04-05-14 08:21 AM
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  1. madman0141's Avatar
    This is a bad move losing your cool with tmobile what's next sprint, Verizon, pretty soon you won't be able to get a BlackBerry product from anyone with that kind of logic.
    04-04-14 05:20 AM
  2. bbzak's Avatar
    Atleast in countries like India, where Blackberry is growing steadily, We dont depend on carriers and direct purchase would be a great boon.
    Why should I go to a retailer when I have the full support from Blackberry directly?
    Dell has sold their laptops directly and backed it up with great customer support.
    It was always tested and tried success in this side of the world atleast.
    Akshay Borkar likes this.
    04-04-14 07:20 AM
  3. RyanGermann's Avatar
    I would never pay north of $300 for a phone unless my cell phone bill is drastically lowered (which I doubt would happen).
    That is true: even the carriers that offer a discount for "bring your own phone" don't offer anything near what the "subsidy" might be... they offer 10% off, which isn't all that much.

    There are also situations like mine, where getting a phone on subsidy drastically increases my monthly rate to the point of negating the benefit of the phone subsidy: If I sign up for a plan at a comparable rate to mine, my service will be reduced (substantially less data, but extra daytime minutes I don't use) and the subsidy will only be $200... meaning the cost of an HTC One or S5 or iPhone would still be $500 out of pocket. If I want to keep my current level of service, my rate would double to $110 per month, and I could get a $500 subsidy... you don't need a scientific calculator to see that's not good value.... but I can't get a subsidy at all if I sign a contract but want to keep my plan: I have to switch plans to get a subsidy, period.

    You are better off buying your phone on a low interest credit card and paying it off a bit at a time month after month, incurring interest (which can be at 6% annually for a person with a good credit rating, and above-poverty-line income) rather than signing up for a new contract that requires a lot of bells and whistles (i.e. "platinum service" rate). If you are happy with a $50 per month service, and to get $500 off your device you have to sign up for an $80 per month service, that's $360 per year, $720 on a two-year contract, so that $500 savings isn't looking so good any more... and not to mention that there may be an additional $200 or more to be paid even after the subsidy.

    The Subsidy is off the MSRP of "ripoff" and the whole reason why carriers don't sell devices at fair market prices (like those you might see for new devices on ebay etc) is because they have to make that subsidy look attractive to entice you to sign a contract.

    Prices of devices are artificially high, and people still pay them, or they perceive that "this device is $700 and I got $500 off!" when it's more like "this device should cost $500, my monthly bill is inflated by 50% or more to compensate for the perception that I got $500 off when the cost that the carrier bears for the subsidy is really only $100."

    We're all being ripped off. On principle I won't play that game. And I get unlocked devices and the carrier better not jerk me around or I can switch carriers at will.

    EDIT: A $800 device at 6% per year for 2 years paid monthly would be equal monthly payments of $36, = $864, no contract.

    Compare with a plan that has a $500 subsidy, leaving you with a cash outlay of $300 but the plan costs $30 more per month: the cost is $1020, but you're locked in to a 2 year contract.
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 04-04-14 at 08:29 AM.
    04-04-14 08:14 AM
  4. Omnitech's Avatar
    Atleast in countries like India, where Blackberry is growing steadily, We dont depend on carriers and direct purchase would be a great boon.
    Why should I go to a retailer when I have the full support from Blackberry directly?
    Dell has sold their laptops directly and backed it up with great customer support.
    It was always tested and tried success in this side of the world atleast.

    Historically in the North American market, Blackberry has not done direct to customer support - customers have to go to their carrier first, and only if the carrier can not solve the issue will they get BlackBerry involved, but still only peripherally.

    Perhaps BlackBerry does do that in India - I have wondered about that, given the smaller role the carriers play there with regards to hardware.

    If they changed the traditional model in North America, undoubtedly they would have to hire a large number of people to do the support, raising their payroll costs substantially. The question is if those costs (as well as other costs of doing business directly - fulfillment costs, logistics, etc.) are still below what they lose by selling via carriers or traditional resellers.
    04-04-14 08:18 AM
  5. Brutal Efficiency's Avatar
    Maybe but even if they did, it won't really help much IMO. Selling devices at $600, $500, $300 a pop just isn't really in the consumer mindset. People are used to subsidies and while it's great for those who get it and want to do that, it's not a wide market who does that. Most people just want their devices at $199 and the thought of paying full price for a device is outrageous to them.
    Maybe in the Americas.

