[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Go read the book, Losing the Signal. It is surprising that BlackBerry is still around now...

A case where the founders of the business... didn't make good businessmen. They lived in the here and now and it seems like BlackBerry never really made any plans for the future and didn't listen to what their customers asked for (or at least not their consumer customers).

When I first came to CrackBerry in 2007... there was a lot of debate about BBOS and the limitations of Java and how it was used in BBOS. From the time PDA's first showed up in the 90's everyone wanted a computer in their pocket. A BlackBerry was great, but it wasn't a desktop replacement. That BlackBerry wasn't working on some update OS already was astounding to me.

[Bluenoser63]

Go read the book, Losing the Signal. It is surprising that BlackBerry is still around now...

What is in the past doesn't matter to the continued mess that current management makes on a weekly basis.

[DueNorthBB]

What is in the past doesn't matter to the continued mess that current management makes on a weekly basis.

It isn't by chance certain things happen (hardware focus, no cross platform BBM, Storm). You need to learn from the past mistakes to avoid them in the future. In BlackBerry case, both Jim & Mike have different visions for BlackBerry (Hardware vs Software). You can't run a company properly with split vision from the top.

At least so far with John, his vision is clear with Software first. This vision will be closer to Jim who is pretty much the business mastermind of BlackBerry in the old days.

[crazy mazy]

To me the biggest downfall for Blackberry started not with Mike and Tim it was when T. Heins took over that they really went down hill and almost folded. Chen has been working hard to clean up the mess, and I think we will finally see some success coming soon.The passport was not J. Chen's doing, it was well on it's way to being released, so Basically what John Chen did was limit inventory so that they wouldn't get stuck with a Hugh inventory in case it didn't sell well., like happened will T. Heins, with the Z10. The Priv was definitely John Chen's doing, and he should of known better to release a phone with those specs, at such a high price point. That having been said, BlackBerry did improve upon and existing design, remember the Passport SE. The passport would have been more successful it it was a standard aspect ratio, as well as would of had more apps available (silly little mistakes add up). Also now they would of been able to make an Android version, with little cost , but not with the current version because It would not gt approved by Google.

[Bluenoser63]

To me the biggest downfall for Blackberry started not with Mike and Tim it was when T. Heins took over that they really went down hill and almost folded. Chen has been working hard to clean up the mess, and I think we will finally see some success coming soon.The passport was not J. Chen's doing, it was well on it's way to being released, so Basically what John Chen did was limit inventory so that they wouldn't get stuck with a Hugh inventory in case it didn't sell well., like happened will T. Heins, with the Z10. The Priv was definitely John Chen's doing, and he should of known better to release a phone with those specs, at such a high price point. That having been said, BlackBerry did improve upon and existing design, remember the Passport SE. The passport would have been more successful it it was a standard aspect ratio, as well as would of had more apps available (silly little mistakes add up). Also now they would of been able to make an Android version, with little cost , but not with the current version because It would not gt approved by Google.

Chen doesn't have a clue about hardware or the consumer market. All I see from him is hail mary after hail mary with no ideas about how to actually score a touchdown.

[Bluenoser63]

It isn't by chance certain things happen (hardware focus, no cross platform BBM, Storm). You need to learn from the past mistakes to avoid them in the future. In BlackBerry case, both Jim & Mike have different visions for BlackBerry (Hardware vs Software). You can't run a company properly with split vision from the top.

At least so far with John, his vision is clear with Software first. This vision will be closer to Jim who is pretty much the business mastermind of BlackBerry in the old days.

Well if he is software first, he better start learning how to release software products. Please tell us one software product that was on time, had the necessary and basic features and wasn't really buggy.

[cbvinh]

Chen doesn't have a clue about hardware or the consumer market. All I see from him is hail mary after hail mary with no ideas about how to actually score a touchdown.

He doesn't care about hardware or the consumer market, so doesn't need a clue. He can hire other people to take care of those things until software becomes 100% of BlackBerry's revenue. That is, not to say, that if hardware could be successful, he wouldn't embrace it. If anything, he's been letting hardware have too many chances ("hail mary's") without pulling the plug.

[cbvinh]

Well if he is software first, he better start learning how to release software products. Please tell us one software product that was on time, had the necessary and basic features and wasn't really buggy.

Maybe someone can enlighten us on the Enterprise stuff, but for device software, it sure seems like the Android OS releases have been timely.

[Bluenoser63]

Maybe someone can enlighten us on the Enterprise stuff, but for device software, it sure seems like the Android OS releases have been timely.

So why did it take so long for MM to appear? Is the HUB complete? Where is the BB Experience Suite? Blend? For the Non BlackBerry Android they ride on others coattails. For BB Android stuff, it is the same old incomplete and not timely.

