[coffee-turtle]

We all understand that in BES environment our IT Depts. monitor and control content on their deployed Blackberry devices. It's a necessity (some may choose to disagree on the last point).

However, when you buy your personal Blackberry you pretty much assume you can use it and customize it any way you want.

Yet your carrier providing BIS access still maintains a measure of control on your device. We have seen a range of restrictions, such as not being able to use your phone on another carrier's network (common to most mobile phones), unable to delete apps permanently that come with your device, the pushing of apps/services that you may not want, etc.

It is on this last point where the carrier pushes apps/services that you may not want.

Recently, it was reported that VZW forced BING to be the default and only search tool incorporated into the Browser. This hasn't been the case with me, but it was mentioned on different boards. In my case, I have a new BING icon/app on my Home screen.

A couple of days ago my Blackberry just asked me to Reboot NOW or LATER because some change was made to the system. I thought to myself, what change did I make to the system to require a reboot? That is when the BING icon/app appeared. Sadly, my Tour for whatever reason also went crazy and white screened with an Application Error Reset message. What gives?

I spent some time trying to repair and subsequently reload the OS.

Have you wondered what your carrier is doing behind the scenes?
Do you have any stories you can share? Any similar experiences?
Is your carrier the real owner of your device while you are just a user "renting" their equipment?

Thanks. Hope to hear from you.

[Motorcycle Mama]

You own the device. You don't own the software.

[orangeagent]

@Motorcycle Mama: That's a good point, that's the way the carriers, etc. look at it, but dang, we sure do pay a good amount of money for us still not to have FULL control over the devices.

[JRSCCivic98]

Unfortuntately because of the inherent design of the BB platform and the infrastructure, no BB will ever be free from RIM/Carrier manipulation. The only thing you can do is get another smartphone that doesn't have such inherent control or at least one that has a bit less. iPhones and Android devices are starting to becomes control havens to some extent as well. (Apple can wipe unauthorized apps from your phone and Google controls all of your data and sync abilities.) The last front that's still open to personal control is the WinMo market and even that (with the intro of WinMo7) will lose some of it. The good thing with these other devices that isn't true with Blackberries is that you can Jailbreak or Root them so that you gain a bit more "self-control" over them. This is why those platforms are more popular with elite crowds rather then the BB platform. I think BB will get there some day, but even so, people need to realize that a BB is nothing more then a "shell". It doesn't do anything but make calls without the services backend of RIM. In a way, it's not really a smartphone, it's more of a mobile dumb terminal then anything, since it depends upon a backend server based network rather then just a network stack to function as a data device. (All other smartphones on the market have onboard functions, whereas a BB does everything through some sort of proxy based infrastructure at RIM's NOC.)

[coffee-turtle]

@Motorcycle Mama: are you paying just for the device? could you buy the device without software?
besides, the carrier doesn't "own" the software either. the OS is by RIM.

[coffee-turtle]

...In a way, it's not really a smartphone, it's more of a mobile dumb terminal then anything...

That a really good point JRSCCivic98. I never viewed it that way, but there is a lot of truth in what you wrote above.

I remember the days when you could buy a handheld device and didn't need a carrier, because it was truly just a mobile computer (such as the non-Treo line of Palm and pre-PRE).

I still got on the network with my builtin wifi or bluetooth to a phone, etc. But I could use it independently of any contracts and agreements to give my first born.

[orangeagent]

In my findings at least, Nokia and Symbian OS seems to be the only smartphones out there that really don't force control over your device...I know Symbian covers more devices, but most of them are made by Nokia, unfortunately, in terms of apps, there just isn't the selection you have with BlackBerry and iPhone, so usability is hindered a bit. I own both a Nokia 5800 and BlackBerry 8900. I love my Nokia 5800, but love my BlackBerry 8900 more just because of the great push email service and all the apps available.

[jbeachy]

You buy the device but just a license to use the software - no ownership there.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[JRSCCivic98]

That a really good point JRSCCivic98. I never viewed it that way, but there is a lot of truth in what you wrote above.

I remember the days when you could buy a handheld device and didn't need a carrier, because it was truly just a mobile computer (such as the non-Treo line of Palm and pre-PRE).

I still got on the network with my builtin wifi or bluetooth to a phone, etc. But I could use it independently of any contracts and agreements to give my first born.

Exactly... I needed to test something the other day with a WinMo device and all I had to do was get it on a WIFI network. There was no service activated on it through the carrier at all. I couldn't even dial out, but all I needed to test was something in relation to data, and I was able to do that with it just connected to a WIFI network that had an Internet gateway on it. THAT is the "true" definition of a smartphone... a smartphone should be able to do EVERYTHING onboard by itself in terms of processing and not depend upon a server network backend to function. I wish more people would understand this about Blackberries and why I feel they are inferior in design ethics.

[Motorcycle Mama]

@Motorcycle Mama: are you paying just for the device? could you buy the device without software?
besides, the carrier doesn't "own" the software either. the OS is by RIM.

I didn't say that the carrier owned the software. Please go back and re-read what I posted.

I said that YOU don't own the software.

[se1000]

NA carriers have often done things to restric certain features of branded devices in the past, not just blackberries. I admit that they have more access to make changes to a BB device after purchase.

