12-17-16 08:24 AM
150 ... 456
tools
  1. Dirtymike14's Avatar
    Haha... Next time you're getting your car worked on, tell the mechanic doing the work that the tools (Snap-On??) in his roll around are outdated relics from a long forgotten past and that NO "smart" person uses them anymore... Tell him about how "generic" tools outsell SnapOn and how "the market" has decided generics are "just as good"... AND say this publicly and loudly so that his other customers hear... Lol. See how "personally" he views the essential tools of his livelihood... Haha.

    "Smart"phones are essential tools of livelihood for SOME of us. Lol.

    I, personally, don't consider any "smart"phone demanding two handed "drag, guess & hope" for speadsheet editing to be very "smart", imo.

    My company edits quite a few thousand spreadsheets per year. My "smart guys" constantly test handsets of all platforms in effort to maintain our lead over very capable competition. I can safely speak authoritatively about that single attribute of "smart"phones.

    Classic is the best of BB10, and the second best "smart"phone ever, for spreadsheet editing. The best ever being 9900. By MY definition of "smart".

    Maybe irrelevant "fun" to Pokemon masters but food-on-the-table serious for SOME of us.
    See that's would be more believable if Snap On started making crappy tools like the generic ones (mastercraft, husky, craftsman), only problem is that snap on is constantly improving their tools with little tweaks here and there but while still remaining the best tool manufacturer out there, and are producing the best tools , even though they may be slightly overpriced.

    Remind you a little of Apple vs android?
    12-12-16 10:24 PM
  2. hobgoblin1961's Avatar
    Best tool for the job is the best tool for the job. Regardless of vintage. Regardless of technology.

    Tools of livelihood can be very personal & serious topics. Regardless of vintage. Regardless of technology.
    Absolut!
    My old Leica M6 which I bought new in 1986 and was used very extensive still exceeded any digital camera in picture quality and functionality still after 30 years because of it's simple reduction, not even a battery is needed.
    BlackBerry 10 must live-leica-m6-mp_winder.jpeg
    Most importantly is that I know how to handle this thing blind without destruction or further thoughts, just an extension of my hands and eye.

    Posted either via -Passport -Classic / OS-10.3.++ is all you need
    12-13-16 03:11 AM
  3. idssteve's Avatar
    That sounds a lot like, say, an author who prefers to write with pen and paper longhand, or on a manual typewriter - and making the argument that "it's the best tool for me." Objectively, it's virtually impossible to argue against a modern computer and word processor that can spell-check, handle formatting, track revisions, handle footnotes, etc. Really, such writers are saying "it's what I PREFER, even knowing it's inferior in many ways, because I'm stuck in my ways and refuse to move forward." To argue that it's objectively better to use a manual typewriter (unless you're writing outdoors in Africa or something) is simply incorrect and being intentionally contradictory. Yes, there's an edge-case exception (and perhaps several), but the vast majority would not be best served with the manual typewriter.

    And that's what we're saying here. Certainly there may be a few edge-cases where BB10 is the "best" mobile OS for the limited set of tasks a person needs to accomplish, but the vast majority of people would not be best served with BB10 (especially in its current state, much less its future state!) over Android or iOS - because most people can't or won't deal with all of the many work-arounds, broken features, and limitations of the OS and ecosystem - they have actual work to do and need a platform that works right, every time, the first time, and is supported by all the other vendors, service providers, customers, and partners they interact with.

    If that wasn't true, then iOS and Android wouldn't collectively control 99.7% of the global smartphone market - but they do.
    Typewriters aren't smartphones, Troy... Haha... Had to throw that in there... Lol.

    I've never been fond of BB10, as implemented, and still view ML's stupid "fresh start" as the biggest mistake of BlackBerry's history, sooo... You don't find me advocating BB10 as THE tool for ALL jobs.

    My motive for posting in this thread at all was to express empathy with the "tiny percent" who feel "bread on the table" personal and serious about their tools of livelihood. A "tiny percent" who routinely endures the typical condescension expressed in your first paragraph, Troy.

    Hard as it is for the 99.7 percenters to comprehend, a few of us truly find other tools to be better suited for OUR jobs. Your inability to understand us doesn't automatically make US the ones lacking ability to understand... Lol.