[Bbnivende]

So why did it take so long for MM to appear? Is the HUB complete? Where is the BB Experience Suite? Blend? For the Non BlackBerry Android they ride on others coattails. For BB Android stuff, it is the same old incomplete and not timely.

My Samsung that I purchased in December 2015 has a security update from March 2016 and no MM. The Cobalt experience to date suggests that it would be difficult to bring The BlackBerry experience to other makes of phones running various different Android operating systems.

[Bluenoser63]

My Samsung that I purchased in December 2015 has a security update from March 2016 and no MM. The Cobalt experience to date suggests that it would be difficult to bring The BlackBerry experience to other makes of phones running various different Android operating systems.

So they aren't a very good software company to figure out how to make things work. Thanks for confirming what I said.

[Bbnivende]

So they aren't a very good software company to figure out how to make things work. Thanks for confirming what I said.

No , BlackBerry only provides these apps for their own product not for other devices. If someone can not get Google Play Services to work on their Passport etc that is not BlackBerry's problem either.

[Bluenoser63]

No , BlackBerry only provides these apps for their own product not for other devices. If someone can not get Google Play Services to work on their Passport etc that is not BlackBerry's problem either.

LOL. So BlackBerry doesn't supply software that runs on other devices? BlackBerry software only runs on BlackBerry devices? How about Link, Blend, BES, Momentics? If BlackBerry stops making devices, then I guess they will go out of business. But I thought that Chen wants to be a software services company. That is hard to do when you can't figure out how to write and support software on devices that you don't make and you don't make devices. If BlackBerry has trouble writing software for Android, then they better get shut the doors right now.

And what about BBM for iOS and Android. I guess that isn't BlackBerry's problem either if it doesn't work.

[Bbnivende]

LOL. So BlackBerry doesn't supply software that runs on other devices? BlackBerry software only runs on BlackBerry devices? How about Link, Blend, BES, Momentics? If BlackBerry stops making devices, then I guess they will go out of business. But I thought that Chen wants to be a software services company. That is hard to do when you can't figure out how to write and support software on devices that you don't make and you don't make devices. If BlackBerry has trouble writing software for Android, then they better get shut the doors right now.

And what about BBM for iOS and Android. I guess that isn't BlackBerry's problem either if it doesn't work.

You are off topic. The fact that Colbalt's solutions may not work for all users does not reflect badly on BlackBerry. BlackBerry needs to spend more money on developers to enhance the products that they sell. Unless an Android user prefers a plain vanilla phone, there is a gap in the market for a BlackBerry skinned product . I am talking about the type of features that made previous BlackBerry devices "handy" and productive.

Yes, features like the Link and Blend should be retained and enhanced. They need to be hiring not firing in their phone software division.

[DueNorthBB]

Well if he is software first, he better start learning how to release software products. Please tell us one software product that was on time, had the necessary and basic features and wasn't really buggy.

Heck, with your criteria Microsoft would fail. Microsoft have BILLIONS to spend on software and that is what they are built from. Look what is happening with Windows Phone... and Microsoft is primarily software.

BlackBerry has a much more limited amount of resources compared to Microsoft so they aren't doing too bad now with what they have.

[Andrew Sheil]

What would you have them build? It seems clear enough that they need a PKB and an all touch. It seems clear enough that BB10 is too expensive to build and maintain. The only question in my mind is whether they should also make a small Bold style Android device.

Posted via CB10

I would have them commit to a device they have already built such as the passport, priv or classic etc.

This is the whole point of my post. Lol.



Posted via CB10

[Andrew Sheil]

In their position I don't think BlackBerry can commit to anything that far in advance. Profitability is still just a chance if Chen can get cost down lower and cand find a stable customer base that is willing to buy pretty quickly he "might" be able to stay in hardware.

I think the problem is how does he convince those BB10 and BBOS corporate users to make the switch to Android and stay with BlackBerry?

Consumer Confidence... don't think they believe that consumers are going to really care about BlackBerry products from this point out. With the poor sales of the PRIV and the market full of low end devcies or last year's flagships at $200 - $300 off... what carrier needs a $400 - $500 BlackBerry that isn't competitive? Only enterprise will buy these devices (and a few fans), so enterprise is the only customer they need to build confidence for.

I think enterprise is more worried about what OS BlackBerry will be running, or if BlackBerry will even be selling hardware in the future. The BBOS to BB10 to now Android changes in the last few years have damaged their confidence in BlackBerry much more than no device continuity.

He wont find a stable customer base that is willing to take a risk on a brand new concept. The customer base for that is us. We are not so many.

