08-07-09 11:50 AM
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  1. trebb's Avatar
    I think this is a wonderful article. It was posted on BGR, and it sums up what a lot of us have been saying in arguments over this forum.

    What happened to Research In Motion and where are they going? : Boy Genius Report
    06-30-09 03:52 PM
  2. greydarrah's Avatar
    That's an interesting article. For years RIM has been a technology leader in it's field. Now others are catching up. My guess is that RIM will surge forward once again. It's tough being the target.
    06-30-09 04:01 PM
  3. dragonsamus's Avatar
    That was a really thought provoking read. I will definitely do plenty of research on my next phone when I upgrade and it may not be a blackberry.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-30-09 04:06 PM
  4. Venc's Avatar
    I found this article in BGR an found it interesting. Hope you find it interesting too!

    I want to start this off by saying I have nothing but love for RIM the company. Probably my favorite tech corporation in the world, theyve created an incredibly unique product that practically replaces the need for drugs for most people. Whats even more fascinating, however, is how RIM (to the pleasant surprise of a lot of us early users) has managed to take a corporate-focused product and service and blow down doors in the consumer world. From the BlackBerry 7100, the first consumer-oriented device, to the eye-catching BlackBerry Tour (its business through and through, yet it will be an incredibly popular consumer phone on Verizon and Sprint), its clear that RIM has done everything right to this day.

    So, whats the problem youre asking? They have probably the best back-end infrastructure for mobile communication on the planet, awesome phones that can go head-to-head with high-end smartphones, consumer marketing, a huge consumer fanbase, and practically every businessman (or woman) has one on their hip. One word is where RIM fails so miserably it isnt even imaginable: software.

    You have to look at the big picture here for what RIM is working with (an incredibly miserable Java OS with so much security and encryption and smoke-blowing APIs) theyve hit the jackpot. Their OS architecture is fantastic, their use of security is what makes them so trustworthy. But, as each handset release comes closer and closer, people start to see the bigger picture. And thats the fact that RIMs OS is more than antiquated, its borderline laughable. But it works, youre thinking, so whats wrong? Ive been saying this for years, but it wasnt designed to do anything the BlackBerry does now. Imagine scotch taping car parts to a 200hp engine and see how far that gets you. Obviously, its just a viciously rough metaphor, but we believe a correct one.

    Theres so many limitations to RIMs OS, and even RIMs data network that it offsets all the wonderful things theyve managed to accomplish. Remember when people were so excited over leaked shots of OS 4.6 and I said somewhere it was just a theme? Well, was I wrong? Oh, look! OS 5.0! What changed? 99% nothing. Some functionality is added here and there, but the mobile phone landscape has changed so drastically in the last two years, that RIM, admittedly known to planning three years out looks to be unable to see the proper direction to head.

    You can throw $1,000,000,000 at developers but you wont get any if your OS, tools, and documentation are so bad, and thats really in the end a lot of what Im getting at. I was laying in bed at around 3AM early one morning recently, looking through the iPhone App Store and I came across EAs Tiger Woods Golf. $4.99, why not? Wait, its 150MB? Wow, it must be good. I clicked purchase and literally 4 minutes later, Tiger Woods was installed and up on my screen. Granted I was on a high-speed Wi-Fi connection, but it made me realize more than ever that RIM has the most uphill battle of their lifetimes. When a BlackBerry application over 500k is considered large, somethings wrong. When TweetGenius is one of the first BlackBerry applications to do fun, unique things like transparent overlays, consistent shortcuts, and a straight forward UI, something is wrong.

    The reason why this is so frustrating to me and Im guessing many is because RIM literally almost has it all. Theyve got it! They are 90% there but that last 10% has become the most important. If you take Apple for example, and see their shortcomings, and then what theyve done to fix them, its remarkable. Its a completely different DNA than RIMs but its working. In two years Apple has practically matched Research In Motion in almost every consumer area while having the most advanced mobile operating system with the most advanced mobile SDK on the planet. If Apple can do this in just two years and RIM has stood still, no one thinks thats a problem?

    The reason RIM works is because its the entire package, if you will. Hardware, software, infrastructure, corporate integration, security, etc. People want simplicity, ease of use, but more than ever they want more than they need. Stupider people are smarter and expect more, smarter people are stupider and expect more. RIM delivers the same tired package in new hardware and people are starting to catch on. App World? Seriously? From every single developer Ive spoke to, its a non-starter. It basically doesnt exist to them in terms of a sales channel its practically like 1% if that.

