1. laollis's Avatar
    08-04-10 11:33 AM
  2. Blacklac's Avatar
    RIM should call their bluff and pull out until they see how dumb they are being. Money talks though, we will see. Bad times, IMO.
    08-04-10 11:42 AM
  3. bigpolla04's Avatar
    Of course it will affect everything . What about our privacy rights , are they just gone out the door . We all right to privacy no matter what the government say .

    Are they going to give back all the money we spent and buy us new phones for all the trouble .

    We have the right to privacy ...

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-04-10 11:57 AM
  4. Reed McLay's Avatar
    AFP: BlackBerry maker to resist pressure from Gulf govts

    BlackBerry maker to resist pressure from Gulf govts

    Mike Lazaridis, founder and co-chief executive of Canadian-based Research in Motion, told The New York Times that allowing governments to monitor messages on the BlackBerry networks would imperil the firm's relationships with customers, including major corporations and law enforcement agencies.

    "We're not going to compromise that," Lazaridis said. "That's what's made BlackBerry the number one solution worldwide."

    Lazaridis said the encryption causing alarm among some governments was used for many legal purposes including e-commerce transactions, teleconferencing and electronic money transfers.

    "If you were to ban strong encryption, you would shut down corporations, business, commerce, banking and the Internet," he said. "Effectively, you'd shut it all down. That's not likely going to happen."

    ...
    Lazaridis told the Times his company had not granted special concessions to the governments of countries like India and China, despite reports to the contrary.

    "That's absolutely ridiculous and patently false," he said.

    ...
    Streight from the top.
    08-04-10 12:13 PM
  5. jlb21's Avatar
    Let's not forget at least from the perspective of BES users, assuming the BB is a work device, there should be NO expectation of privacy as you probably signed an agreement that all work devices are for work purposes only and that you agree to let the company monitor that usage in all its forms.....

    Or something to that effect.
    08-04-10 12:46 PM
  6. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Let's not forget at least from the perspective of BES users, assuming the BB is a work device, there should be NO expectation of privacy as you probably signed an agreement that all work devices are for work purposes only and that you agree to let the company monitor that usage in all its forms.....

    Or something to that effect.

    BUT the company does expect privacy from the Government


    I really don't see why everyone is so quick to talk about this as bad security for RIM

    at the VERY worst your data will become as open as all the other platforms?? so why would any non BB user even care?

    if our governments want to spy on us, they'll find a way.
    08-04-10 01:39 PM
  7. Exiled Bulldawg's Avatar
    BUT the company does expect privacy from the Government


    I really don't see why everyone is so quick to talk about this as bad security for RIM

    at the VERY worst your data will become as open as all the other platforms?? so why would any non BB user even care?

    if our governments want to spy on us, they'll find a way.
    I have mentioned this in several threads, and Reed posted this link: U.S. authorities able to tap BlackBerry messaging | Reuters

    RIM has been cooperating for years with law enforcement in the US or it couldn't operate here. The law is called Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) It's serious stuff. And it requires all carriers to allow for access to data with a court order. No carrier may operate without complying. If anyone provides e-mail service for hire, they must have a means of complying, too.
    08-04-10 03:14 PM
  8. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I have mentioned this in several threads, and Reed posted this link: U.S. authorities able to tap BlackBerry messaging | Reuters

    RIM has been cooperating for years with law enforcement in the US or it couldn't operate here. The law is called Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) It's serious stuff. And it requires all carriers to allow for access to data with a court order. No carrier may operate without complying. If anyone provides e-mail service for hire, they must have a means of complying, too.
    RIM in on North American soil, that is the major difference, and it is what the UAE wants, they want RIM on UAE soil,

    I don't have some belief that all my info is safe, what the "problem" with RIM controlled data is that you need to contact RIM to get it, but the other devices the governments can contact the teleco's and in some cases just pick it out of the air.

