1. Voltel's Avatar
    Hi guys,

    First I'd like to introduce myself.
    My name is Mihail Dimitrov, I am a 22 year old Bulgarian, currently living in the UK. I am blackberry user since the BOLD 9700, and over the years I might have tried all of the mobile platforms (Symbian, MeeGO, BBOS, Android, BlackBerry10, iOS, Windows Phone or Mobile if you wish), and I am currently rocking the BlackBerry Passport.

    No let's get to the point of this thread..

    Ever since blackberry showed the Slider Phone, there was so much hype about it. I was so into it... It was remake of my beloved Torch, rocking BlackBerry10, or at least that's what it should've been.

    BB decided to go for high-end android device to somehow give what people wanted - blackberry with apps.
    Well, that might be what Andro-users want, a well build premium phone running their beloved OS, but here is my point of view, as a blackberry user, a guy who switched from flagship android device to Blackberry z10, not because of the name, or the hardwere, or because I wanted to stand out from the crowd so badly, BUT for the amazing user experience Blackberry offered.

    First of all, the app-gap problem is here because there is no real interest in BB10, and this is caused by the lack of devices that users want. Before moving forward, I will just explain how the consumers market work:

    Pure example is my room mate from my university dorm. He purchased a laptop that was 40% more expensive then my own, while it performed worse, just because it had 2gb of VRAM over my 1GB, without considering that having 1GB more doesn't mean it will perform better.

    My point is, specs sell units, the higher the number, the higher the interest in the product.

    With that being said, you cannot expect 90% of the market to pick dual core 1,5ghz with the worst possible GPU on the market (z10) over the cheaper Sone Xperia SP with 1,7GHz and the 320GPU (same as Z30) - for example.

    Let me give you another example without including blackberry, and I will use the Xperia phone again.

    Galaxy S3 vs Xperia SP - The obvious choice for almost anyone is the S3, and the reason is that S3 got quad core CPU, while SP have dual, however that dual-core CPU outperforms the Quad- core, so does the GPU too.

    ================================================== ============

    I believe everyone got my point till now, so let's talk about what blackberry did.

    After z30, instead of learning and pushing superior device, they launched two all-touch devices:
    Z3, and Leap- new design with downgraded specs (z10).

    Does it sound right? - Hell NO.
    Keep in mind all- touch device is what the majority of customers wanted.
    Let's take a look at the QWERTY Devices:
    Starting with Q5 => Q10 => Classic no spec improvements, and going to passport - an amazing device, I know every one who gave it a chance don't regret it, however it remains the only BB10 device with appropriate specs, BUT it comes in a form that almost nobody wants (their mistake, but you (yes BB, you) still have a business to run).

    So, with simple words - No attractive products ==> No customers ==>> No customers ==> No developers.

    ================================================== ============

    Let's talk about how important specs are in real life.

    Let's say you are waiting for the bus, and you want to kill some time by playing a game on your phone. You open up Asphalt on your brand new Leap (2015), and the guy next to you does the same on his 3 year- old nexus4, and while your game lags, his runs smooth, how would that make you feel? --- Yeah I thought so.

    Now put yourself in the shoes of the guy behind you, who sees Blackberry and LG, The Berry lags, and the LG doesn't. That very same guy want to buy a new phone. Even tho he don't play games on his phone, he also don't want his phone to be laggy in 2015, which one do you think he will buy? --- Yup, you got that right.

    A phone with the specs of Z30, can run the top apps decent even today 2 years after launch.
    It's a shame that 2015 devise runs 3 years old hardwere, while thech moves so fast nowadays.

    And we are finally here - ANDROID

    Finally Blackberry decided to release attractive product, combining best of both worlds - All touch device + qwerty keyboard in a slim sexy body with gorgeous screen. With the device that can possibly put BB10 on the map, suddenly they decided to go for Android OS.

    Good job BB, ditching something great, not only as user experience once you spent no more then few days with it, but as security witch is your actual motto for like.. forever.

    Kinda sounds like MeeGo, doesn't it?