    What consumers dont do is look forward. They look at whats put in front of them. Its the exact opposite for the manufacturer and thus why its so difficult. Look back two or three years and the Bold and Storm might seem incredibly innovative, consumer-focused, and sure to be hot sellers. And they were and are, but look ahead three years and tell me point blank you have confidence that RIM knows how to steer this ship. I dont, and thats being incredibly honest. Its not me being negative, its objectively looking at the landscape and evaluating things. I want RIM to succeed, I want RIM to make kick *** products. Im just frustrated that RIM is going through hardware like its nobodys business yet fails to deliver on the things that everyone wants. Screw business people, screw consumers, everyone wants a WebKit-based browser. Its inexcusable RIM doesnt get it. Its inexcusable that people put up with a 2003 operating system with so many limitations and restrictions it would make Ahmadinejad jealous. I dont think RIM is going anywhere, they as a company are incredibly successful, but once they start to lose the consumer market which they worked so hard to get, its a downward shift.

    Heres a list of RIMs models followed by Apples in the last 3 years:

    RIM: 8110, 8120, 8130, 8800, 8820, 8830, 8300, 8310, 8320, 8330, 8220, 8230, 8900, 9000, 9500, 9530, 9630.

    Apple: iPhone, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS.

    Theres a good and bad part with knowing things in advance. For instance, people might hold off on purchasing a new BlackBerry if they know a newer and better one is being released in a couple months, and this hurts a companys current product cycle. On the other hand, if someone on Verizon sees a Tour being released two months from now, they might rethink jumping ship or switching to a different device on Verizon. And the cycle continues. Looking at RIMs upcoming products for the next 6-12 months is simply a rehash of current limitations and shortcoming in smaller and sexier packages. The BlackBerry 9020? Its a Bold in a smaller, sexier package. Nothing else is different. The BlackBerry Storm 2? Its the same device with maybe improved screen tech. The BlackBerry Magnum? As hot as a hybrid touch screen/QWERTY device would be, its still a BlackBerry that cant pull up a webpage to save its life or play a real game or have any sort of desktop-class application running.

    These things wont change, the core OS hasnt changed, and RIM has had no reason to change it. Why mess with success, right? Well, if you happen to be Research In Motion, you might have to start changing things up or newer and better operating systems like the iPhone, webOS, and Android are going to eat their lunch and their applications, too.

    Im fortunate enough to be able to have every phone I want on every carrier and that gives a person an incredible amount of clarity when picking the superior products. I use an iPhone 3GS and a BlackBerry Bold everyday, both on AT&T. But to tell you the truth, in the past when people ask me what device would I choose if I had to only pick one, it would hurt my brain. There was just no way to choose. But unfortunately or fortunately, that decision has become clearer and clearer. I dont think Ill ever give up my BlackBerry, Im pretty sure youll always find one on my hip in an OEM RIM leather holster, (yes, holsters are cool as ****) but when me of all people starts truly questioning how a company as successful and brilliant as RIM is going to keep up with the next 2-3 years, youve got a big, big issue.

    Ill close by saying that the market is still wide open and this doesnt mean RIM is or ever will go anywhere. Its just something to keep an eye on and see how the best to ever do it will react to competitors advances, innovations, and of course, their software.

    BGR
    06-30-09 04:21 PM
  5. H_D's Avatar
    Interesting read from BoyGenius....

    http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/...re-they-going/


    I LOVE my BB but I have to agree with the fact that they need to be more innovative.....especially with all the OS's that have been & are going to be released.
    06-30-09 04:25 PM
  6. Venc's Avatar
    Interesting read from BoyGenius....

    http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/...re-they-going/


    I LOVE my BB but I have to agree with the fact that they need to be more innovative.....especially with all the OS's that have been & are going to be released.
    I just posted this a couple of minutes ago

    http://forums.crackberry.com/showthr...84#post2925784
    06-30-09 04:26 PM
  7. St13fL3r's Avatar
    06-30-09 04:26 PM
  8. tpapa5520's Avatar
    I do agree that RIM seems to be going nowhere. An article I read last week said they were not pursuing anything related to netbooks (netbooks seem to me like its a race between laptops and smartphones in opposite directions). I have yet to own a BlackBerry device, and do not know if they have really developed anything solid to help the business world in the past couple of years, but I do know that the person in this article really either needs to be more descriptive or just stop. I could barely stop myself from posting halfway through reading the article, anticipating BGR would clarify what I am about to explain (and believe to be true).

