02-17-14 12:25 PM
77 1234
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  1. CyberMan2013's Avatar
    Actually, I'm not so sure about that. This software measures response rate from the server side. So for legacy BB they could be measuring the response from the BIS infrastructure back to the service, not the actual end to end performance. That would explain why the numbers are so completely different from everything else. They could essentially be measuring just that first hop back to BIS, which I would expect to be very fast.

    I'm trying to understand where they see "5.0" in the user agent. They can't be so stupid as to look at "Mozilla/5.0", right? Where else do you see 5.0 in the request from a BB10 browser?


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    So hard to believe eh? You can check YouTube. Look at the web standards compliance of the browser. When you switch it to desktop mode it's detected as a desktop browser, possibly chrome so it's definitely detected properly. Even with having to load "slow" flash and java and since it's more compliant and compatible that means it'll be loading more stuff per page as the others might be ignoring certain content it's faster than the competition. It's so good that even using the Z10, it can more than keep up against the likes of phones with much more powerful hardware like the Samsung Galaxy S4 and blows any Nokia Lumia's doors off. I'm not showing off but I don't mind keeping 45 tabs open in my Z10's browser...because I can. It doesn't slow me down. I can switch back to whatever articles or sites that I was reading with no fuss whatsoever. Doesn't really affect the responsiveness of other Apps either.


    BGR gives a positive on BB10?-img_20140209_202726.png

    Posted via CB10
    Mr.Monty and arvind1983 like this.
    02-09-14 06:29 PM
  2. spikesolie's Avatar
    So hard to believe eh? You can check YouTube. Look at the web standards compliance of the browser. When you switch it to desktop mode it's detected as a desktop browser, possibly chrome so it's definitely detected properly. Even with having to load "slow" flash and java and since it's more compliant and compatible that means it'll be loading more stuff per page as the others might be ignoring certain content it's faster than the competition. It's so good that even using the Z10, it can more than keep up against the likes of phones with much more powerful hardware like the Samsung Galaxy S4 and blows any Nokia Lumia's doors off. I'm not showing off but I don't mind keeping 45 tabs open in my Z10's browser...because I can. It doesn't slow me down. I can switch back to whatever articles or sites that I was reading with no fuss whatsoever. Doesn't really affect the responsiveness of other Apps either.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Posted via CB10
    And that's a z10(: the supposedly inferior hardware

    Posted via CB10
    02-09-14 06:40 PM
  3. app_Developer's Avatar
    So hard to believe eh? You can check YouTube. Look at the web standards compliance of the browser. When you switch it to desktop mode it's detected as a desktop browser, possibly chrome so it's definitely detected properly.
    HTML5 compliance and performance are of course totally different issues. In fact, compliance and performance often compete.

    As for detection, I still wonder where the "5.0" came from exactly? How do you explain that?

    If you pick up a BB10 phone and then an iPhone and a current model from HTC or Samsung on the same network, you don't see the BB10 phone loading pages three times as fast as the other devices. At least I've not seen that, so the results of this study are odd, and worth understanding in better detail.

    It's also important to point out that BGR didn't do this study. This headline is *their* interpretation of someone else's infographic summary of their own study. We don't immediately trust that BGR knows what they're talking about all the time, do we?


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    RubberChicken76 likes this.
    02-09-14 06:45 PM
  4. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    HTML5 compliance and performance are of course totally different issues. In fact, compliance and performance often compete.

    As for detection, I still wonder where the "5.0" came from exactly? How do you explain that?

    If you pick up a BB10 phone and then an iPhone and a current model from HTC or Samsung, you don't see the BB10 phone loading pages three time as fast as the other devices. At least I've not seen that, so the results of this study are odd, and worth understanding in better detail.

    It's also important to point out that BGR didn't do this study. This headline is *their* interpretation of someone else's infographic summary of their own study. We don't immediately trust that BGR knows what they're talking about all the time, do we?


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    Unless their source is CrackBerry... then yes. Lol

    Posted via CB10
    02-09-14 06:47 PM
  5. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    Aside from the "5.0" (could just be a misunderstanding of BlackBerry version numbering), here are a few links to the "Real User Monitoring" tool they used to get the data.

    Real user monitoring - New Relic Documentation
    How does New Relic collect the real user data?

    Similar to Google Analytics, a small JavaScript snippet is placed in the browser. This allows New Relic to start measuring key metrics from the moment an end-user transaction or request is initiated, to the final loading of the resulting webpage. The snippets activate a ping-back to New Relic servers after pages finish loading.
    How does real user monitoring work? - New Relic Documentation

    RUM collects timing measurements in one of two ways, depending on the capabilities of the end user's browser.

