[berklon]

To that end we are all essentially "users" of QNX we have faith in them already. Why can we not translate the faith to RIM?

Two totally different things. You can't say because QNX works well in their current space that it'll work well in a different space.

Most bank machines (at least in Canada) was run on IBM's OS/2... everyone used it... did that translate to anything on the desktop? No, of course not. Two different things.

You can hype QNX all you want, but there's very little reason for people to care. You want to attract them with BB10 - give them something you cant get elsewhere that they care about. Otherwise it's just another Smartphone that may multitask better and have better security - but most don't care about those advantages.

[James Nieves]

Two totally different things. You can't say because QNX works well in their current space that it'll work well in a different space.

Most bank machines (at least in Canada) was run on IBM's OS/2... everyone used it... did that translate to anything on the desktop? No, of course not. Two different things.

You can hype QNX all you want, but there's very little reason for people to care. You want to attract them with BB10 - give them something you cant get elsewhere that they care about. Otherwise it's just another Smartphone that may multitask better and have better security - but most don't care about those advantages.

Google and Motorola are two different things
You can hype Google all you want, but there's very little reason for people to care.
Google and iOS are falling into the same pits that Blackberry fell into with OS fragmentation etc. They see wild growth because at the time they took their systems to market the entire global smart phone was boomin. When Blackberry started the boom there were only so many smart phone users. And plans were ridiculously expensive, not to mention the iPhone was exclusive to ATT forcing Verizon to push MOTO and Droids to counteract. We neglect that the first Blackberry phone didnt even have a speaker or microphone. "Blackberrys" were NEVER really meant to play in the consumer space. Curves and Pearls getting popular pushed the company into a space it KNEW IT COULD NOT COMPETE BECAUSE IT HAD an "antiquated" system compared to the C/C++ systems developed/sold nearly 5 after BBOS for the consumer-space.

People cared about the advantages of Blackberries so much we rushed them somewhere we couldn't hope to have them compete. Angry birds simply won't run on BBOS Unless you make a java version. All the programmers in the world who code for Android and iOS can finally use their same language to write for BB10, and that truly will make all the difference. It will become a "Why not" when the tools are easy and viable. Like Apples xCode, QNX has Momentic with Cascades and QT built into the IDE as well, what's Google's IDE?

Apples hybrid kernal is still monolithic and BSD based, so really how far into the future can that really take us?
It's the core architecture of QNX that has my faith. And RIM whose been a valuable player in the cell space since it's inception really. I count no one out until the door is closed. You are all entitled to your lack of conviction

At the end of the day the people who show up to these forums, make an account and post in these threads already care There are still millions of people who've never heard of "Crackberry" and BILLIONS more who don't even have a smart phone. Their "faith" is in their pockets

[Blacklatino]

@James. I appreciate your passion for BlackBerries. It's very admirable. But, this quote:

So whether the consumer actually picks up a BB10 device is of little consequence to QNX or RIM, because they are aiming at something different.

If you truly believe, BB10 can be a success without a consumer base, then, I am concerned......because at this point, it's ALL about whether consumers will buy BB10s. Otherwise, the questions answered by Thorsten(in the interview) would have only been directed at corporate heads and not others.


and this gem:

There are still millions of people who've never heard of "Crackberry" and BILLIONS more who don't even have a smart phone. Their "faith" is in their pockets

So at what point are these ppl that have never heard of BlackBerry or smartphones going to march (while in a Zombie-like trance) into their local carrier and demand BlackBerries? But, you are correct, if the launch is not done correctly to attract the millions(and potentially billions), their faith will stay in their pocket.

[sleepngbear]

It's no worth talking about unless they can actually sell high volumes of BB10 devices for decent margins - that's the start middle and end of it.

At the moment talking about how RIM is going to build this amazing network of connected devices is like talking about how a man who has just had a stroke is going to run a marathon - it's pointless until we see how they recover from the stroke.