    MeeGo was OS used on Nokia n9, it got killed off before it had the chance to live, and it's very similar to BB10 (gestures based), I really hope MeeGo fate wont come to BB10 as well. If you want to check out MeeGo - go on youtube and /watch?v=JJ-IlW8Vcrw

    My opinion on Blackberry device running android - It's just wrong.

    Market belongs to 2 names right now Apple (iOS) a company that will remain there, because its something unique, and Samsung, because they are the big name in android. Blackberry wont go far on droid path, since there are too many names on that path. In order to progress, blackberry needs QNX and BB10, but they need to learn from their mistakes, not to do them over and over and over again.

    It'll be a shame Blackberry goes from a symbol, to just another name in the Drolandia's list.

    This is of course my opinion, and I am looking forward to see yours,
    Let the discussion begin!
    acovey and BerrySoul like this.
    12-18-15 12:37 PM
  2. early2bed's Avatar
    The best selling smartphone, the iPhone, advertises practically no specs.

    How wise is it to get into a spec arms race with companies that are 100 times bigger?
    co4nd likes this.
    12-18-15 12:46 PM
  3. kvndoom's Avatar
    Ecosystems sell more phones than specs. More low-spec Droid phones are sold than high end ones. the majority are simply buying "an Android phone."

    BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless
    kbz1960 and Troy Tiscareno like this.
    12-18-15 01:58 PM
  4. Voltel's Avatar
    Ecosystems sell more phones than specs. More low-spec Droid phones are sold than high end ones. the majority are simply buying "an Android phone."

    BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless
    The reason anyone will buy low-end android phone is the price, and the low price comes with awful user experience and cheap build quality, here comes my point about the low-end bb10 all touch devices with premium build, at mid-high price range, and that is not acceptable in the market today.

    The best selling smartphone, the iPhone, advertises practically no specs.

    How wise is it to get into a spec arms race with companies that are 100 times bigger?
    I am talking about specs that can run things smoothly, like the nexus4 cpu/gpu, and thats not even near top notch, and while they don't gave the BB10 the chance to run high-end device, they didn't think about twice to put it in android.

    As far as the iPhone goes - Everybody knows that iPhone can run everything, and the majority of users, cant even tell you what chip apple uses, cause the way they present the new iPhones leaves that out, and highlights the user experience, which should be exactly what bb needs to do.
    12-18-15 05:13 PM
  5. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    BB isn't and wasn't in any position to do what you are suggesting.

    First of all, their BB10 phones had to run Android apps, so immediate comparisons to Android are automatically going to be made - that's unavoidable.

    Second, like every other company that isn't Apple (who makes billions in profits each quarter), BB had to buy their SoCs from leading industry manufacturers, because they don't have anywhere near the money or the sales to be able to design their own chips as Apple does - which is why Apple can be exempt from the spec race.

    Third, as I mentioned in the second point, BB's sales are low, so their buying power is also low, and they can't buy enough to get the volume discounts that other manufacturers can get. Therefore, they can't compete on price, even on hardware alone, and they could never compete against Android in price on software either, because Android is nearly free, while building, maintaining, and supporting your own OS and ecosystem is incredibly expensive.

    Fourth, as Chen himself has admitted, BB was forced to keep using the same chipsets again and again because the cost of paying Qualcomm to provide QNX-based drivers was too expensive given BB's low sales volumes - and again, Android manufacturers get their drivers for free, because there are so many Android manufacturers buying them that it makes business sense to provide those drivers for free.

    Fifth, without an ecosystem, a high-end all-touch would still have only sold to BB enthusiasts and a handful of normal consumers - it would never have the growth potential that BB would have needed to build a viable ecosystem, or even make a profit on handsets (something that no BB10 phone has ever done - turn a profit).

    Of course you're a BB10 fan, and of course you would have loved to have a truly high-end all-touch. I get that, I really do. There are quite a few of you here on CB, and there have been endless threads about it. But there simply wasn't a business case for making such a phone, and that's why one was never made. It's really that simple.
    co4nd and hoytbowhunter like this.
    12-18-15 10:53 PM
  6. Voltel's Avatar
    Okay, point taken for the drivers.
    However, when you already paid for the z30 chip, which is still powerful, and you already have the drivers, why would you put older and under performing chip on your next 3 devices?

