08-06-11 10:10 AM
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  1. mmcpher's Avatar
    Well, I agree with one point of the article: " . . . and nobody seems to care.". Sure, the many aficionados on this site and acolytes of tech may care but the millions of enterprises that issue these phones to their employees don't. The millions, many like.me who prefered a BB over other OS's and like a vertical slider don't care either. And if we need another phone and OS 7 is all there is, so be it. QNX sounds promising and it's not going to disappear, so we who don't seem to care will eventually get there but as long as the available models work well we'll use them until they need replacing.
    Truer words have seldom been posted here. Even in small-to-mid sized firms, IT guys ignore the clamor for upgrades until it reaches a sustained howl. If there were IT Guys around in the 1440's, they would have said to give the Gutenberg press a couple of centuries to iron out the bugs and then, maybe, we'll take a look.
    08-04-11 12:22 AM
  2. lotuslanderz's Avatar
    The Boy Genius tweeted on Aug 2nd that he needs a BlackBerry Bold 9900, and the early "reviews" of the 9900, 9850, 9810 on his site (the one that CBers love to hate are very positive). This does not sound like BlackBerry7 is DOA.
    08-04-11 01:01 AM
  3. southlander's Avatar
    Isn't it really just 6.1 with a new dress on?
    Pretty much. Though version numbers are pretty arbitrary.
    08-04-11 01:26 AM
  4. Rootbrian's Avatar
    Doubt it's gonna be DOA.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-04-11 03:58 AM
  5. brucep1's Avatar
    This is from PC Magazine, so the guy is presumably a professional, yet he starts his article with,

    "RIM announced two new BlackBerry Torch models today, along with the first real release dates for its BlackBerry 7 phones, and nobody seems to care. That's because BlackBerry 7 isn't what the company needs. Everyone knows what the company needs: its next-generation OS, QNX, on phones."

    Who is "nobody" and who is "everyone"? Do they talk to each other? Trade notes? Does "Everyone" have some sort of prescient insight into what the coming QNX OS handsets will look and feel like (very futuristic)? We are talking about phones, right? How is it that some companies can release a series of nearly identical, slabbish models, each succeeding one with similar, small OS tweaks, and its just recieved as transcendently better and better? There are already as many rectangular touchscreen devices as there are brands of bar-soap in the super-market, yet the reviews leap after trivial distinctions as if they're some transformational breakthrough.

    I get that RIM is in a position, mostly of their own making, with a new OS and handset released now, and a planned release of new QNX phones in 2012. They are open to a charge that the new releases are just stopgaps. So its not as if the article is baseless, but the need to sound snappy and snarky over rides the imperitive to be professional. To resist the urge to re-write the old tropes over and over again (like the one that said, about 22,000 times that the latest release, although commendable, was not the Iphone killer). (By now companies have figured that if they can induce enough people to buy their new handset, the fact that it won't obliterate competition is something they can live with) My guess is that many people will like the increased speed and power of the new Blackberries, and I was mildly surprised by the way RIM has bundled these devices in a marketing sense -- there is a certain "something for everyone" appeal to seeing the slider, traditional keyboard and touchscreen side-by-side-by-side that way, each presumably with compatible software.
    The consumer market
    Phil DeLong and scorpiodsu like this.
    08-04-11 06:47 AM
  6. i7guy's Avatar
    Thank you RIM, you saved me from iphone.

    Actually I'm still liking my S2, but I could very easily be swayed to update my phone to a newer BB.
    08-04-11 07:44 AM
  7. pbfan's Avatar
    But he does care from his language - he really wants to see BB7 DOA.
    08-04-11 07:48 AM
  8. Ithasbegun's Avatar
    The Boy Genius tweeted on Aug 2nd that he needs a BlackBerry Bold 9900, and the early "reviews" of the 9900, 9850, 9810 on his site (the one that CBers love to hate are very positive). This does not sound like BlackBerry7 is DOA.
    I get it. So now BGR is considered credible in here?

    Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
    08-04-11 07:55 AM
  9. chiefbroski's Avatar
    Another garbage article written to generate page hits and to feed the same b/s they tried to sell us over the last year.