This ability to integrate devices that they're talking about is how they're planning on attracting more consumers. They're talking about taking it a step further than anyone else has. And as everyone is so fond of reminding us, they cannot be targeting where the competition is today. We all know all too well what happens when you promise things to be coming at a later date. Given RIM's past performance, they cannot do that again. The capabilities have to be there when the devices drop or the new customers they are trying to attract simply won't care. The strategies they're talking about are all part of the greater effort that is needed to bring the company back to health.

And your metaphor is a weak one. A stroke is a crippling affliction -- RIM is far from crippled, nor is it on life support. Sprained ankle, fractured tibia and a big black eye may be a fairer analogy. At this point, they need to be talking about how they can win the marathon, not just get to the starting line.

[James Nieves]

@James. I appreciate your passion for BlackBerries. It's very admirable. But, this quote:

If you truly believe, BB10 can be a success without a consumer base, then, I am concerned......because at this point, it's ALL about whether consumers will buy BB10s. Otherwise, the questions answered by Thorsten(in the interview) would have only been directed at corporate heads and not others.


and this gem:


So at what point are these ppl that have never heard of BlackBerry or smartphones going to march (while in a Zombie-like trance) into their local carrier and demand BlackBerries? But, you are correct, if the launch is not done correctly to attract the millions(and potentially billions), their faith will stay in their pocket.

To the first I'd say Blackberry needs to play to it's strengths first. And that's enterprise. The very loses we've been seeing the past few quarters are due to the consumers leaving Blackberry and those who are simply not buying Blackberrys. There's a difference there. Blackberry as a product failed to be compelling in the face of Apples iPhone. And yet if you look at the charts you see Apple and Blackberry BOTH grow at the same rates *albeit at different stock prices* It wasnt until the app store that Blackberry became "invalid" in the consumer mindshare. Googles introduction of Android Market was another nail to the mindshare it simply was splitting- and Blackberry as a product stopped being AS compelling.

But Blackberry luckily had some smart managers up top-however arrogant they may have been about their product they had the sense to push it all around the world by the time the iPhone was JUST releasing. And having the enterprise framework behind all that delivering BES and PUSH/NOC services etc. All over the world. If you read into Steve Jobs he wanted his own cellular network for iPhone, to make it super exclusive and control the entire experience. A feat that Blackberry had accomplished BY integrating with carriers all around the world, it was more of a who controls who play for Apple and carriers everywhere- because he knew how popular his product would be. Instead he chose to seek that same kind of exclusivity via ATT. And we know the story from there... Back to Blackberry and your question.