    And you're wrong about one thing - I don't want full touch high-end blackberry for myself, I am more then happy with my passport. The reason why I talk about it, is because that's what everyone else want.
    If you want to expand in customers market, you have to give people what they want - all touch, and they PKB devices are more likely to be purchased by blackberry enthusiasts.

    Create a BB Classic version running android with the same specs and form factor as the classic itself and see how successful it will be in android world. Better yet, compare it to BB10 version of android and ask yourself which one will be sold better.
    12-20-15 02:29 AM
  7. Old_Mil's Avatar
    Whatever chance BB10 had was pretty much over when Chen ran off the developers and destroyed Blackberry world. Whatever chance the handset division had was destroyed when he chose the specs he chose for the Priv (including the physical keyboard/slider form factor).
    12-21-15 07:28 AM
  8. Utopium 443's Avatar
    You know, once you reach a certain age, specs don't count anymore. My 21 year old motorcycle e.g. runs close to 300km/h, though I'm seriously considering selling it and buying a scooter which is more fuel efficient, easier to drive, cheaper in insurance and running costs.

    You see, all that matters in the end is that it works, and gets the job done without much sweat. What's under the hood, frankly, I don't care anymore. I can use my z30 for two days, it doesn't cost a lot to buy one.
    And it does what I want it to do.

    Sure I use a cheap small Droid (I am a clumsy trail runner) for my exercises (linked to a dummy account), and an iPad mini2 for the apps and some games. But my phone is my workhorse.

    Posted via CB10
    12-21-15 02:56 PM
  9. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    You know, once you reach a certain age, specs don't count anymore. My 21 year old motorcycle e.g. runs close to 300km/h, though I'm seriously considering selling it and buying a scooter which is more fuel efficient, easier to drive, cheaper in insurance and running costs.

    You see, all that matters in the end is that it works, and gets the job done without much sweat. What's under the hood, frankly, I don't care anymore. I can use my z30 for two days, it doesn't cost a lot to buy one.
    And it does what I want it to do.

    Sure I use a cheap small Droid (I am a clumsy trail runner) for my exercises (linked to a dummy account), and an iPad mini2 for the apps and some games. But my phone is my workhorse.

    Posted via CB10
    I mostly agree except I want a Tesla. I don't need it but I want it.
    12-21-15 07:38 PM
  10. acovey's Avatar
    The words Blackberry and Android do NOT mix. I buy Blackberry for their hardware and their software, NOT stinking Android.
    12-21-15 09:00 PM
  11. eshropshire's Avatar
    Whatever chance BB10 had was pretty much over when Chen ran off the developers and destroyed Blackberry world. Whatever chance the handset division had was destroyed when he chose the specs he chose for the Priv (including the physical keyboard/slider form factor).
    BB10 was pretty much dead outside of the BB diehards by the time Chen took over. Chen was handed a company that the old leadership tried and very publicly failed to firesale. Also, by the time Chen took over BB was burning through their cash so fast many analysts predicted if something was not done fast they would be out of cash in 2015. This killed much of what credibility BlackBerry had left in the eyes of many CEOs.

    BB10 1.x came out in early 2013 with a lot of advertising and lots of reseller support. Unfortunately the OS was released to late to impact the market, but way too early (not ready for prime time ). Was really only solid with the release of BB10 2.1. I think the fact that Chen stayed with BB10 as long as he did was amazing.
    12-21-15 11:42 PM
  12. BerrySoul's Avatar
    Hi guys,

    First I'd like to introduce myself.
    My name is Mihail Dimitrov, I am a 22 year old Bulgarian, currently living in the UK. I am blackberry user since the BOLD 9700, and over the years I might have tried all of the mobile platforms (Symbian, MeeGO, BBOS, Android, BlackBerry10, iOS, Windows Phone or Mobile if you wish), and I am currently rocking the BlackBerry Passport.

    No let's get to the point of this thread..

    Ever since blackberry showed the Slider Phone, there was so much hype about it. I was so into it... It was remake of my beloved Torch, rocking BlackBerry10, or at least that's what it should've been.