    *I will be using the word "consumer" the way I interpreted BGR using it - people buying the phone for personal use (not for business)*

    The BlackBerry was obviously meant for corporate/business users to begin with, and although it has begun to be marketed to a bigger spectrum of consumers (corporate + personal), its number one priority will be to the reason for its success, corporate/business users. Yes it is true they are missing that 10% but would you try to grab that 10% and risk the 90% that has got you where you are? Even if consumers manage to smarten up and realize that the Android, iPhone, and WebOS phones are better for what they want, BlackBerry will continue to thrive on the corporate/business users.

    I have not heard of nor read any articles comparing any of the Android, iPhone, or WebOS phones to a BlackBerry when it comes to using it for anything that would envolve what BlackBerry's are made for primarily (sorry for this wording i don't want to keep using the words business,corporate etc. lol).

    He also fails to mention that although BlackBerry makes many different adaptations of the same phone, they are not always for the same phone company/network. BlackBerry respects peoples choice of CDMA or HSPA (from what I have read, CDMA is better for voice, HSPA better for data; so you may need a blackberry for voice more than data and vice-versa) and that could be at the very least a reason for all these updates. Now when 4G comes around, it will be interesting since everything will be universal.


    Anyone else, if not for what I said above, think BGR is wrong?
    06-30-09 04:33 PM
  9. cdf3's Avatar
    I think RIM may run into problems in the future if business/corporate users begin to want more than just push email.
    06-30-09 05:21 PM
  10. ThreeSixMafia's Avatar
    well, guys you do realize that deciding to change your core OS is a BIG move, and if not thought out properly can really cause destruction to their corporation. I think RIM is definately figuring out what they have to do. They dont have to make the blackberry super flashy like the IPhone, but the fact that they just reassembled their user interface team, Im sure we will be looking forward to new changes. Notice the article didnt talk about what RIM has been doing about this. Its gonna take them a lil while to get the OS where it needs to be, but they are going to do it, and once they do, the phone is going to be undefeatable.
    06-30-09 05:48 PM
  11. Reed McLay's Avatar
    I presume you will not mind, merging the two threads will help keep the discusison on topic.

    I have edited the topic to reflect the original content. Normaly, the author would be credited, but that is not the case with BGR.
    06-30-09 05:48 PM
  12. codemaker's Avatar
    well, guys you do realize that deciding to change your core OS is a BIG move, and if not thought out properly can really cause destruction to their corporation. I think RIM is definately figuring out what they have to do. They dont have to make the blackberry super flashy like the IPhone, but the fact that they just reassembled their user interface team, Im sure we will be looking forward to new changes. Notice the article didnt talk about what RIM has been doing about this. Its gonna take them a lil while to get the OS where it needs to be, but they are going to do it, and once they do, the phone is going to be undefeatable.
    Man, oh man do I hope you are right.
    06-30-09 06:11 PM
  13. Venc's Avatar
    I presume you will not mind, merging the two threads will help keep the discusison on topic.

    I have edited the topic to reflect the original content. Normaly, the author would be credited, but that is not the case with BGR.
    I thought my thread was erased. I was so confused for a minute lol as the title was also changed

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-30-09 06:30 PM
  14. cenloe's Avatar
    I read this on BGR and think he hit it right on the head. RIM is falling behind and they need to pick up their game and soon. My last three devices have been BB's but if their next ones continue to sport the oh so 6 years ago OS, Im out.
    06-30-09 06:51 PM
  15. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    I can't believe it, but for once BGR is basically playing my tune. RIM needs to step it up... I've been saying it.
    06-30-09 06:51 PM
  16. cenloe's Avatar
    I can't believe it, but for once BGR is basically playing my tune. RIM needs to step it up... I've been saying it.
    We've all been saying it. I really hope they do step it up because I like RIM and I like having a non WINMO qwerty.
    06-30-09 06:55 PM
  17. Reed McLay's Avatar
    We've all been saying it. ...
    Currently, there are about 30 million BlackBerry subscribers.