    Please respect that enduring the downsides of using 5 year old smartphones, these days, is NOT a choice made in ignorance.
    12-13-16 06:54 AM
  4. app_Developer's Avatar
    Absolut!
    My old Leica M6 which I bought new in 1986 and was used very extensive still exceeded any digital camera in picture quality and functionality still after 30 years because of it's simple reduction, not even a battery is needed.

    Most importantly is that I know how to handle this thing blind without destruction or further thoughts, just an extension of my hands and eye.
    I guess we all have different needs. I have an M6 also, which I enjoyed for many years, but now I take thousands of pictures with my MP-240 versus maybe 20 a year with my M6. It's nice to pull out the old cameras once in a while for nostalgia sake, but if I'm going on a trip, I'm much more likely to make a digital camera.

    Sharing is the major reason.
    12-13-16 07:08 AM
  5. JohnKCG's Avatar
    Absolut!
    My old Leica M6 which I bought new in 1986 and was used very extensive still exceeded any digital camera in picture quality and functionality still after 30 years because of it's simple reduction, not even a battery is needed.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Leica-M6-MP_winder.jpeg 
Views:	337 
Size:	41.2 KB 
ID:	414151
    Most importantly is that I know how to handle this thing blind without destruction or further thoughts, just an extension of my hands and eye.

    Posted either via -Passport -Classic / OS-10.3.++ is all you need
    First I see a commodore here, now a Leica, the next thing is My old Z10 stl100-1 which finally was killed and EOLed with 10.3.3

    Posted via CB10
    12-13-16 07:26 AM
  6. idssteve's Avatar
    Steve, what spread sheet program app do you use on your Blackberry phones?

    As a bit of side note, I see where Microsoft has a one-handed mode for its keyboard app, and Google has one as well. You are a one handed practitioner.
    Old fashioned Docs to Go. BB10's DTG still lacks ability to insert rows so BBOS DTG on 9900 still reigns supreme for our uses. In fact, I frequently find myself pulling out my 9900 rather than using the PC I'm sitting in front of. 9900 is THAT good for such things! I've long advocated that Microsoft should include 9900 trackpad and form factor handsets as data entry terminals for Excel!! Lol.

    Probably most of our spreadsheets are initially generated at CAD stations. Our handsets typically only edit the cells. Which is why we can mostly get by without the row insert function stupidly omitted from BB10. Classic being the only BB10 that gets within reasonable reach of 9900 productivity for these activities. Productivity quantified through analysis of 10+ yeas of in house experience at a particular niche service that truly tests data entry performance.

    10 years ago, it once required "Two Techs and a Toughbook" (laptop) WEEKS to perform this QC/QA validation service niche. Still does, for some of our tech averse competitors. Now, thanks to our single handed capable 9900s, a single tech gets the same job done in less than a week.

    We didn't leverage that technology to trim labor force. We "niche marketed" that productivity to expand our client base! Much to the chagrin of very capable competitors. Much to the gratitude of management, BOD AND clients. As well as employee-coworkers Lol. A win-win technological ADVANCEment. As opposed to technological compromise frequently touted as "advancement" by virtue of chronology. Lol.

    I have not personally tried any recent version Windows phone but have toyed with various "single handed" droid attempts. My "smart guys" can't sleep at night suspecting there might be some better way to do ANYthing and frequently bring droid & iOS stuff for us to try. We have a "Plan D" ready to implement once plan B & C are exhausted. (That's plans Bold & Classic lol). The best we've tried so far for A, D & non-trackpad B will hit our profitable productivity significantly so... Mean time, so long as plan B is most profitable, B it is. Lol.

    As with any laboratory result, relevance to reality is circumstantial. Virtually no consumer has interest in, or even knowledge of, spreadsheets. Droid & iOS have profitably implemented nicely short, noob friendly, learning curves. Unanimous consensus among my crew is that the efficiencies we've re-learned to appreciate in 9900 might some day again find favor among some of current consumer noobs migrating to "power user" aspiration. ?? Probably not next year, maybe not next decade?? Next century??? Lol.


    I'll see what my "smart guys" think of recent Windows phone single hand provision... Thanks for the tip.
    12-13-16 09:15 AM
  7. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Typewriters aren't smartphones, Troy... Haha... Had to throw that in there... Lol.