    For newer browsers, such as Chrome, IE9 and Firefox 10+, RUM leverages the Navigation Timing Specification. This is a JavaScript API that provides timing details about each page load.
    For browsers that do not implement the Navigation Timing Specification, RUM relies on a cookie and the RUM JavaScript header and footer to collect timing information.
    02-09-14 06:58 PM
  6. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    Whether or not many won't accept it fact is. BlackBerry 10 's browser is the BEST on the market, all talk I'm seeing here in this commentary about HTC iPhone etc is just talk, Apple has secretly released flash option in their browser and it still can't compete, I know I use three different platforms and BlackBerry is far superior!

    Posted via CB10
    02-09-14 07:31 PM
  7. ray689's Avatar
    Whether or not many won't accept it fact is. BlackBerry 10 's browser is the BEST on the market, all talk I'm seeing here in this commentary about HTC iPhone etc is just talk, Apple has secretly released flash option in their browser and it still can't compete, I know I use three different platforms and BlackBerry is far superior!

    Posted via CB10
    Since when did they release flash? My ipad is still useless and the least productive device I have ever owned.

    Posted via CB10
    02-09-14 07:44 PM
  8. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    Since when did they release flash? My ipad is still useless and the least productive device I have ever owned.

    Posted via CB10
    I agree with you.the following can be verified by Ars technica,

    Apple has also posted a new support document addressing the issue and explaining to users how to update Flash Player when they discover that the plug-in has been blocked.



    Posted via CB10
    02-09-14 07:56 PM
  9. app_Developer's Avatar
    So how does this work when a user is coming through BIS?


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    02-09-14 08:00 PM
  10. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    I agree with you.the following can be verified by Ars technica, they claim the issue was that flash was susceptible to attacks, which supposedly was repaired through a patch version 11.5.502.149

    Apple has also posted a new support document addressing the issue and explaining to users how to update Flash Player when they discover that the plug-in has been blocked.



    Posted via CB10


    Posted via CB10
    02-09-14 08:00 PM
  11. app_Developer's Avatar
    I agree with you.the following can be verified by Ars technica,

    Apple has also posted a new support document addressing the issue and explaining to users how to update Flash Player when they discover that the plug-in has been blocked.



    Posted via CB10
    Can you post a link to this?


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    02-09-14 08:06 PM
  12. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    Can you post a link to this?


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    http://www.virtualchrome.com/Flash-P...one-ipod-touch

    Posted via CB10
    02-09-14 08:11 PM
  13. app_Developer's Avatar
    Ok, I'm confused. You had said earlier that Apple had released Flash for "their browser". Did you mean Safari for the Mac?

    This link you posted now is about using a VNC type of solution to run a browser in the cloud. That's not from Apple, and it doesn't actually add Flash support to Safari for iOS.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    mikeo007 likes this.
    02-09-14 08:14 PM
  14. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    Ok, I'm confused. You had said earlier that Apple had released Flash for "their browser". Did you mean Safari for the Mac?

    This link you posted now is about using a VNC type of solution to run a browser in the cloud.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    That's correct I posted the update of Adobe for Apple and the patch.

    Posted via CB10
    02-09-14 08:17 PM
  15. app_Developer's Avatar
    That's correct I posted the update of Adobe for Apple and the patch.

    Posted via CB10
    Ok, so just so we're clear, you were talking about an update to the Flash player on the Mac?


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    02-09-14 08:20 PM
  16. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    So how does this work when a user is coming through BIS?


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    Isn't server-side recompression/optimization the same way (in principle) that opera mini work? (or at least back in the day)

    And according to the results... opera mini did pretty badly, so I can't see similar BIS model fooling their metric.

    Posted via CB10
    02-09-14 08:21 PM
  17. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    Ok, so just so we're clear, you were talking about an update to the Flash player on the Mac?


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    Correct.


    Posted via CB10
    app_Developer likes this.
    02-09-14 08:24 PM
  18. app_Developer's Avatar
    Isn't server-side recompression/optimization the same way (in principle) that opera mini work? (or at least back in the day)
    Key words there are "in principle" and "back in the day".


    And according to the results... opera mini did pretty badly, so I can't see similar BIS model fooling their metric.