[coffee-turtle]

I didn't say that the carrier owned the software. Please go back and re-read what I posted.

I said that YOU don't own the software.

I know. I am the one who said the carrier doesn't own it either. I figured you were saying that we, the consumer doesn't own it. As jbeachy said, we lease a license to the software.

Sorry for the confusion.

[coffee-turtle]

Exactly... I needed to test something the other day with a WinMo device and all I had to do was get it on a WIFI network. There was no service activated on it through the carrier at all. I couldn't even dial out, but all I needed to test was something in relation to data, and I was able to do that with it just connected to a WIFI network that had an Internet gateway on it. THAT is the "true" definition of a smartphone... a smartphone should be able to do EVERYTHING onboard by itself in terms of processing and not depend upon a server network backend to function. I wish more people would understand this about Blackberries and why I feel they are inferior in design ethics.

It would be nice to even see handheld devices again that are just portable computers. Of course, with the NetBook market, there may no longer be a niche for them anymore.

The business SoMo handheld computers are awesome! But a bit pricey!

Handheld Computers

[coffee-turtle]

Exactly... I needed to test something the other day with a WinMo device and all I had to do was get it on a WIFI network. There was no service activated on it through the carrier at all. I couldn't even dial out, but all I needed to test was something in relation to data, and I was able to do that with it just connected to a WIFI network that had an Internet gateway on it. THAT is the "true" definition of a smartphone... a smartphone should be able to do EVERYTHING onboard by itself in terms of processing and not depend upon a server network backend to function. I wish more people would understand this about Blackberries and why I feel they are inferior in design ethics.

The 12/17 and 12/22 outages at RIM demonstrates your point.

My browser has been working most of this evening (in addition to BBM).

[ThePoisonBerry]

We all understand that in BES environment our IT Depts. monitor and control content on their deployed Blackberry devices. It's a necessity (some may choose to disagree on the last point).

However, when you buy your personal Blackberry you pretty much assume you can use it and customize it any way you want.

Yet your carrier providing BIS access still maintains a measure of control on your device. We have seen a range of restrictions, such as not being able to use your phone on another carrier's network (common to most mobile phones), unable to delete apps permanently that come with your device, the pushing of apps/services that you may not want, etc.

It is on this last point where the carrier pushes apps/services that you may not want.

Recently, it was reported that VZW forced BING to be the default and only search tool incorporated into the Browser. This hasn't been the case with me, but it was mentioned on different boards. In my case, I have a new BING icon/app on my Home screen.

A couple of days ago my Blackberry just asked me to Reboot NOW or LATER because some change was made to the system. I thought to myself, what change did I make to the system to require a reboot? That is when the BING icon/app appeared. Sadly, my Tour for whatever reason also went crazy and white screened with an Application Error Reset message. What gives?

I spent some time trying to repair and subsequently reload the OS.

Have you wondered what your carrier is doing behind the scenes?
Do you have any stories you can share? Any similar experiences?
Is your carrier the real owner of your device while you are just a user "renting" their equipment?

Thanks. Hope to hear from you.

So ironic that the person to post this is a Verizon user. You really SHOULD consider what your Verizon is doing behind your back....

[JRSCCivic98]

The 12/17 and 12/22 outages at RIM demonstrates your point.

My browser has been working most of this evening (in addition to BBM).

This weakness in design will be the eventual death of Blackberry if they can't change the core topology of the design. All it would take is an extremely extended period of downtime... something in the amount of a few days to a week or two and that's the end of RIM and the Blackberry. When government sectors can't function wirelessly because of such outages, that's when all he77 breaks loose.

[Da Pope]

right now R.I.M. means to me "ret@rts in motion" because i just cant take these bis blackout's anymore. they are just killing the movement faster by these blackout's

[cenloe]

This weakness in design will be the eventual death of Blackberry if they can't change the core topology of the design. All it would take is an extremely extended period of downtime... something in the amount of a few days to a week or two and that's the end of RIM and the Blackberry. When government sectors can't function wirelessly because of such outages, that's when all he77 breaks loose.

This current outage is already ticking off a whole hoard of users, will this be the straw that breaks the camels back?

Kinda odd that I can currently use Opera on my Blackberry. Obviously there is a work around to RIMs servers when it comes to data on a BB, no?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[CanuckBB]

This weakness in design will be the eventual death of Blackberry if they can't change the core topology of the design. All it would take is an extremely extended period of downtime... something in the amount of a few days to a week or two and that's the end of RIM and the Blackberry. When government sectors can't function wirelessly because of such outages, that's when all he77 breaks loose.

BES users were not affected.

[John Yester]

BES users were not affected.

Some were.......

[moses11685]

If you have a forced homepage, go to advanced options, service books, find and delete BLACKBERRY HELP(browser config) and then return to your browser and go to options and set a new homepage. The only thing is if you have problems later or setup another email, service books are sent to you, you would have to delete the book again.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[coffee-turtle]

This current outage is already ticking off a whole hoard of users, will this be the straw that breaks the camels back?

Kinda odd that I can currently use Opera on my Blackberry. Obviously there is a work around to RIMs servers when it comes to data on a BB, no?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

BOLT was another alternative during the outage. I guess these browsers have their own proxy servers.