    It's easy to point out all the ridiculous statements:
    "nobody seems to care"
    "isn't a radical change"
    "open letters executives have been sending out"
    "poorly organized device launches I've seen in months"
    "BlackBerry 7 just becomes the world's biggest provider of cheap texting devices"
    "and its stock price and North American market share are in free fall"
    "BlackBerry PlayBook is running RIM's QNX OS, but it isn't driving conversation"
    "unimpressive new BlackBerries"
    "BlackBerry 7 just isn't a powerful enough engine to run the company alone for long"

    WTF? Has this person even held those devices?
    Any reasons to why he thinks they are inadequate with the best mobile browser to date and good specs?
    How are these phones so unimpressive?
    How is the design and hardware changes less radical than any other phone's upgrade?
    How is QNX so much better than BBOS7?
    How is this tablet that isn't driving conversation less popular than most of the tablets on the market?
    How does the stock price reflect on the quality of their new phones?
    How is it that you're writing this article if nobody seems to care?
    How do you know if it was an executive sending the letter out?
    Let's see this author find a global launch that was as organized as this one?

    He calls it an "opinion article" when it is actually closer to propaganda.
    Zizzzzy and 01itr like this.
    08-04-11 07:55 AM
  10. pbfan's Avatar
    phones. People still needs it for other countries! QNX will be for high end phones only.
    08-04-11 08:19 AM
  11. Zizzzzy's Avatar
    Hmmm.

    "Everyone knows what the company needs: its next-generation OS, QNX, on phones..."

    Followed by:

    "The BlackBerry PlayBook is running RIM's QNX OS, but it isn't driving conversation..."
    Just goes to show how all this media is just the same thoughts regurgitated over and over again without any thought by the people propagating it.

    The QNX guy used "Fully Baked in" to describe the QNX architecture moving forward, which in turn was flipped by a journalist or two to critisize, and now the term "Half Baked" is used by everybody for anything RIM related. Most people that say RIM needs QNX phones dont really even know why they are saying this, who knows what QNX phones will bring, and what they will be competing against?
    08-04-11 08:37 AM
  12. grover5's Avatar
    In my opinion, the idea that app development won't occur for OS 7 is ridiculous. There are multiple phones launching internationally with the liklihood of a few more yet to launch this year. There will be plenty of demand to encourage even the laziest app developer to make a few for OS 7. The argument that they won't just seems like the fantasy scenario for the anti BB crowd.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01itr and chiefbroski like this.
    08-04-11 09:16 AM
  13. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    In my opinion, the idea that app development won't occur for OS 7 is ridiculous. There are multiple phones launching internationally with the liklihood of a few more yet to launch this year. There will be plenty of demand to encourage even the laziest app developer to make a few for OS 7. The argument that they won't just seems like the fantasy scenario for the anti BB crowd.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I suspect that most of the apps already available for current devices will be available for OS 7 eventually. However, the majority of apps that are currently available only for iOS and Android will not be available for BlackBerry until QNX devices are out. Current BlackBerry developers will continue porting their apps, but developers who concentrate on iOS and Android will not see an overwhelming need to add the BlackBerry OS 7 platform.
    08-04-11 10:32 AM
  14. chiefbroski's Avatar
    I've sent my fair share of comments to the author defending the new BB7 phones. They have to know that the Blackberry community will not sit by and have great devices dismissed simply to feed the media's dread of a dying RIM. We cannot just sit here and deal with this.
    01itr and southlander like this.
    08-04-11 11:02 AM
  15. Economist101's Avatar
    RIM ain't Apple, thankfully, as they sell a wider variety of devices across the world. There was a time when RIM was known for a single device, stubbornly workmanlike and indifferent to whipsawing consumer market. Many people forget that these Co-heads successfully transformed RIM on the fly and grew the company amidst ongoing and radical transformation. There was no shortage of doomsayers back then, that equated RIM's entry into the consumer market with certain company death. Something to leaven the current apocalyptic coverage with.
    You do realize that the idea is to make money, not offer a bunch of different devices, right? If Apple sells 20 million iPhones in a quarter while RIM sells 13.2 million of its "wider variety of devices," where's the business advantage of offering multiple devices? To be clear, RIM doesn't need to be Apple to be successful, but in light of the numbers above, RIM's devices are simply not reaching enough customers.