Stock holders have seen the massive potential the consumer market holds, and as stock holders they OF COURSE want Blackberry in there to make them money. Stockholders are also still holding on because they know there is "security" in Blackberries security. There money is safe as long as Governments and Fortune 500 deploy. I've posted this entire thread because the competition sees this as the final way to kick the legs out from under RIM and kill. Thats why my first post addresses Samsung and Motorola emulating Blackberry services for Enterprise users. HOWEVER I personally see that two ways. If a Samsung lisencsing deal goes down the integration of Blackberry and Samsung and hardware will be easier it's simply opening up Blackberry enterprise infrastructure but thats alll speculation . I personally see this as the competition just trying to compete with what Blackberry offers to enterprise. Now they have BYOD well here boss I brought a safe and fun phone, it's a samsung. And essentially come 2013 Blackberry will hopefully be offering the same thing with BB10 but opening the phone world to connect in new ways with new technologies. The cell companies, the carriers they all wanna get rice the OEMs everyone. Everyone is kinda pissed that Apple is dominating and not allowing for them to make nearly as much as they could. The "app" market/industry is bigger than the movie and music industries combined. And that industry is frustrating dominated by Apple (even movies and music as an extention via iTunes). Android is the only decent consumer competition and people have embraced it beyond Apple around the world, but only because these OEMs suffer to produce phones. Samsung is the only legitimate Android player against Apple. And outside of those two we have two new OSs Windows phone 8 and BB10 both are coming to wipe the floor with these younglings by going places they can't go. The car, the XBOX etc. And you see that is where I find what Microsoft is offering less superior to BB. They are "teasing" security details http://m.engadget.com/2012/06/20/win...rise-features/ But how does that compare to Mobile Fusion something thats been integrated and trusted for YEARSSS. We all know Microsoft security is less than wonderful-THEY will have to overcome that hurdle in enterprise as Blackberry will have to overcome its own hurdles into the consumer space. But XBOX is connected to a TV screen, so what? All of our phones/tablets can connect to TVs to do different things. To play games? I can do that already my playbooks the controller. Windows 8 and BB10 are BOTH going to be pushing mobile computing to "new" places. That's the future, the dynamic difference. Who saw a future and who actually brings it about. Steve Jobs saw a future... But what does Apple see now? @Least we know what Blackberry sees, a truly untethered yet completely connected life. From home to car and work and floating on the digital cloud inbetween. US agencies are no longer allowed to use Apple Products? Damn there go the iPads here come the Playbooks :3 And all because of environmental standards? Hope those RETINAs are worth it. Anyway. No one's marching into any store and demanding for a Blackberry. But trust that marketing will be done as cohesively as the BB10 launch has been performed. Diligently, with early tells of whats happening and whats coming. Listen to the CMO Frank B, he's a straight talker and that's what BB marketing needs someone who deliver a cohesive message via marketing. Again GLOBAL launch. And People still know what Blackberries are outside North America. They will want to see what the that flatscreen blackberry is all about. I like what I'm seeing over in NYC and I expect them to be using it to tailor what people like about the products to better display it on TV for later have faith Crackberry Nation !!

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

[njblackberry]

So corporations aren't abandoning the BlackBerry? That's a bit delusional as every company I work with has already cut back on their BB purchases. Some, like IBM, are mobing head first into iPhones. I think you are mistaken..

[berklon]

I think Jamez needs to take off the rose-coloured glasses.

Even in the enterprise, RIM is feeling the pain - and it will continue.

I gave an example the other day of my situation. Global firm with 130k users... now we've officially announced the adoption of BYOD to all our users. We've already experienced a big cancellation of BB orders. This new policy has made A LOT of people happy.

We're not the only firm that's moving towards BYOD. I know people at other firms who are doing the exact same thing due to cost-savings while putting a lot of smiles on users faces.

Just think, people either a) no longer have to carry their personal phone with their work BB or b) they get to move to a phone they actual desire instead of using a phone forced on them by their company.
BOYD makes everyone happy.

[hpjrt]

So corporations aren't abandoning the BlackBerry? That's a bit delusional as every company I work with has already cut back on their BB purchases. Some, like IBM, are mobing head first into iPhones. I think you are mistaken..

Perhaps "every company" you "work with" is unconcerned about security and data compression ... but that may change once their security is breached and their data costs soar. I wouldn't be too definitive personally.

[kbz1960]

I think Jamez needs to take off the rose-coloured glasses.

Even in the enterprise, RIM is feeling the pain - and it will continue.

I gave an example the other day of my situation. Global firm with 130k users... now we've officially announced the adoption of BYOD to all our users. We've already experienced a big cancellation of BB orders. This new policy has made A LOT of people happy.

We're not the only firm that's moving towards BYOD. I know people at other firms who are doing the exact same thing due to cost-savings while putting a lot of smiles on users faces.

Just think, people either a) no longer have to carry their personal phone with their work BB or b) they get to move to a phone they actual desire instead of using a phone forced on them by their company.
BOYD makes everyone happy.

If your company doesn't lock down devices why were you using bb in the first place? If any ol phone will do and anyone can do whatever they want with it why use a BES in the first place?

