1. adrenaline_x's Avatar
    I think people will move away from the iphones eventually because when everyone has one, they won't be as cool

    Geeks like Android because most geeks support opensource projects (android).

    I just dumped my iphone 4 after being with apple for 3 years... The 9860 looks to be my new phone... Apple screwed up with the iphone for me and i had all sort of signal/call quality issues. I love my playbook and i haven't used my ipad since. So i might as sell both as a package deal to some one else that has to have a device with apple on it.

    I think these new phones look awesome compared to the 9780 and other devices they are set to replace. I want to see a real world test of the browser loading pages like crackberry, endgadget, tsn etc... The browser is the most important thing for me.. All smart phones handle email fairly well.. So if the browser is on par with the iphone 4 i'm ready to lock in and begin to upgrade our corporate phones.
    08-04-11 04:08 PM
  2. Rooster99's Avatar
    Well I don't think the only reasons but maybe some people like to think for themself and get what they like instead of worrying if they are keeping up with Jonse's or using what is considered cool or in.

    Not to say those are bad platforms either, just not for everyone.
    You do realize that your statement above implies anyone thinking for themselves would get a Berry, while anyone buying an iPhone or Android phone must be making their decision simply because they're looking to be cool or in?

    Do you not think people could think for themselves and then decide to buy an iPhone or Android phone on that basis?

    With all due respect, there's a pretty heavy personal bias being shown here. Which is fine, but I'd like to see it acknowledged.

    - R.
    08-04-11 06:59 PM
  3. southlander's Avatar
    Soo... Is this article wrong? What are these new phones offering for a new experience? Slight speed enhancements? Same app selection right? Likely less because devs wont work on it due to qnx on the horizon? Or has rim promised backwards compatibility ?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Sort of. With it being an "opinion piece" there is no such as wrong I suppose. Though the guy does contradict his self.

    I'd say from the perspective of those that have older BlackBerry devices, OS7 looks great. Not a little faster, a lot faster. I personally think the QNX stuff will have a harder time getting traction in apps, unless RIM has a "compatibility" apps player that allows old BB apps to work as well. Kinda like when Apple did the whole carbon/cocoa thing. Gently pull everyone along into the new environment.
    08-04-11 07:00 PM
  4. falconeight's Avatar
    The phones and os look great. I just would not put money into something that is not going to be supported in a few months. Its to much money and time to invest in a expensive product. I will wait for qnx phones, hopefully by then I dont need pair it to a older bb to get email or calendar.
    08-04-11 07:21 PM
  5. avt123's Avatar
    Well I don't think the only reasons but maybe some people like to think for themself and get what they like instead of worrying if they are keeping up with Jonse's or using what is considered cool or in.

    Not to say those are bad platforms either, just not for everyone.
    So you are basically saying people who buy iPhones or Android devices can't think for themselves. BB users are the only people in the world who have control over their brain, right?

    Do people forget about all the kids buying BBs because they think BBM is cool? Everyone I knew who had a smartphone before the iPhone came out had BBs. Now there are more choices and there are only a few of them who continue to use BBs.
    08-04-11 07:21 PM
  6. southlander's Avatar
    Actually QNX will or should be radically different.
    I hope it's not all that different. I find what I currently use to be very effective.
    08-04-11 07:27 PM
  7. southlander's Avatar
    The phones and os look great. I just would not put money into something that is not going to be supported in a few months.
    Who said OS7 will not be supported in a few months?
    08-04-11 07:30 PM
  8. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    The title should be changed to reflect the real situation. It's OS 6.1 and not OS7. There's nothing radically different between this OS and OS6 that released on the 9800. In reality it's all the same minus a couple of additions.

    Liquid Graphics: In other words, a smooth UI that an up to date processor gives a device. Nothing revolutionary other than RIM finally upgrading it's HW.

    JIT: Just in time javascript complier that should have been included in OS6.

    Augmented Reality browser: definitely a cool feature, but it doesn't bring the rest of the platform up to the competitions level.

    The bottom line is OS7 is truly only OS 6.1 It's nothing radically different than OS6. Is it better? Oh **** yes. And the Blackberry faithful will be pleasantly pleased. But...

    Any way, the bottom line is RIM won't truly compete with the competition until QNX on HH's is released. OS 6.1 is definitely a much needed upgrade!! But let's don't all act like we have no sense and think OS 6.1 puts BlackBerry up there with the competition. It doesn't. Only QNX on handhelds will do this.
    anon3396357 likes this.
    08-04-11 07:34 PM
  9. southlander's Avatar
    The title should be changed to reflect the real situation. It's OS 6.1 and not OS7.
    RIM has as much right to version it that way as Google did to plow through 4 version numbers in Chrome in 2011 alone. Err make that 5 major versions of Chrome. And the year's not done yet.
    08-04-11 07:40 PM
  10. PDM's Avatar
    [...]
    But let's don't all act like we have no sense and think OS 6.1 puts BlackBerry up there with the competition. It doesn't. Only QNX on handhelds will do this.
    +1

    Do I really need a slightly faster phone for my needs? No.