    I'd also note that people haven't "forgotten" RIM's previous success or what Mike and Jim have done, but this is a "what have you done for me lately" world. As for the doomsayers, they're always there. Even Apple has doomsayers right now, even as they're sitting on $76 billion in cash.

    But there does seem to be a qualitative difference with RIM compared to Apple, Android and even Win Phone.
    Really. What is that difference, exactly?

    A lot of us out there like and hope to continue on with the RIM style UI and OS (while reasonably insisting that it be competitively upgraded in a timely manner). But we all don't share the same preferences in terms of display, keyboard and touchscreen. I credit RIM with respecting their customers wishes. How many articles in the last few years contained quotes from rival competitors that physical keyboards were done -- touchscreens were the only future so sit down, shut up, line up, pay up and start practicing for the privilege of being dictated to. There seemed to be an infectious arrogance that spread throughout the industry. I guess as long as everyone followed suit, they figured the customers could be cowed into lumping it if not liking it. I must have some recessive dino dna, because I still like the option of a physical keyboard and am appreciative that RIM has found a way to provide for us throwbacks while edging us along into a multimedia future.
    To me, respecting customers' wishes means offering devices that customers want to buy. See the numbers above.

    If you are looking for sea changes, watch if anything comes of Apple's rumored entry to the previously unworthy down-market, in the form of a lower priced Iphone. Maybe its a move borne of approaching high-end market saturation, but previously one of the things that Jobs always stood for was for his dogged refusal to devalue the worth of the priceless brand he so brilliantly created. Such a move may pay off in the form of even greater market share, but its not without its risks. Even if Apple is able to convince buyers of lower-end Iphones that they are as sanctified as Apple premium phone buyers, they risk upsetting that loyal and proud base that they own so completely. And there could also be an "Emperor Has No Clothes" effect, if it becomes plain beyond Apple's ability to spin that some of their products are second rate. They've navigated those waters before though, if you recall those cheesy looking toy Imacs, but even there, there needed to be some rebuilding of the golden image. In other sectors, such a downward move into a broader market often signalled the beginning of the end of sustained dominance by even the most storied companies.
    There are a lot of "ifs" in there, so I won't jump into senseless prognostication. As for the rumored move down market, those rumors flow from the same analysts you criticized as "doomsayers" earlier in your comment, so I'm not sure why you seem willing to trust them now.

    One tip though: less is more. You just spent 500+ words saying something you could've written in 300. The verbal embellishments (“stubbornly workmanlike and indifferent to whipsawing consumer market”, “leaven the current apocalyptic coverage”, “a delicate and complex dance”, “borne of approaching high-end market saturation”, “dogged refusal to devalue the worth of the priceless brand”) are fascinating, but they make your writing more difficult to read. You also seem to favor long sentences, but fewer commas and more periods would be nice.
    Last edited by Economist101; 08-04-11 at 12:35 PM.
    kevinnugent and mmcpher like this.
    08-04-11 12:33 PM
  16. Shlooky's Avatar
    I will have to pass on OS7.0 and see what QNX has to offer, OS7.0 to me is nothing more than a glorified OS6.1 theme, a patch until they get QNX on phones.

    Until then who know what the others will do, Ice Cream Sandwich, iOS 5.x Windows phone Mango will all have been released with updates.

    We'll see.
    08-04-11 12:39 PM
  17. kbz1960's Avatar
    I will have to pass on OS7.0 and see what QNX has to offer, OS7.0 to me is nothing more than a glorified OS6.1 theme, a patch until they get QNX on phones.

    Until then who know what the others will do, Ice Cream Sandwich, iOS 5.x Windows phone Mango will all have been released with updates.

    We'll see.
    Might as well keep on waiting on them all as **** off pie and iOS 6.x and some other flavored drink will be in the works. Then you can just keep what you have cause you'll always be waiting on the next best thing.
    08-04-11 12:52 PM
  18. Shlooky's Avatar
    Actually QNX will or should be radically different, OS7.0 is just another OS 6.0 which is a small upgrade from 5.0 and so on.