Alright perhaps I should have used the phrase 'customer confidence'. I think enterprise would be even more risk adverse. Imagine your in charge of IT. Would you consider purchasing hundreds of devices of a brand new product, from a company that in recent history has a habit of building a phone and then dumping it for something else.

If blackberry cant even commit to a device why should anyone?

Posted via CB10

[Andrew Sheil]

Stay on topic guys.

Posted via CB10

[Bbnivende]

I would have them commit to a device they have already built such as the passport, priv or classic etc.

This is the whole point of my post. Lol.



Posted via CB10

I think that carriers would only be supportive of a Classic/ Passport adjusted for a 4:3 screen. The Rome seems to a narrower Passport. The 1:1 screen is not supported by Android. As the last viable PKB smartphone, I think the Rome would sell reasonably well.

The Hamburg is all about styling. It needs to feel and look premium but with mid range internals.

The PRIV is too costly to make and the slider is a format that most consumers do not want a slider.

It will not happen but I would love to see a revamped and updated 9900 running Android.

Posted via CB10

[ChainPunch]

In order for Chen to figure out what device form factors to support long turn he needs sales data. With the release of the 2 new devices, this will given Chen the data he needs on three form factors: slider, full touchscreen, and classic style blackberry. The problem Chen has is that at the same time he is trying to figure things out he is being pressured to make hardware profitable or stop making hardware. The bar for android devices is 3 million, so if he can hit that mark then I can see him being able to focus on upgrade paths on the android form factors that are money makers.

I don't see Chen taking a gamble on a passport form factor android device, even if he change the aspect ratio. I think blackberry took the best of the passport and combine it with the classic blackberry form factor for the Rome with android friendly aspect screen ratio for apps. Carrier support and buy in, is still an issue as Blackberry needs carrier buy in to be successful for right now.

Chen has been kicking the can down the road quarter after quarter, but it is getting to the point that he needs shows results as it relates to hardware soon or just exit the hardware business all together.

Posted via CB10

[Andrew Sheil]

In order for Chen to figure out what device form factors to support long turn he needs sales data. With the release of the 2 new devices, this will given Chen the data he needs on three form factors: slider, full touchscreen, and classic style blackberry. The problem Chen has is that at the same time he is trying to figure things out he is being pressured to make hardware profitable or stop making hardware. The bar for android devices is 3 million, so if he can hit that mark then I can see him being able to focus on upgrade paths on the android form factors that are money makers.

I don't see Chen taking a gamble on a passport form factor android device, even if he change the aspect ratio. I think blackberry took the best of the passport and combine it with the classic blackberry form factor for the Rome with android friendly aspect screen ratio for apps. Carrier support and buy in, is still an issue as Blackberry needs carrier buy in to be successful for right now.

Chen has been kicking the can down the road quarter after quarter, but it is getting to the point that he needs shows results as it relates to hardware soon or just exit the hardware business all together.

Posted via CB10

So blackberry has designed and manufactured all these different devices as method of gathering some market research?? In order to make some 'killer device' that will sell like hot cakes? I find this hard to believe.

At present, all of the previous 8 devices have been sold to customers for one of three reasons.

They are willing to take a risk on a new device. (early adopter)

They have some loyalty to the blackberry brand. (diehards)

They have a very high need for something that only blackberry can provide. (pkb aficionados)

(or a mixture of all three).

Unless blackberry commits to a product, this demographic will only get lower and blackberry wont find new customers.

Who has set the bar at 3million? Those three 'groups' above are clearly less than three million combined. That is all that blackberry can sell to at the moment. Expecting more is foolish.

I think carriers would appreciate an updated device rather than a new product they have to learn about from scatch. Salepersons will not have to be trained as much. Infact they would actually deepen their knowledge on the device, which would benefit blackberry further.

Posted via CB10

[Bbnivende]

So blackberry has designed and manufactured all these different devices as method of gathering some market research?? In order to make some 'killer device' that will sell like hot cakes? I find this hard to believe.

At present, all of the previous 8 devices have been sold to customers for one of three reasons.

They are willing to take a risk on a new device. (early adopter)

They have some loyalty to the blackberry brand. (diehards)

They have a very high need for something that only blackberry can provide. (pkb aficionados)

(or a mixture of all three).

Unless blackberry commits to a product, this demographic will only get lower and blackberry wont find new customers.

Who has set the bar at 3million? Those three 'groups' above are clearly less than three million combined. That is all that blackberry can sell to at the moment. Expecting more is foolish.

I think carriers would appreciate an updated device rather than a new product they have to learn about from scatch. Salepersons will not have to be trained as much. Infact they would actually deepen their knowledge on the device, which would benefit blackberry further.

Posted via CB10

What is it exactly that you would have BlackBerry build ? Can not have a square screen.