[Blacklatino]

To the first I'd say Blackberry needs to play to it's strengths first. And that's enterprise. The very loses we've been seeing the past few quarters are due to the consumers leaving Blackberry and those who are simply not buying Blackberrys. There's a difference there. Blackberry as a product failed to be compelling in the face of Apples iPhone. And yet if you look at the charts you see Apple and Blackberry BOTH grow at the same rates *albeit at different stock prices* It wasnt until the app store that Blackberry became "invalid" in the consumer mindshare. Googles introduction of Android Market was another nail to the mindshare it simply was splitting- and Blackberry as a product stopped being AS compelling.

But Blackberry luckily had some smart managers up top-however arrogant they may have been about their product they had the sense to push it all around the world by the time the iPhone was JUST releasing. And having the enterprise framework behind all that delivering BES and PUSH/NOC services etc. All over the world. If you read into Steve Jobs he wanted his own cellular network for iPhone, to make it super exclusive and control the entire experience. A feat that Blackberry had accomplished BY integrating with carriers all around the world, it was more of a who controls who play for Apple and carriers everywhere- because he knew how popular his product would be. Instead he chose to seek that same kind of exclusivity via ATT. And we know the story from there... Back to Blackberry and your question.

Stock holders have seen the massive potential the consumer market holds, and as stock holders they OF COURSE want Blackberry in there to make them money. Stockholders are also still holding on because they know there is "security" in Blackberries security. There money is safe as long as Governments and Fortune 500 deploy. I've posted this entire thread because the competition sees this as the final way to kick the legs out from under RIM and kill. Thats why my first post addresses Samsung and Motorola emulating Blackberry services for Enterprise users. HOWEVER I personally see that two ways. If a Samsung lisencsing deal goes down the integration of Blackberry and Samsung and hardware will be easier it's simply opening up Blackberry enterprise infrastructure but thats alll speculation . I personally see this as the competition just trying to compete with what Blackberry offers to enterprise. Now they have BYOD well here boss I brought a safe and fun phone, it's a samsung. And essentially come 2013 Blackberry will hopefully be offering the same thing with BB10 but opening the phone world to connect in new ways with new technologies. The cell companies, the carriers they all wanna get rice the OEMs everyone. Everyone is kinda pissed that Apple is dominating and not allowing for them to make nearly as much as they could. The "app" market/industry is bigger than the movie and music industries combined. And that industry is frustrating dominated by Apple (even movies and music as an extention via iTunes). Android is the only decent consumer competition and people have embraced it beyond Apple around the world, but only because these OEMs suffer to produce phones. Samsung is the only legitimate Android player against Apple. And outside of those two we have two new OSs Windows phone 8 and BB10 both are coming to wipe the floor with these younglings by going places they can't go. The car, the XBOX etc. And you see that is where I find what Microsoft is offering less superior to BB. They are "teasing" security details MS teases Windows Phone 8 enterprise features: Company Hub, encryption, secure boot, IT management - Engadget But how does that compare to Mobile Fusion something thats been integrated and trusted for YEARSSS. We all know Microsoft security is less than wonderful-THEY will have to overcome that hurdle in enterprise as Blackberry will have to overcome its own hurdles into the consumer space. But XBOX is connected to a TV screen, so what? All of our phones/tablets can connect to TVs to do different things. To play games? I can do that already my playbooks the controller. Windows 8 and BB10 are BOTH going to be pushing mobile computing to "new" places. That's the future, the dynamic difference. Who saw a future and who actually brings it about. Steve Jobs saw a future... But what does Apple see now? @Least we know what Blackberry sees, a truly untethered yet completely connected life. From home to car and work and floating on the digital cloud inbetween. US agencies are no longer allowed to use Apple Products? Damn there go the iPads here come the Playbooks :3 And all because of environmental standards? Hope those RETINAs are worth it. Anyway. No one's marching into any store and demanding for a Blackberry. But trust that marketing will be done as cohesively as the BB10 launch has been performed. Diligently, with early tells of whats happening and whats coming. Listen to the CMO Frank B, he's a straight talker and that's what BB marketing needs someone who deliver a cohesive message via marketing. Again GLOBAL launch. And People still know what Blackberries are outside North America. They will want to see what the that flatscreen blackberry is all about. I like what I'm seeing over in NYC and I expect them to be using it to tailor what people like about the products to better display it on TV for later have faith Crackberry Nation !!