    BB decided to go for high-end android device to somehow give what people wanted - blackberry with apps.
    Well, that might be what Andro-users want, a well build premium phone running their beloved OS, but here is my point of view, as a blackberry user, a guy who switched from flagship android device to Blackberry z10, not because of the name, or the hardwere, or because I wanted to stand out from the crowd so badly, BUT for the amazing user experience Blackberry offered.

    First of all, the app-gap problem is here because there is no real interest in BB10, and this is caused by the lack of devices that users want. Before moving forward, I will just explain how the consumers market work:

    Pure example is my room mate from my university dorm. He purchased a laptop that was 40% more expensive then my own, while it performed worse, just because it had 2gb of VRAM over my 1GB, without considering that having 1GB more doesn't mean it will perform better.

    My point is, specs sell units, the higher the number, the higher the interest in the product.

    With that being said, you cannot expect 90% of the market to pick dual core 1,5ghz with the worst possible GPU on the market (z10) over the cheaper Sone Xperia SP with 1,7GHz and the 320GPU (same as Z30) - for example.

    Let me give you another example without including blackberry, and I will use the Xperia phone again.

    Galaxy S3 vs Xperia SP - The obvious choice for almost anyone is the S3, and the reason is that S3 got quad core CPU, while SP have dual, however that dual-core CPU outperforms the Quad- core, so does the GPU too.

    ================================================== ============

    I believe everyone got my point till now, so let's talk about what blackberry did.

    After z30, instead of learning and pushing superior device, they launched two all-touch devices:
    Z3, and Leap- new design with downgraded specs (z10).

    Does it sound right? - Hell NO.
    Keep in mind all- touch device is what the majority of customers wanted.
    Let's take a look at the QWERTY Devices:
    Starting with Q5 => Q10 => Classic no spec improvements, and going to passport - an amazing device, I know every one who gave it a chance don't regret it, however it remains the only BB10 device with appropriate specs, BUT it comes in a form that almost nobody wants (their mistake, but you (yes BB, you) still have a business to run).

    So, with simple words - No attractive products ==> No customers ==>> No customers ==> No developers.

    ================================================== ============

    Let's talk about how important specs are in real life.

    Let's say you are waiting for the bus, and you want to kill some time by playing a game on your phone. You open up Asphalt on your brand new Leap (2015), and the guy next to you does the same on his 3 year- old nexus4, and while your game lags, his runs smooth, how would that make you feel? --- Yeah I thought so.

    Now put yourself in the shoes of the guy behind you, who sees Blackberry and LG, The Berry lags, and the LG doesn't. That very same guy want to buy a new phone. Even tho he don't play games on his phone, he also don't want his phone to be laggy in 2015, which one do you think he will buy? --- Yup, you got that right.

    A phone with the specs of Z30, can run the top apps decent even today 2 years after launch.
    It's a shame that 2015 devise runs 3 years old hardwere, while thech moves so fast nowadays.

    And we are finally here - ANDROID

    Finally Blackberry decided to release attractive product, combining best of both worlds - All touch device + qwerty keyboard in a slim sexy body with gorgeous screen. With the device that can possibly put BB10 on the map, suddenly they decided to go for Android OS.

    Good job BB, ditching something great, not only as user experience once you spent no more then few days with it, but as security witch is your actual motto for like.. forever.

    Kinda sounds like MeeGo, doesn't it?

    MeeGo was OS used on Nokia n9, it got killed off before it had the chance to live, and it's very similar to BB10 (gestures based), I really hope MeeGo fate wont come to BB10 as well. If you want to check out MeeGo - go on youtube and /watch?v=JJ-IlW8Vcrw

    My opinion on Blackberry device running android - It's just wrong.

    Market belongs to 2 names right now Apple (iOS) a company that will remain there, because its something unique, and Samsung, because they are the big name in android. Blackberry wont go far on droid path, since there are too many names on that path. In order to progress, blackberry needs QNX and BB10, but they need to learn from their mistakes, not to do them over and over and over again.

    It'll be a shame Blackberry goes from a symbol, to just another name in the Drolandia's list.

    This is of course my opinion, and I am looking forward to see yours,
    Let the discussion begin!
    BB10 Os for me and nothing else. My Passport SE will be my last BlackBerry if the ***** Chen decides to kill BB10 Os.

      
    12-22-15 11:12 AM

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