    I've never been fond of BB10, as implemented, and still view ML's stupid "fresh start" as the biggest mistake of BlackBerry's history, sooo... You don't find me advocating BB10 as THE tool for ALL jobs.

    My motive for posting in this thread at all was to express empathy with the "tiny percent" who feel "bread on the table" personal and serious about their tools of livelihood. A "tiny percent" who routinely endures the typical condescension expressed in your first paragraph, Troy.

    Hard as it is for the 99.7 percenters to comprehend, a few of us truly find other tools to be better suited for OUR jobs. Your inability to understand us doesn't automatically make US the ones lacking ability to understand... Lol.

    Please respect that enduring the downsides of using 5 year old smartphones, these days, is NOT a choice made in ignorance.
    Steve, if the BlackBerry solution is so integral to your business needs what is your long term strategy to transition to something else.

    Posted via CB10
    12-13-16 09:18 AM
  8. idssteve's Avatar
    Steve, if the BlackBerry solution is so integral to your business needs what is your long term strategy to transition to something else.

    Posted via CB10
    Yep, same question gets asked EVERY board meeting. Justifiably so. We call it Plan D. See post 131 above. It's ready to implement and constantly upgraded as newer "candy" & things develop. We also have pretty good productivity predictions... Necessary knowledge for bidding, naturally.
    12-13-16 09:50 AM
  9. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Old fashioned Docs to Go. BB10's DTG still lacks ability to insert rows so BBOS DTG on 9900 still reigns supreme for our uses. In fact, I frequently find myself pulling out my 9900 rather than using the PC I'm sitting in front of. 9900 is THAT good for such things! I've long advocated that Microsoft should include 9900 trackpad and form factor handsets as data entry terminals for Excel!! Lol.

    Probably most of our spreadsheets are initially generated at CAD stations. Our handsets typically only edit the cells. Which is why we can mostly get by without the row insert function stupidly omitted from BB10. Classic being the only BB10 that gets within reasonable reach of 9900 productivity for these activities. Productivity quantified through analysis of 10+ yeas of in house experience at a particular niche service that truly tests data entry performance.

    10 years ago, it once required "Two Techs and a Toughbook" (laptop) WEEKS to perform this QC/QA validation service niche. Still does, for some of our tech averse competitors. Now, thanks to our single handed capable 9900s, a single tech gets the same job done in less than a week.

    We didn't leverage that technology to trim labor force. We "niche marketed" that productivity to expand our client base! Much to the chagrin of very capable competitors. Much to the gratitude of management, BOD AND clients. As well as employee-coworkers Lol. A win-win technological ADVANCEment. As opposed to technological compromise frequently touted as "advancement" by virtue of chronology. Lol.

    I have not personally tried any recent version Windows phone but have toyed with various "single handed" droid attempts. My "smart guys" can't sleep at night suspecting there might be some better way to do ANYthing and frequently bring droid & iOS stuff for us to try. We have a "Plan D" ready to implement once plan B & C are exhausted. (That's plans Bold & Classic lol). The best we've tried so far for A, D & non-trackpad B will hit our profitable productivity significantly so... Mean time, so long as plan B is most profitable, B it is. Lol.

    As with any laboratory result, relevance to reality is circumstantial. Virtually no consumer has interest in, or even knowledge of, spreadsheets. Droid & iOS have profitably implemented nicely short, noob friendly, learning curves. Unanimous consensus among my crew is that the efficiencies we've re-learned to appreciate in 9900 might some day again find favor among some of current consumer noobs migrating to "power user" aspiration. ?? Probably not next year, maybe not next decade?? Next century??? Lol.


    I'll see what my "smart guys" think of recent Windows phone single hand provision... Thanks for the tip.
    Thanks for taking the time to respond.

    I just tried out DTG from the Google Play Store on my Samsung and I was able to insert a row.

    I tried a DTG APK on my BB10 Z10 device and I was able to insert a row.

    Maybe you should test out the APK on your Classic?
    12-13-16 11:16 AM
  10. idssteve's Avatar
    Thanks for taking the time to respond.

    I just tried out DTG from the Google Play Store on my Samsung and I was able to insert a row.