    Quality Poultry - Channel PIN: C004B64D1
    04-04-14 08:20 AM
  6. Bbnivende's Avatar
    so same like what apple is doing...blackberry store
    Yes - a kiosk in major malls would do. Both Samsung & Microsoft have either a store or a kiosk my Canadian city.

    My big concern is the disparity between what the carriers will sell the BlackBerry for and the online price. They need to get the prices at the carrier down to the online price.
    04-04-14 08:28 AM
  7. Playbook007's Avatar
    When was the last time you checked that? The first couple of searches I did found nothing, and in fact when I go to their smartphone section they don't even show BlackBerry as an available brand.

    After noodling around a while I found some Z10s and Q10s, but no Z30. Nor any indication they have them in stores either.
    2 days ago right at the store. They have BlackBerry devices at different locations within the cell phone area. Little confusing.

    Posted via CB10
    04-04-14 08:51 AM
  8. Playbook007's Avatar
    Atleast in countries like India, where Blackberry is growing steadily, We dont depend on carriers and direct purchase would be a great boon.
    Why should I go to a retailer when I have the full support from Blackberry directly?
    Dell has sold their laptops directly and backed it up with great customer support.
    It was always tested and tried success in this side of the world atleast.
    You raise a great point. All our heavy work stations at work are Dell units. We gave up a long time ago dealing with retailers.

    Posted via CB10
    bbzak likes this.
    04-04-14 08:57 AM
  9. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    In Canada I notice that BlackBerry's in the stores seem to be dwindling. Like they are short on inventory. Now after John Chen tells T Mobile to take a hike, I think he is going to market BlackBerry devices online. Cut the carriers out and I cannot blame them. Then you will see a BlackBerry direct marketing campaign. Online retail is a huge market, and you won't have brain dead reps steering customers away from BlackBerry. I have no problem getting my z30's direct.

    Posted via CB10
    I read it as they are pulling back on expensive retail channels. There are other channels besides direct - large account resellers (CDWs), small business-to-business VARS, call centres for carriers etc.

    The stores are pricey to support because of the inventory, MDF commits, promotions etc.

    I read him as scaling back that part vs. "going completely direct". I don't think they have the infrastructure to do global eStore sales anyway.
    04-04-14 09:01 AM
  10. BlueStreak67's Avatar
    Or they could sell it for $199 + $10/month for 24 month or something like that...

    I think there's lots of "innovation" that can be done on pricing.

    Posted via CB10
    My guess is not many people would choose this if they had the option for $199 + $0/month for 24 months
    04-04-14 09:16 AM
  11. Omnitech's Avatar
    2 days ago right at the store. They have BlackBerry devices at different locations within the cell phone area. Little confusing.

    Ah, thanks.

    I just noticed that Amazon has the Verizon Z30 for $49 for new/renewed contract - that actually sounds like the most interesting option to me. I cannot imagine there is anything that BestBuy can offer me that I would find of value versus dealing with Amazon. I certainly don't need a counter-monkey to activate my phone for me or try to educate me about how a BlackBerry works.

    The reason why I personally don't mind the contract renewal when I buy phones is because I am very happy with Verizon and have no reason to switch from them for my primary line, so staying with them is not burdensome for me. However, see below.



    My guess is not many people would choose this if they had the option for $199 + $0/month for 24 months

    If the carrier rebated the amount of extra money their customers were paying for service every month to pad the revenue to where subsidizing that phone was feasible while still making boatloads of profit, I'm pretty sure a lot of people would go the unsubsidized route.

    You know how much money a mobile customer pays in India for a middle of the road monthly data plan? The equivalent of about $8.00 USD, something in that range.

    Perhaps now you know why phones are not subsidized in India.
    04-04-14 09:42 AM
  12. anon(5828343)'s Avatar
    It won't work in North America where the majority of the market still relies on carrier subsidies to purchase smartphones. That is, unless, BBRY manages to get carriers to work with them on subsidies on directly sold phones.