    Posted via CB10
    I can totally see how their fallback mechanism would be fooled by this, can't you? Imagine the BIS server loading the whole page before all of it has been even transmitted to the client. That's how it *should* work, right? And so how could that *not* fool this type of measurement? The fallback measurement doesn't actually measure rendering (they said this themselves in their explanation)

    Do you *really* believe that the BB10 browser renders pages three times as fast as the other WebKit based browsers?

    You either believe that it does, or you have to think something is wrong with BGR's interpretation of the study.

    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    02-09-14 08:28 PM
  19. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    Key words there are "in principle" and "back in the day".



    I can totally see how their fallback mechanism would be fooled by this, can't you? Imagine the BIS server loading the whole page before all of it has been even transmitted to the client. That's how it *should* work, right? And so how could that *not* fool this type of measurement? The fallback measurement doesn't actually measure rendering (they said themselves in their explanation)

    Do you really believe that the BB10 browser renders pages three times as fast as the other WebKit based browsers?


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    Well yes I get what you're saying, bug my deduction of the 'robustness ' of their method was based only on the fact that opera mini (which does something similar--server side repackaging) did not fool them at all (it sucked).

    Posted via CB10
    02-09-14 08:36 PM
  20. app_Developer's Avatar
    Well yes I get what you're saying, bug my deduction of the 'robustness ' of their method was based only on the fact that opera mini (which does something similar--server side repackaging) did not fool them at all (it sucked).

    Posted via CB10
    Maybe opera doesn't actually cause them to go to their fallback measurement? They have two different ways of measuring time to completion (which is another issue).

    Again, I still think the bigger issue is what they actually mean by "5.0".


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    02-09-14 08:41 PM
  21. mikeo007's Avatar
    Maybe opera doesn't actually cause them to go to their fallback measurement? They have two different ways of measuring.

    Again, I still think the bigger issue is what they actually mean by "5.0".


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    That plus the fact that a simple test with a Q10 and a 4 year old laptop shows me that the Bb10 browser (not surprisingly) doesn't come close to a desktop browser in terms of loading speed.
    02-09-14 08:43 PM
  22. app_Developer's Avatar
    That plus the fact that a simple test with a Q10 and a 4 year old laptop shows me that the Bb10 browser (not surprisingly) doesn't come close to a desktop browser in terms of loading speed.
    Nor should it be expected to. If it did, I'd say the desktop browser teams should just quit! They have so much more to work with.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    02-09-14 08:50 PM
  23. mikeo007's Avatar
    Nor should it be expected to. If it did, I'd say the desktop browser teams should just quit! They have so much more to work with.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    Exactly. It's great for a mobile browser, but not even in the same class as desktop browsers. I mean, raw CPU power alone would put he desktops at a huge advantage.
    02-09-14 08:54 PM
  24. CyberMan2013's Avatar
    HTML5 compliance and performance are of course totally different issues. In fact, compliance and performance often compete.

    As for detection, I still wonder where the "5.0" came from exactly? How do you explain that?

    If you pick up a BB10 phone and then an iPhone and a current model from HTC or Samsung on the same network, you don't see the BB10 phone loading pages three times as fast as the other devices. At least I've not seen that, so the results of this study are odd, and worth understanding in better detail.

    It's also important to point out that BGR didn't do this study. This headline is *their* interpretation of someone else's infographic summary of their own study. We don't immediately trust that BGR knows what they're talking about all the time, do we?


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    You said compliance and performance often compete. I was saying that despite all of the compliance advantages and extra overhead the performance is still superior to the competition. My Z10 doesn't feel inferior at all to using a desktop browser on a core i5-2500K at 4.1GHz with 8GB RAM and an SSD using the same 10Mbps internet connection. It's very comparable to a typical desktop experience. You can be comfortable substituting your Z10 for a laptop using a bluetooth keyboard and mouse and an HDMI cable hooked up to a TV or monitor.

    Posted via CB10
    02-09-14 09:34 PM
  25. dracolnyte's Avatar
    After reading this article, i went ahead and tested my Z10 against my gf's G2. my Z10 got demolished every time against her G2 using Chrome, even when trying to load crackberry.com. I made sure nothing could have affected the competition by giving my phone a fresh restart, and testing the LTE speed with speedtest; got 31mbps. Tried both wifi and LTE, and even turning flash off I still couldnt win. she was on wifi the whole time and she has horrible wifi at home. dont get me wrong, my Z10 still feels snappy against lets say an iphone5, but hers was on another league, more like instanteous
    Last edited by dracolnyte; 02-09-14 at 11:40 PM.
    02-09-14 11:28 PM
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