    I am not sure if cloning can be done to a PIN based communication on the RIM phone as can be done with a SIM card, but that is a talk that shouldn't happen in open forum anyway.
    08-04-10 04:51 PM
  9. Roo Zilla's Avatar

    I don't have some belief that all my info is safe, what the "problem" with RIM controlled data is that you need to contact RIM to get it, but the other devices the governments can contact the teleco's and in some cases just pick it out of the air.
    This is exactly what the law requires. Phone companies and ISPs must have a mechanism by which the government can monitor communications. Originally it only covered voice, but was later amended to include Internet traffic.
    08-04-10 06:27 PM
  10. Radius's Avatar
    I can't stand how upset everyone gets when their precious "privacy" is threatened.

    Two ways to look at it. First, there is so much information that they only look at you when needed, like if you're being dumb and selling military weapons to 3rd world countries because let's face it, no one cares what they do anyways.

    But with that even if someone like me looks at your info you're just a number. I see your sexy-time conversations with someone and do I know you? Does it matter? No, you are faceless and lost in the system.

    Second, Anything you put out there is there forever these days so get over it. It's all recorded in huge data centers and you are one conversation in one hundred trillion.

    Bottom line, no one cares unless you give them a reason to care.
    08-04-10 07:36 PM
  11. Exiled Bulldawg's Avatar
    RIM in on North American soil, that is the major difference, and it is what the UAE wants, they want RIM on UAE soil,

    I don't have some belief that all my info is safe, what the "problem" with RIM controlled data is that you need to contact RIM to get it, but the other devices the governments can contact the teleco's and in some cases just pick it out of the air.

    I am not sure if cloning can be done to a PIN based communication on the RIM phone as can be done with a SIM card, but that is a talk that shouldn't happen in open forum anyway.
    While Canada is surely on North American soil, US wire tapping laws don't apply to Canadian customers. I think the UAE wants the same access US law enforcement has to the end data, probably in real time. However, I think RIM has a problem in that their servers cover a region - it could be this could give the UAE access to non UAE accounts. Which would be a huge problem for RIM.

    Very true on the last part of that, as I have said previously, most government's could actually break into the encryption. They get access to much more information to work with than a private attacker could ever hope to have.

    Dunno, but given the right resources, anything is possible.
    08-04-10 08:20 PM
  12. tamhanna's Avatar
    Hi,
    to be honest: if the US has the right, I can understand the UAE wanting the same.

    Altough: as cosy as the UAE emirs are with the US Government, I don't really see the point
    08-04-10 08:24 PM
  13. causbrite's Avatar
    ....all governments are going to do something similar. They all want to see/hear what their citizens are saying/thinking. RIM are going to take a massive hit on this, until all servers, wherever they are based are opened up to government scrutinies.

    You can see how this is going to go. It always starts with one country that can't really justify what they want, then another does it, and another. BANDWAGON!!!!
    08-06-10 10:27 PM
  14. Jake Storm's Avatar
    BUT the company does expect privacy from the Government...
    Unless the company you work for is the government
    08-06-10 10:46 PM
  15. grahamf's Avatar
    RIM really should maintain their Swiss Bank security system:
    Only the user can access his or her information. Niether the government nor RIM can access it, because that would require the use of a back door that anybody can exploit once they find it.
    08-06-10 11:10 PM
  16. hotgeekness's Avatar
    I do agree that RIM must play this safe and hold on to what they can do best: security. If security is compromised, RIM will lose its advantage and eventually the competition will take over in large numbers until BlackBerry smartphones become a niche product. However, RIM must also see the importance of this issue and not ignore it as it can hurt their business. One must remember that the Middle East, especially the UAE, act as a gateway for business transactions to the west and the east. If the system is manipulated and businessmen can not carry out their business the usual way, this could hurt business in general on a global scale. What I wish RIM would do is to provide Middle Eastern governments a solution that both lets the citizens continue use BlackBerry smartphones while complying to the needs of the governments themselves. For example how about Service Book records that enable unencrypted communication? Certain features such as BBM could be disabled in order to maintain the security of users with encryption enabled. However access to the Internet and e-mail via a standard GPRS data plan would be extremely favorable. It would essentially be a win-win solution as RIM won't need to provide a backdoor of some sort. To make users aware the connection is not encrypted how about introducing new vocabulary such as BlackBerry Unencrypted Service (BUS) in addition to BIS/BES? Or BlackBerry Open Service (BOS) to sound less harsh and line out the differences of each on their Web page. It could work really well and make BlackBerry accessible to people where BlackBerry service is not available in the first place, both broadening RIM's customer base and profits. Also, most of you don't seem to understand how serious this issue is. Having relatives in said countries I can say that it is really only for the good that the government seeks privileges to monitor your data. Really the added security by "losing" some of your privacy is *essential* in these countries. I visited Iraq last month to see my family. Trust me, I know what I am talking about. Anyway, what do you think of my BUS/BOS idea?
    08-07-10 04:00 AM
  17. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    BUT the company does expect privacy from the Government