    6-9 month wait, for QNX, is going to be agony...
    08-04-11 07:42 PM
  11. dodger_moore's Avatar
    phones. People still needs it for other countries! QNX will be for high end phones only.
    So you consider markets outside of your country 'low end'? As if India, Malaysia, Korea etc...are still scrabbling around chasing chickens?

    Oh - my bad, I get it now. You're posting from India and referring to the USA being nearly bankrupt, ergo your suggested low end market.

    As you were then!
    08-04-11 07:51 PM
  12. BBThemes's Avatar
    bottom line, theres always something bigger, better, faster and cooler around the corner. and thats not just applicable to phones.
    08-04-11 07:57 PM
  13. dodger_moore's Avatar
    The bottom line is OS7 is truly only OS 6.1 It's nothing radically different than OS6. Is it better? Oh **** yes. And the Blackberry faithful will be pleasantly pleased. But...

    Any way, the bottom line is RIM won't truly compete with the competition until QNX on HH's is released. OS 6.1 is definitely a much needed upgrade!! But let's don't all act like we have no sense and think OS 6.1 puts BlackBerry up there with the competition. It doesn't. Only QNX on handhelds will do this.
    So many bottom lines

    Great post and refreshing to read. Crucial, would you (or another member) answer a two part question:

    What other platforms have an eagerly awaited OS like QNX (it may be the others aren't in such desperate need), and do you think QNX phones will shoulder to the front of the pack?

    Or will RIM find a way to feck it up again? *

    *3 part question.
    08-04-11 07:58 PM
  14. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    So many bottom lines

    Great post and refreshing to read. Crucial, would you (or another member) answer a two part question:

    What other platforms have an eagerly awaited OS like QNX (it may be the others aren't in such desperate need), and do you think QNX phones will shoulder to the front of the pack?

    Or will RIM find a way to feck it up again? *

    *3 part question.
    I don't think QNX will automatically move RIM to the front of the pack, no. But look at iOS & Android. They had to mature. This is what the PlayBook allows RIM to do. Mature the platform while developing handsets.
    So no, it won't move them ahead of the pack. But it will give them the opportunity to eventually pass the competition, which is all anyone could ever ask for. It will at least, put them on equal footing which should shut up all detractors who have a brain. )))
    grover5 likes this.
    08-04-11 08:07 PM
  15. dodger_moore's Avatar
    I don't think QNX will automatically move RIM to the front of the pack, no. But look at iOS & Android. They had to mature. This is what the PlayBook allows RIM to do. Mature the platform while developing handsets.
    So no, it won't move them ahead of the pack. But it will give them the opportunity to eventually pass the competition, which is all anyone could ever ask for. It will at least, put them on equal footing which should shut up all detractors who have a brain. )))
    Thanks Crucial,

    So it would give the BlackBerry more potential than the others then? In my opinion that would switch the situation we've been witnessing the last couplenof years regarding BB OS vs Android and IOS.

    To me it seemed that BB OS started losing favour when techies figured it had less potential rather than less practical functionality than the others. Kind of like where we see the PB now, not as practical as say an iPad but deffo got longer legs.

    I think that many BB fans would love the novelty of their phones being in that bracket and being thought of as weird and wonderfull again.
    08-04-11 08:20 PM
  16. sportline's Avatar
    Playbook will mature..? Yeah thought so. It looks old now.
    I bet bbos 7 and 8 will continue. This qnx will take forever to "mature" maybe 3 years. Rim risks losing sales by relying on qnx only, so bbos will continue.
    Qnx will be offered at super phone level, a niche player, similar to playbook. Until it can actually works, enough apps, decent.battery life, then it may trickle down to mid market level.
    08-04-11 08:22 PM
  17. dodger_moore's Avatar
    +1

    Do I really need a slightly faster phone for my needs? No.

    6-9 month wait, for QNX, is going to be agony...
    I do, I need a considerably faster phone for my needs. Love the 9700 but it can no longer cut it. I need to be able to respond in a moment and not wait for some bloody hourglass to stop spinning.

    So much so I ordered a Samsung Galaxy S2. Never misses a beat but the messaging integration and notification is not as good as the BB. I'll be honest, I wished it was, it's a much nicer phone.

    I'll be getting that 9900 to tide me over.
    08-04-11 08:26 PM
  18. anon3396357's Avatar
    Playbook will mature..? Yeah thought so. It looks old now.
    I bet bbos 7 and 8 will continue. This qnx will take forever to "mature" maybe 3 years. Rim risks losing sales by relying on qnx only, so bbos will continue.
    Qnx will be offered at super phone level, a niche player, similar to playbook. Until it can actually works, enough apps, decent.battery life, then it may trickle down to mid market level.
    If there's a BBOS8 I don't know how RIM is going to justify that jump in number. Maybe "Liquid Graphics 2" or something.

    CX and many others are right in saying that OS7 is really OS6.1 in disguise. It's pretty simple to discern this: take away all the hardware upgrades on the new phones and OS7 is almost nothing. The iPhone 4 was spec bumped from 3G/3GS, and iOS4 brought features and performance improvements to the 3G/3GS on the same hardware. Bada 1.2 brought features and performance improvements to old Samsung phones running Bada 1.0.