    I tried a DTG APK on my BB10 Z10 device and I was able to insert a row.

    Maybe you should test out the APK on your Classic?
    Thanks for trying that. It's been an option but prefer to keep it native, if possible. We do get by without row insert but quite irritating at times. Just perplexing that provision got left out of BB10. Go figure.
    12-13-16 12:35 PM
  11. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Ah..Steve now you are placing ideology above productivity.
    TgeekB and Elephant_Canyon like this.
    12-13-16 02:41 PM
  12. conite's Avatar
    @idssteve, it seems you have built a workflow around BBOS, instead of using a smartphone to handle your workflow.
    12-13-16 03:31 PM
  13. TCB on Z10's Avatar
    Tools of livelihood can be very personal & serious topics. Regardless of vintage. Regardless of technology.
    Tim Allen liked Binford tools on Tool Time ( and uses a Passport in real life). What does that say? : )

    BB, Still the One
    12-13-16 04:36 PM
  14. idssteve's Avatar
    Ah..Steve now you are placing ideology above productivity.
    Haha... Don't get me started on Google... "Ideology" aside, trust wise, too many of us worked at & near pre-Oracle Sun to put much "blind" faith in Google scruples... Lol

    Optimal productivity is still provided by our 9900s so no sacrifice there. Classic, even with the APK, can't match it. Once forced, by BIS or 3G, we'll likely APK our Classics & deal with it. After that comes Plan D ... Or retirement... Again... Lol.
    Bbnivende likes this.
    12-13-16 05:03 PM
  15. idssteve's Avatar
    @idssteve, it seems you have built a workflow around BBOS, instead of using a smartphone to handle your workflow.
    Well, the work flow discussed here is really built around Excel. We've explored alternates to that but it's pretty well embedded into virtually all client expectations. As well as CAD package interactions. Not easily altered but nothing's impossible. Always alert for market opportunities tho...lol.

    No faster method to edit thousands of text cells than 9900, in our testing & experience. Open to suggestions tho???
    12-13-16 05:22 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    No faster method to edit thousands of text cells than 9900, in our testing & experience. Open to suggestions tho???
    Using Microsoft Excel on my DTEK60 is exceptionally smooth. It also integrates seamlessly with OneDrive.
    12-13-16 05:28 PM
  17. idssteve's Avatar
    Using Microsoft Excel on my DTEK60 is exceptionally smooth. It also integrates seamlessly with OneDrive.
    I'm told that our resident "speed demon" has a new DTEK60. If she's willing, we'll press her into some spreadsheet testing on a project, next week. I need something new to report other than the tired 3 year old Z/Q10 & 30 data.
    Bbnivende likes this.
    12-13-16 06:41 PM
  18. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Absolut!
    My old Leica M6 which I bought new in 1986 and was used very extensive still exceeded any digital camera in picture quality and functionality still after 30 years because of it's simple reduction, not even a battery is needed.
    That M6 is a fantastic film camera! But... if your job was to be a photographer today in most industries that use them (where time is of the essence and you'd need to get those photos sent out ASAP), you probably wouldn't carry your beloved M6 - you'd almost certainly carry something digital - probably that also had WiFi - because few clients are willing to wait for film to be developed anymore. Heck, in many photog positions, you need to get your pics in within minutes of taking them, or you'll be replaced by someone who can.

    Of course there is still a place for a film camera, but, like BB10, it's an increasingly smaller niche that's harder and harder to support (film companies have discontinued so many types of film already it's crazy). It's not that the M6 takes bad pictures - it's as good as it always was (which is damn good if the person using it can use it well) - it's just that in every OTHER way, it's far behind the times. It's more expensive (film, slide scanners, etc.), much longer turn-around time (film developing vs. copying/uploading files), and requires tons more gear to be self-sustaining (no chemicals, dark-room, paper, scanners, etc. needed with digital).

    The few people still using film cameras are doing so mostly for "artistic" reasons - and that's fine, but few artists live a mainstream lifestyle.
    Elephant_Canyon likes this.
    12-13-16 09:24 PM
  19. anon(9721108)'s Avatar
    Absolut!
    My old Leica M6 which I bought new in 1986 and was used very extensive still exceeded any digital camera in picture quality and functionality still after 30 years because of it's simple reduction, not even a battery is needed.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Leica-M6-MP_winder.jpeg 
Views:	337 
Size:	41.2 KB 
ID:	414151
    Most importantly is that I know how to handle this thing blind without destruction or further thoughts, just an extension of my hands and eye.