    I really don't see why everyone is so quick to talk about this as bad security for RIM

    at the VERY worst your data will become as open as all the other platforms?? so why would any non BB user even care?

    if our governments want to spy on us, they'll find a way.

    I understand your point but security is one of the things that blackberry still has an advantage. As blackberries start losing the things that gave them the advantage and other solutions get better in Enterprise then there will be no need for as many people to buy blackberries because they get the same security with other OS plus they do other stuff a lot better. You can't give up one of the premiere advantages of your platform. The arguments for reasons why people keep blackberries will shrink as other OS get better where RIM is strong and blackberry loses their advantage.
    08-07-10 10:15 AM
  18. Xavier DMar's Avatar
    This is way to sensitive a subject RIM execs have to be popping. Pills. It would be hard for RIM to conform to the request of the UAE without opening the flood gates to other nations and major international company trying to strong arm RIM to adapt to individual needs. Then where would they be?
    08-07-10 11:02 AM
  19. Jake Storm's Avatar
    ...opening the flood gates to other nations and major international company trying to strong arm RIM to adapt to individual needs. Then where would they be?
    They would be adapting to customers needs.
    Seems like good business sense to me.
    08-07-10 03:21 PM
  20. avt123's Avatar
    They would be adapting to customers needs.
    Seems like good business sense to me.
    Consumer needs? Don't you mean government needs? The consumers aren't asking for RIM to release the data, governments are.
    08-07-10 03:33 PM
  21. Jake Storm's Avatar
    Consumer needs? Don't you mean government needs? The consumers aren't asking for RIM to release the data, governments are.
    I was responding to Xavier's reference to "a major international company".
    08-07-10 03:47 PM
  22. avt123's Avatar
    I was responding to Xavier's reference to "a major international company".
    Ah ok. I though his individual needs line was talking about individual countries.
    08-07-10 03:49 PM
  23. Jake Storm's Avatar
    Ah ok. I though his individual needs line was talking about individual countries.
    Yeah, don't get me wrong. I don't like the fact that RIM had to cater to a Government that's limiting the privacy of it's citizens, and I don't think we (North Americans) necessarily need to turn a blind eye to it... but that freedom will be taken away from Saudi citizens regardless. Either RIM doesn't cooperate and the government makes all BB use illegal, or RIM comes up with a solution like a server within the country that can be monitored by the local government. I don't think it's RIM's place to play politics, they are business smart to try and come up with a solution to allow them to stay in that large market.

    Canadians by nature are pretty accommodating. But, don't think for a minute that they don't care about personal rights and freedoms. Unfortunately I don't think there is anything RIM can do to protect the privacy of users in Saudi Arabia. Either they play by the rules of that country, or they're not welcome there. Playing hardball with the Saudi government won't help
    08-07-10 04:07 PM
  24. Radius's Avatar
    Canadians by nature are pretty accommodating. But, don't think for a minute that they don't care about personal rights and freedoms.(
    Let me put this into perspective as I had a friend that worked for a Canadian spy agency. Not CSIS, but another one.

    Your communications are being monitored. By law the Canadian government cannot listen in to your conversations or anything. However, they can listen in on overseas communications to foreign entities. Therefore, if you place a call to someone in another country they have every right under the law to see and hear everything you do.

    RIM or no, the government gets that right.

    SO what makes any other country less privileged? If they want to monitor their citizens in accordance to their own laws then so be it. RIM must cater to them. Period.
    08-07-10 04:30 PM
  25. Jake Storm's Avatar
    Let me put this into perspective as I had a friend that worked for a Canadian spy agency...
    That's hot. Kinda like Angelina Jolie? Mmmm, Angelina Jolie
    What were we talking about?
    08-07-10 04:51 PM
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