    I drew 4 possible conclusions from this comparison:
    1. BBOS is so highly optimized that no further improvements can be made on existing hardware
    2. Existing BB hardware is outdated and hence no further improvements can be made
    3. iOS3 and Bada 1.0 were not optimized enough
    4. iPhone 3G/3GS and Bada 1.0 phones had advanced hardware which paved the way for OS upgrades

    The reason why I used iOS and Bada as examples is because these two OSes are proprietary software written for phones Apple and Samsung made themselves, which is the same for RIM. Although iOS4 ran slow on 3G initially, it eventually smoothened out for better performance.
    08-04-11 09:16 PM
  19. cbreze's Avatar
    It seems most of you have an upgrade coming and can get the cheaper price, 300 bucks last I heard. Thats a hard enough price to fathom swallowing and have to lock in a contract as well. What about those with no upgrade and a 600 buck ding, last I heard. Is os7 worth all that cash? Considering what it delivers.
    08-04-11 09:42 PM
  20. falconeight's Avatar
    Who said OS7 will not be supported in a few months?
    Rim is moving to qnx in the near future.
    08-04-11 10:04 PM
  21. falconeight's Avatar
    bottom line, theres always something bigger, better, faster and cooler around the corner. and thats not just applicable to phones.
    You are correct but unlike past bb upgrades or other phones os upgrades it will be a totally different os. Thats kind of scary, even if the phones look damn nice.
    08-04-11 10:07 PM
  22. dv220s's Avatar
    There are many things that RIM needs to do. OS 7 might do the trick but it isn't substantially different from OS 6. First needs to be getting that QNX Phone OS out, second getting 1 of 2 CEOs out and three is making a superphone nobody would even expect out of any company. More things can be done but that's just a little thing they can do.
    08-04-11 10:12 PM
  23. cwong15's Avatar
    The title should be changed to reflect the real situation. It's OS 6.1 and not OS7. There's nothing radically different between this OS and OS6 that released on the 9800. In reality it's all the same minus a couple of additions.

    Liquid Graphics: In other words, a smooth UI that an up to date processor gives a device. Nothing revolutionary other than RIM finally upgrading it's HW.

    JIT: Just in time javascript complier that should have been included in OS6.
    I wouldn't belittle the accomplishments in OS7. Certainly, some of its accomplishments are quite a jump compared to (for example) OS 4.5 -> OS 5. Here are two examples.

    Liquid Graphics: it's more than what you described. This is true GPU-accelerated UI. Android doesn't have it. Android folks are eagerly looking forward to precisely this feature, but it's only in the future Honeycomb 3.0. If this justifies a full version bump in Android, why not BBOS? This is an example of a feature that requires both software support and new hardware (the OpenGL-capable GPU). If it's so easy, why doesn't Android have it after all this time?

    JIT compiler: this is a big deal for a a platform where apps based on web technology (HTML/CSS/JavaScript) is really taking off. You want your WebWorks apps fast? You want this. This is not Java/Dalvik JIT: JIT for JavaScript is actually very new and cutting edge. Android doesn't have this, nor iPhone. I believe the JavaScript JIT compiler is why OS7's browser performance is blows Android's away, more than twice as fast in one benchmark. It's faster than the iPhone too.

    In other words, these two features that you dismissed as unremarkable are actually industry-leading features.
    sivan, Neely2005 and Bobcat665 like this.
    08-04-11 10:17 PM
  24. sportline's Avatar
    Its similar to nokia. Bb7 is rim's symbian anna. The symbian belle will come after. And they still keep meego on. Even if everybody says wp7 is the saviour? See the pattern?
    So basically rim will never put all its bet on qnx. If it doesnt work, plan b is there.
    08-04-11 11:15 PM
  25. sivan's Avatar
    Good post cwong15.

    I doubt that any of those who posted in this thread can articulate what is it that they think QNX will give RIM to compete with others. They just want to know it's there.

    Mike L said that when QNX will appear on a phone it will pretty much look like a miniature Playbook UI. And the Playbook UI pretty much looks like OS6.

    What, exactly, do you see in the Playbook that you can't wait to see on QNX phones? I don't see anything that's not already delivered in OS7.

    The Blackberry OS is mature. It has always had multitasking, something that took 3 generations for the iPhone to get. It has always had push notifications, something that will come out only on iOS5. And now it added hardware graphics acceleration and well executed browser optimization (described in one of the recent CB podcast interviewing the Torch browser team). Android hasn't even got that yet.

    The things that QNX can deliver are more long term in nature and will only indirectly affect users. RIM will be able to develop faster with it, which will mean features coming to market quicker than before. It will be able to adapt the OS to multiple device form factors like car systems, phones and tablets, using a very modular code base. It will accelerate development, in the long term. In the coming year users will be hard pressed to tell what OS runs on their phones. QNX will not bring much that's new that's consumer facing, at least for a while.

    My concern is the impact on 3rd developers. From descriptions so far, current Blackberry apps will also run in a player, like the Android one. The player is there not as a Java SDK, but to create "tonnage" of apps. To current Blackberry OS developers it's a dead end.
    08-04-11 11:23 PM
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