    Posted either via -Passport -Classic / OS-10.3.++ is all you need
    You call that old? I just sold my Pentax "S" from 1958 and a Ricoh Auto 66 Twin Lens that shoots 120 Medium format film. NO DIGITAL camera can compete with medium format the last time I read because the negatives were so huge, the clarity is amazing for blowups and you can see actual "depth" in each photo. I think 120 film works out to 55 Megapixel if I recall. Someone can check.

    Old can be better in many cases.

    EDIT: I checked and 120 works out to about 30 MP's in film. So it looks like Digital has surpassed this now. Still for a person that knows what he is doing, like one using a 9900, there are things that can be done well by those who prefer it.....if not better in some cases.

    There is no such thing as a "perfect device" for everyone because everyone has different skills, levels of patience, keyboard preferences, favourits tasks they are more efficient on for each device, etc.

    It's all subjective, more or less and depending on what you need to get done on that device.

    -sent from a beautiful Bold 9900
    Last edited by Ralph Morgotch; 12-14-16 at 03:36 AM.
    12-14-16 03:17 AM
  20. hobgoblin1961's Avatar
    That M6 is a fantastic film camera! But... if your job was to be a photographer today in most industries that use them (where time is of the essence and you'd need to get those photos sent out ASAP), you probably wouldn't carry your beloved M6 - you'd almost certainly carry something digital - probably that also had WiFi - because few clients are willing to wait for film to be developed anymore. Heck, in many photog positions, you need to get your pics in within minutes of taking them, or you'll be replaced by someone who can.

    Of course there is still a place for a film camera, but, like BB10, it's an increasingly smaller niche that's harder and harder to support (film companies have discontinued so many types of film already it's crazy). It's not that the M6 takes bad pictures - it's as good as it always was (which is damn good if the person using it can use it well) - it's just that in every OTHER way, it's far behind the times. It's more expensive (film, slide scanners, etc.), much longer turn-around time (film developing vs. copying/uploading files), and requires tons more gear to be self-sustaining (no chemicals, dark-room, paper, scanners, etc. needed with digital).

    The few people still using film cameras are doing so mostly for "artistic" reasons - and that's fine, but few artists live a mainstream lifestyle.
    Yes the Leica M-D which was introduced this year is the only one digital camera I was waiting for as alternative for your mentioned reasons, just a plain camera without screen and dozens of buttons, anything else is out of question.
    And you are right a lifestyle off the beaten mainstream track is much more interesting and enjoyable than being pushed in the middle of the sticky mess but it's got it's price too.

    You mention that it would be easier on digital than analogue?
    Well try to be creative without electricity or in some cases need to because there is no electricity for weeks.
    Most people are stuck without batteries this days, try without at least for some time :-)

    Posted either via -Passport -Classic / OS-10.3.++ is all you need
    12-14-16 05:08 AM
  21. idssteve's Avatar
    Irreverently butchered Spotmatic to fit up amateur astrophotography rig back in high school. Uglier than sin but still works. Lol.

    Never tried digital for that but hear it's really good, these days. No waiting for processing at the drug store to see if you got the tracking right, with digital... Lol.
    12-14-16 06:14 AM
  22. iUser's Avatar
    And all of these ideas begin with the wish "BlackBerry 10 must live"...

    Posted through my  Z30
    12-14-16 12:13 PM
  23. YesAndNo's Avatar
    Yes indeed. BB10 lives on!

    Posted via CB10
    12-17-16 12:34 AM
  24. johnny_bravo72's Avatar
    Yes indeed. BB10 lives on!

    Posted via CB10
    In spirit.
    12-17-16 01:19 AM
  25. JohnKCG's Avatar
    In spirit.
    Hey Johnny I Heard CN was rebooting you next year in a more "Women-Friendly" version called "Johnny and Suzy", it is right?, on topic, people still uses Symbian so why BlackBerry 10 Will die that quickly?

    Posted via CB10
    12-17-16 08:24 AM
150 ... 456

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