    Clearly, we are not all saying it. The overwelming majority of BlackBerry users are getting full value from their investment. Continued refinement of the OS is in the works.
    06-30-09 06:59 PM
  18. Syco54645's Avatar
    I am getting my first berry which will be the tour, but I seen berries over the years and they are not changing anything os wise. 5.0 was a majour chance for them to do a majour rewrite but they passed that up. Maybe at 5.1, or dare I say, 6.0?
    06-30-09 07:17 PM
  19. jrv2's Avatar
    I'm a new user, < 3months, but serioulsy addicted (of course!)..
    and while I agree with aLL these points from a technical point of view, as Reed said, 'Clearly, we are not all saying it.' this is a product that WORKS.
    with a fairly enviable uptime, minus a couple high profile outages, and a rock solid infrastructure.
    This is why it wont fail. infrastructure.
    I am not an apple fan, Ill say it loud and proud, and while the iphone is great at games and music (and fanboys), it is not designed to be a productivity tool (yet)..
    So while we have an older (but solid) os, and a minimal app store, we do have reliable e-mail, and a very solid base tool.
    It seems to me the ones that always want more, also want more from everything, its fairly often, quantity or bling over quality.
    I'll take quality, and my BB..
    just my .02c
    cheers
    jrv
    06-30-09 07:31 PM
  20. trebb's Avatar
    Psht. I posted this thread first and they all got merged but mine.

    I've said it before, and I've said it again. I cannot stand when people say, "If it isn't broken, don't fix it." That is the worst attitude to have in the technology industry. How is anything innovative going to get done if everyone thinks like that?

    Just because the iPhone can do games and entertainment better than any other phone doesn't mean it's solely a "toy." It's not. There are plenty of extremely useful business applications available. Yeah, iPhones are recently catching up with features that they should have had in the first place, but the same thing can be said for Blackberries.

    Android, the iPhone and webOS have all taken big leaps with their respective operating systems. RIM is taking little steps. Yes, it works (you know, despite the constant memory leaks, shortage of app memory, crappy apps, and awful browser). Yeah, the push e-mail is wonderful. That's not enough. RIM already owns a huge share of the smartphone market, and if they play their cards right, can own even more.
    06-30-09 07:46 PM
  21. boomhower1820's Avatar
    It is a bit concerning that the OS is turning into Windows Mobile. Outdated and stale. If it wasn't for the fact HTC and other companies completely skinned the thing and made it actually usable the carriers would likely be hard pressed to sell a WM based phone. If RIM continues on the path they are on they may end up with the same fate. Sure they will always have the business sector. But they have worked alful hard to get into the consumer sector with the Pearl, Storm, etc. to let it go now. At least it is going to be brand new to me!
    06-30-09 07:58 PM
  22. Reed McLay's Avatar
    If I missed your post, it may have been in a sub-forum. I will happy to merge it here on your request.

    IMHO, Mike Lazaridis started from scratch. He was in the right place at the right time. What emerged was the core of the BlackBerry OS and the infrastructure to support it.

    Since then, it has been under continuous refinement and upgrading.

    Steve Jobs ordered his engineers to spend some iPod/iTunes cash and get into the game. What they created was spec'ed to blow out the smartphone market, of the time.

    For Apple, it's a matter of adding a phone to the best selling toy in the World.

    For BlackBerry, it's more attention drawn to the smartphone world, which they continue to own.
    06-30-09 08:04 PM
  23. trebb's Avatar
    It wasn't in a sub-forum. It's in this forum.

    Edit: Thank you very much.
    Last edited by trebb; 06-30-09 at 08:13 PM.
    06-30-09 08:07 PM
  24. Syco54645's Avatar
    If I missed your post, it may have been in a sub-forum. I will happy to merge it here on your request.

    IMHO, Mike Lazaridis started from scratch. He was in the right place at the right time. What emerged was the core of the BlackBerry OS and the infrastructure to support it.

    Since then, it has been under continuous refinement and upgrading.

    Steve Jobs ordered his engineers to spend some iPod/iTunes cash and get into the game. What they created was spec'ed to blow out the smartphone market, of the time.

    For Apple, it's a matter of adding a phone to the best selling toy in the World.

    For BlackBerry, it's more attention drawn to the smartphone world, which they continue to own.
    well I really hope that they do some more innovative things in 5.0. Maybe they have and we just have not seen a leaked os that had everything in it. god I hope that is it...
    06-30-09 09:02 PM
  25. cdf3's Avatar
    The OS seems pretty solid. You can always change the look with the many themes that are out. The browser is one area that's really lagging, and HTML Email can use an upgrade as well. Those are the two areas that need the most work. If they can fix the streaming YouTube issue (small size) with the Curve, life would be grand.
    06-30-09 09:27 PM
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