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

Wow! Where to start. For the sake of time and after reading your response-twice, I'll let it stand as is. But, I will say this, for ppl like you and with your type of mindset(based on your post) as it relates to what is really going on, I hope that RIM doesn't eff this up. I don't agree with the majority of it. But, it doesn't matter, I do like your spirit.

[njblackberry]

Perhaps "every company" you "work with" is unconcerned about security and data compression ... but that may change once their security is breached and their data costs soar. I wouldn't be too definitive personally.

Since the PlayBook (as one TERRIBLE example) uses ActiveSync (in addition to the every popular bridging) to get e-mail, the security angle is gone. Are BB10 devices going to use ActiveSync? BES? "Mobile Fusion"? If they use ActiveSync, can you explain how the vaunted security comes into play? Oh, we have an MDM for our ActiveSync users. In fact, we have more than one.

Most large corporations have deals on their data plans. No one cares as the costs have NOT soared.

[cynicalreader]

Perhaps "every company" you "work with" is unconcerned about security and data compression ... but that may change once their security is breached and their data costs soar. I wouldn't be too definitive personally.

Very strange statement since that is not what was said. The reference was simply to companies cutting back on BBs. You assume that a company that does not use BBs is unconcerned about their security? As far as I know when companies switch they also put into place products from any of dozens of companies that specialize is managing and securing non-BB devices.

Absolutely fair to compare what BBs offer versus these other solutions. Just plain silly to assume that there is NO security.

[cynicalreader]

90% of Fortune 500 and 77 Million means the talk is NOT hot air, it's for those coustomers that they are building BB10.

In one of the other threads the question of what the worldwide installed base of smartphones is now. The number is about 1 billion. I would seriously hope that RIM is targeting BB10 to the one billion and not the 77M you mention above. Unless they are all in the Porsche Design price range with appropriate margins, RIM might have a serious revenue issue unless it is willing to become a boutique player.

[playpen007]

As long as you have the best UI very easy to use and more useful applications than your competitor, the money will follow. I don't believe too little too late! Best phone and best marketing, money will follow. Time will tell... load up their shares while it is cheap...

[CHIP72]

Perhaps "every company" you "work with" is unconcerned about security and data compression ... but that may change once their security is breached and their data costs soar. I wouldn't be too definitive personally.

For what it's worth, I currently work for a cabinet level department in the U.S. federal government (though hopefully not for much longer), and my agency has opened up BYOD over the last two years. They are actually discontinuing support for Android at the end of the year but will continue to support iOS devices. They've also purchased a number of iPads (how many I don't know). Finally, and at least to me, somewhat ironically, Blackberry is NOT eligible as a BYOD; only government-issued Blackberry devices are allowed on the network for e-mail.

[cynicalreader]

But how does that compare to Mobile Fusion something thats been integrated and trusted for YEARSSS.

Not quite sure what point you are trying to make here. I looked up Mobile Fusion and I see it came from the acquisition of the German company Unitexx last year. Ubitexx was in the MYOD business, but for Windows, Symbian, IOS and Android, but not for BB and worked with Activesync, which explains why you need Mobile Fusion AND BES to support pre BB10 devices. My understanding is that Mobile Fusion is being reworked to support BB10 natively. So I am not quite getting the "integrated and trusted for YEARSSS" statement, especially as it pertains to security. I am getting this stuff from my reading of RIM and Ubitexx press releases so please correct as necessary.