agree.... software has always been BlackBerry's weakness. Or matching the hardware and software.

    The Company has always had issue with departments not communicating with one another... which has resulted in delays being a common theme for BlackBerry, and for some hardware not being enough to run the software. Storm and Z10 both had these issues.

    With the PlayBook the hardware was pretty good (speakers still the best I've heard on a tablet)... but the software made the PlayBook basically a 2nd screen for a BlackBerry owner. Anyone without a BlackBerry was pretty much lost as to what they were suppose to do with it. For our small company the problem was the lack of a good GPU. opening PDF drawings was slow and cumbersome.... the iPad from the year befroe would breeze through those same documents.
    05-26-16 01:47 PM
  15. Andrew Sheil's Avatar
    Oh don't get me wrong I completely agree with you, it's just that no BlackBerry phone put out in the past few years has been successful enough to be worthy of an upgrade

    Posted via CB10
    But what is defined as successful? Who sets that bar? Why is the priv or the passport or the classic not successful enough for an upgrade?

    In my opinion they were. They sold x number of units enough to return a profit, were rated quite highly in reviews probably a 7/10 on average. But because they didn't beat the iphone they are not good enough to upgrade? What was so wrong with all these phones that not one of them was good enough to be upgraded instead of replaced.

    Blackberry has started from scratch 8 times now.

    Posted via CB10
    05-26-16 02:55 PM
  16. liveonparadise's Avatar
    In a very saturated android world, BlackBerry need to make the best phone with cheaper price tag (I said cheaper, not cheap).. and by best I mean in everything, there's just no room for compromise

    And I know this is subjective, but the market is so saturated that even samsung has to use the edge without any real functionality. It's for the look

     Passport via CB10 || previous device : Q10, Z3, Z10, Storm 9530, 8520, 8530, 9000, 8320
    05-26-16 02:56 PM
  17. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    But what is defined as successful? Who sets that bar? Why is the priv or the passport or the classic not successful enough for an upgrade?

    In my opinion they were. They sold x number of units enough to return a profit, were rated quite highly in reviews probably a 7/10 on average. But because they didn't beat the iphone they are not good enough to upgrade? What was so wrong with all these phones that not one of them was good enough to be upgraded instead of replaced.

    Blackberry has started from scratch 8 times now.

    Posted via CB10
    Who said they made a profit? BlackBerry hardware hasn't made a profit since BB10 was launched.

    John Chen is the guy that currently is setting the bar on what devices are a success. It's his opinion that matters...

    I "think" that for the Passport and the Classic... if was a matter of timing. The move to Android and the subsequent agreements needed for GPS probable meant that no new BB10 (Forked Android) devcies would be released. But the form factor of both those devices excluded them from becoming Android designs.
    05-26-16 03:15 PM
  18. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Who said they made a profit? BlackBerry hardware hasn't made a profit since BB10 was launched.

    John Chen is the guy that currently is setting the bar on what devices are a success. It's his opinion that matters...

    I "think" that for the Passport and the Classic... if was a matter of timing. The move to Android and the subsequent agreements needed for GPS probable meant that no new BB10 (Forked Android) devcies would be released. But the form factor of both those devices excluded them from becoming Android designs.
    I agree with you but I think the market place can support one good PKB. It can not be too large and it has to have a good KB and run Android. I also think that a small Bold style phone running Android would be not be DOA.

    Enterprise wants a VKB hence the Rome model.

    I do not see a future for the PRIV. You either need a PKB or you do not.
    05-26-16 03:46 PM
  19. donnation's Avatar

    I do not see a future for the PRIV. You either need a PKB or you do not.
    I could deal with having the option of both, just not the crappy one they put on the Priv.
    05-26-16 09:33 PM
  20. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I could deal with having the option of both, just not the crappy one they put on the Priv.
    Before I got a Z10, I could not type on a VKB at all. Now the reverse is true. My 9900 feels alien to me. I would have a hard time switching back and forth. I want one or the other but perhaps that is just an opinion .
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    05-26-16 11:27 PM
  21. Andrew Sheil's Avatar
    A lot of you guys seem to be missing my point or falling into the trap blackberry is. To quote one of my earlier posts

    "Do they honestly believe that the Hamburg or Rome will be the saviour of the company; that there exists a magical mix of specs, price, design and form factor that will open the door? If only they could just stumble across it!"