    I don't like to do it and bought my iPhone 5S and my Q10 unsubsidized and unlocked but my understanding is most consumers still rely on carrier subsidies.
    04-04-14 10:44 AM
  13. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    While the points you mention are certainly factors, you completely missed all the political reasons.
    All true... I didn't want to turn my post into a whole dissertation...
    04-04-14 01:45 PM
  14. Omnitech's Avatar
    All true... I didn't want to turn my post into a whole dissertation...
    Dude, neither you nor I are known for our brevity.
    04-04-14 06:31 PM
  15. gng11's Avatar
    On the selling side, it's time for Blackberry to do this: http://forums.crackberry.com/general...stores-659063/
    04-04-14 08:04 PM
  16. Omnitech's Avatar
    On the selling side, it's time for Blackberry to do this: http://forums.crackberry.com/general...stores-659063/

    Running a nationwide or global network of retail stores is NOT a trivial operation in any sense of the word.

    Tell me ONE other company that is SOLELY in the smartphone business that does this.

    Not Apple.

    Not Samsung.

    Not LG.

    Not Sony.

    Not Lenovo.

    Not HP.

    Not Dell.

    Not HTC.

    Not Microsoft.

    It's hard enough for companies who have deep experience and expertise in retail to keep a large network of stores operating and not losing money, much less a company like BlackBerry.

    Not going to happen any time soon, and for a lot of GOOD reasons.
    johnnyuk likes this.
    04-04-14 08:23 PM
  17. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Running a nationwide or global network of retail stores is NOT a trivial operation in any sense of the word.

    Tell me ONE other company that is SOLELY in the smartphone business that does this.

    Not Apple.

    Not Samsung.

    Not LG.

    Not Sony.

    Not Lenovo.

    Not HP.

    Not Dell.

    Not HTC.

    Not Microsoft.

    It's hard enough for companies who have deep experience and expertise in retail to keep a large network of stores operating and not losing money, much less a company like BlackBerry.

    Not going to happen any time soon, and for a lot of GOOD reasons.
    imagine a generic "carphone wearhouse" type place (just thinking... time to change the name from "carphone" isn't it? or Netflix should change their name to "Laserdiscs Online") owned and staffed by BlackBerry employees selling all devices but just HAPPEN to be staffed by people who DON'T ACTUALLY LAUGH OUT LOUD at people who want advice about BlackBerry devices. Just not driving people away from BlackBerry but still selling other devices and carrier plan commissions would be a profitable business.

    Posted via CB10
    04-04-14 08:34 PM
  18. johnnyuk's Avatar
    It's a legacy of the US carrier system.
    Many of the things you've attributed to the US historically having 2 incompatible mobile network technologies, GSM and CDMA, are also the case in the UK where GSM is the standard. So it's not all down to the rival technologies being used to lock people in to going to a carrier for a phone.

    Most people here have always bought and continue to buy their phone from their carrier. The subsidy is the carrot, for many good low to mid range phones there is nothing to pay up front. This gives the carrier the chance to sell "insurance" on top of the monthly plan costs to pay for and profit from providing support to the customer. If you don't buy the insurance and your phone breaks you are directed to read the warranty and contact the manufacturer or cough up some more money for a new phone.

    I personally prefer to buy my mobile phones online, have done for the last 13 years, and in the last 2 years I've bought them SIM unlocked from wherever I can get the best price and stuck a SIM in of my choosing from a carrier.

    But not many people want to spend that kind of money up front, even though it can work out cheaper in the long run. Many people also want the security of having insurance and knowing if something goes wrong they have a shop they can take it to where it will be sorted out.

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.2141 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.1
    04-04-14 09:26 PM
  19. Omnitech's Avatar
    imagine a generic "carphone wearhouse" type place [...] owned and staffed by BlackBerry employees selling all devices but just HAPPEN to be staffed by people who DON'T ACTUALLY LAUGH OUT LOUD at people who want advice about BlackBerry devices. Just not driving people away from BlackBerry but still selling other devices and carrier plan commissions would be a profitable business.

    It's a fine fantasy, to be sure.

    But when it comes to reality - there are SO many things arguing against that. These days, running a retail business that doesn't lose money for ANY retailer is a challenge, much less someone selling commoditized devices in markets where the incumbents have all the cards in the deck stacked in their favor.

    I cannot think of a single, smartphone-only or cellular-only nationwide independent reseller chain in the USA. Can you? I really do not think it is a viable business in this market. If it were, we would already have some.

    It's the same reason we don't have companies trying to compete with the postal service for delivering 20 cent letters to people on some rural route in the middle of nowhere, or companies trying to compete with your local electrical utility, etc.
    04-05-14 08:21 AM
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