    I will wait, no need to lock in for another three years now.
    08-04-11 01:00 PM
  19. Wretch 12's Avatar
    Only uncredible rumours have circulated about the release date for QNX on the phone models, people should disregard these rumours and just get phones that run BB OS 7 - what's the worse case scenario? You'll maybe have a few months left on a 2 year contract when QNX comes out for mobile models.
    08-04-11 01:02 PM
  20. i7guy's Avatar
    The only reasons to run out and grab an OS6.1 device are:

    1) Your current phone is on its last breath and you are sure that all you'll want from a phone for the next 2-3 years are phone/e-mail/BBM.

    2) You are a BB fanboy.

    For everyone else, why not wait to see what Apple, Google and Microsoft all have in the works. Their updates should all be available within the next 3-4 months on devices that will certainly have better specs than the OS6.1 devices.
    You do know kbz was referring to iOS as in apple, not os 6.1 as in RIM. And yes I am a BB fanboy, I'd rather have an old BB than a new iphone. (Thankfully RIM saved me from myself).

    It's never really about the specs, a better camera does not a better phone make.
    08-04-11 01:16 PM
  21. grover5's Avatar
    The only reasons to run out and grab an OS6.1 device are:

    1) Your current phone is on its last breath and you are sure that all you'll want from a phone for the next 2-3 years are phone/e-mail/BBM.

    2) You are a BB fanboy.

    For everyone else, why not wait to see what Apple, Google and Microsoft all have in the works. Their updates should all be available within the next 3-4 months on devices that will certainly have better specs than the OS6.1 devices.
    That seems a little antagonistic. Perhaps some people prefer the BB OS and are impressed by the power and look of the new devices. The browser seems to perform as good as any on the market as well. I know the speaker on the 9900 is much better than any I have heard on the android phones I've owned. The battery life appears to far exceed the same phones with an equal or slower processor. Those would be some of my reasons for getting the 9900...along with that monster keyboard.
    08-04-11 01:20 PM
  22. kbz1960's Avatar
    The only reasons to run out and grab an OS6.1 device are:

    1) Your current phone is on its last breath and you are sure that all you'll want from a phone for the next 2-3 years are phone/e-mail/BBM.

    2) You are a BB fanboy.

    For everyone else, why not wait to see what Apple, Google and Microsoft all have in the works. Their updates should all be available within the next 3-4 months on devices that will certainly have better specs than the OS6.1 devices.
    Well I don't think the only reasons but maybe some people like to think for themself and get what they like instead of worrying if they are keeping up with Jonse's or using what is considered cool or in.

    Not to say those are bad platforms either, just not for everyone.
    Shlooky likes this.
    08-04-11 01:38 PM
  23. Shlooky's Avatar
    Good comment kbz...I am not dismissing BB's all together, just in no hurry to buy a phone only for a few months until the QNX phones are released, reviewed and meets my needs.

    In the mean time, I will also check the others.
    08-04-11 01:48 PM
  24. kbz1960's Avatar
    Cool, you can let us know about them then.
    08-04-11 01:51 PM
  25. mmcpher's Avatar
    You do realize that the idea is to make money, not offer a bunch of different devices, right? If Apple sells 20 million iPhones in a quarter while RIM sells 13.2 million of its "wider variety of devices,". . . . There are a lot of "ifs" in there, so I won't jump into senseless prognostication. As for the rumored move down market, those rumors flow from the same analysts you criticized as "doomsayers" earlier in your comment, so I'm not sure why you seem willing to trust them now.

    One tip though: less is more. You just spent 500+ words saying something you could've written in 300. The verbal embellishments (stubbornly workmanlike and indifferent to whipsawing consumer market, leaven the current apocalyptic coverage, a delicate and complex dance, borne of approaching high-end market saturation, dogged refusal to devalue the worth of the priceless brand) are fascinating, but they make your writing more difficult to read. You also seem to favor long sentences, but fewer commas and more periods would be nice.
    Go, long, on, purpose, fight, against, twitterization. . . .
    08-04-11 03:30 PM
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