    Blackberry will never find a 'perfect' device, there is only a certain portion of the market that they can grasp. I believe its much bigger than they currently have but they will only get there if they commit to a device and start to build some consumer confidence.

    A lot of people on here seem to think the answer lies within providing a certain set of features that has yet to be attempted. We have played that game 8 times now and it isn't working. The hamburg and rome are essentially the same concept as the bb10 launch phones.

    Unless blackberry commits to a product for at least three iterations then its not a true representation of that products potential. Some may balk at that but blackberry have had enough cash to waste on eight completely new concepts so they could have wasted it on committing to one of them two times more.

    Posted via CB10
    05-27-16 07:51 AM
  22. Bbnivende's Avatar
    A lot of you guys seem to be missing my point or falling into the trap blackberry is. To quote one of my earlier posts

    "Do they honestly believe that the Hamburg or Rome will be the saviour of the company; that there exists a magical mix of specs, price, design and form factor that will open the door? If only they could just stumble across it!"

    Blackberry will never find a 'perfect' device, there is only a certain portion of the market that they can grasp. I believe its much bigger than they currently have but they will only get there if they commit to a device and start to build some consumer confidence.

    A lot of people on here seem to think the answer lies within providing a certain set of features that has yet to be attempted. We have played that game 8 times now and it isn't working. The hamburg and rome are essentially the same concept as the bb10 launch phones.

    Unless blackberry commits to a product for at least three iterations then its not a true representation of that products potential. Some may balk at that but blackberry have had enough cash to waste on eight completely new concepts so they could have wasted it on committing to one of them two times more.

    Posted via CB10
    What would you have them build? It seems clear enough that they need a PKB and an all touch. It seems clear enough that BB10 is too expensive to build and maintain. The only question in my mind is whether they should also make a small Bold style Android device.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 05-27-16 at 09:40 AM.
    05-27-16 08:51 AM
  23. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    A lot of you guys seem to be missing my point or falling into the trap blackberry is. To quote one of my earlier posts

    "Do they honestly believe that the Hamburg or Rome will be the saviour of the company; that there exists a magical mix of specs, price, design and form factor that will open the door? If only they could just stumble across it!"

    Blackberry will never find a 'perfect' device, there is only a certain portion of the market that they can grasp. I believe its much bigger than they currently have but they will only get there if they commit to a device and start to build some consumer confidence.

    A lot of people on here seem to think the answer lies within providing a certain set of features that has yet to be attempted. We have played that game 8 times now and it isn't working. The hamburg and rome are essentially the same concept as the bb10 launch phones.

    Unless blackberry commits to a product for at least three iterations then its not a true representation of that products potential. Some may balk at that but blackberry have had enough cash to waste on eight completely new concepts so they could have wasted it on committing to one of them two times more.

    Posted via CB10
    In their position I don't think BlackBerry can commit to anything that far in advance. Profitability is still just a chance if Chen can get cost down lower and cand find a stable customer base that is willing to buy pretty quickly he "might" be able to stay in hardware.

    I think the problem is how does he convince those BB10 and BBOS corporate users to make the switch to Android and stay with BlackBerry?

    Consumer Confidence... don't think they believe that consumers are going to really care about BlackBerry products from this point out. With the poor sales of the PRIV and the market full of low end devcies or last year's flagships at $200 - $300 off... what carrier needs a $400 - $500 BlackBerry that isn't competitive? Only enterprise will buy these devices (and a few fans), so enterprise is the only customer they need to build confidence for.

    I think enterprise is more worried about what OS BlackBerry will be running, or if BlackBerry will even be selling hardware in the future. The BBOS to BB10 to now Android changes in the last few years have damaged their confidence in BlackBerry much more than no device continuity.
    05-27-16 09:06 AM
  24. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Double post



    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 05-27-16 at 09:37 AM.
    05-27-16 09:09 AM
  25. DueNorthBB's Avatar
    It wasn't lots of marketing. And one of the reasons that they failed was the software wasn't completed before they rolled out the hardware. And look at the software failures. They just don't have a vision or good management to do hardware or software. They are throwing things at the wall and hoping one of them sticks, that isn't a good business model.
    Go read the book, Losing the Signal. It is surprising that BlackBerry is still around now...
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    05-27-16 09:30 AM
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