[avt123]

But does the speed test take under consideration the data compression? No, so you can't have an accurate speed test.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

You are completely missing the point yet again. The data compression slows down the speed. While the BB was sitting there during the test compressing the data, the iPhone was finished with the real speed.

[belfastdispatcher]

You are completely missing the point yet again. The data compression slows down the speed. While the BB was sitting there during the test compressing the data, the iPhone was finished with the real speed.

I'm not disputing that, my pint is this, let's say the test is done downloading 10mb of data, the iphone downloads that data faster but the blackberry 10mb once de-compressed it can be worth 20mb for browsing, 40mb for email, so the test thinks it downloaded 10mb but in reality it downloaded more, so how can you perform an accurate test?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[belfastdispatcher]

How many excuses do you want to make bro? VZWs network is slower than AT&Ts and still pulled faster data speeds.

Also, if you actually read what I said, you would know I tested my 9000, 9700, iPhone 3G and 3GS all using AT&Ts network. If you knew anything about the iPhone in the US you would know it those models are only available on AT&T. I thought it was pretty obvios before when I was comparing EDGE and 3G speeds on AT&Ts network...

Simultaneous voice and data doesn't matter at all when comparing data speeds. Key word here is DATA. GSM 3G which handles simultaneous voice and data has much faster data speeds than the CDMA network.

Voice does not affect the data. It is made this way so you can use both without harming the use of one or the other. Data speeds do not drop if you are using voice. And not once during the tests was the device using both data and voice, it was run while the device was just pulling data.

Bro, you're the one making excuses, I posted my experience with 2 different iphones on 2G, one on O2 one on Vodafone uk, the reality on the grownd here is this, blackberry is much faster on 2G. You saw the facebook post.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[belfastdispatcher]

"Voice does not affect the data. It is made this way so you can use both without harming the use of one or the other. Data speeds do not drop if you are using voice. And not once during the tests was the device using both data and voice, it was run while the device was just pulling data."

Cdma data stops completely if a call would come trough, the test would come to a halt, gsm would take the call and continue the test.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Economist101]

Simultaneous voice and data doesn't matter at all when comparing data speeds. Key word here is DATA. GSM 3G which handles simultaneous voice and data has much faster data speeds than the CDMA network.

Exactly. In terms of 3G, AT&T blows Verizon away in data speed, even though AT&T is the network that allows simultaneous voice and data.

Cdma data stops completely if a call would come trough, the test would come to a halt, gsm would take the call and continue the test.

Yes, and any comparison that was interrupted by a call wouldn't prove anything, which is why the only comparisons ever shown are those not interrupted by calls.

[belfastdispatcher]

Exactly. In terms of 3G, AT&T blows Verizon away in data speed, even though AT&T is the network that allows simultaneous voice and data.




Yes, and any comparison that was interrupted by a call wouldn't prove anything, which is why the only comparisons ever shown are those not interrupted by calls.

But doesn't that mean a gsm device will always have resources allocated to allow both to happen? Also can a cdma allow multiple downloads of does it have a limit?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Economist101]

But doesn't that mean a gsm device will always have resources allocated to allow both to happen? Also can a cdma allow multiple downloads of does it have a limit?

I don't have that information. I just know that 3G data speeds on AT&T are well ahead of Verizon's, so even if there is some technical advantage to a data connection that is persistent in lieu of alternating, that advantage doesn't make up for the huge speed gap. At the same time, AT&T's network is relatively poor, so while you may be able to surf faster you'll also have more weak spots and dead zones.

[avt123]

I'm not disputing that, my pint is this, let's say the test is done downloading 10mb of data, the iphone downloads that data faster but the blackberry 10mb once de-compressed it can be worth 20mb for browsing, 40mb for email, so the test thinks it downloaded 10mb but in reality it downloaded more, so how can you perform an accurate test?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Why would the BB do that? If the test is to download 10MB of data, you download 10MB of data. Why would the BB download more than 10MB if the test is to just download 10MB? You logic is flawed. The BB just downloads the 10mb and compresses it. Sow hile the iPhone does the download, it gets the real number. The BB does the download and gives you the compressed number.

Compressing saves data, it doesn't add it.

I think you mean the BB can just make better use of the 10MB. But if you compress 10MB, then decompress it again, you still have 10MB. Your extra 20mb for browsing and 40mb from email make no sense. You don't download 10MB and receive an extra free 60mb out of the blue.

[avt123]

Bro, you're the one making excuses, I posted my experience with 2 different iphones on 2G, one on O2 one on Vodafone uk, the reality on the grownd here is this, blackberry is much faster on 2G. You saw the facebook post.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Heh, we all know facebook means it's official right?

I am not making excuses. You cell network is absolute ****.

On EDGE, the iPhone is faster than a BB.

I am not talking about OS 7 devices which are suppose to browse faster than the iPhone 4 due to newer and improved hardware. I am talking about the 3G, 3GS, 9000 and 9700. The devices I tested. With those tests, the BB never worked faster on 2G. Never ever.

[avt123]

"Voice does not affect the data. It is made this way so you can use both without harming the use of one or the other. Data speeds do not drop if you are using voice. And not once during the tests was the device using both data and voice, it was run while the device was just pulling data."

Cdma data stops completely if a call would come trough, the test would come to a halt, gsm would take the call and continue the test.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

What is your point? I honestly don't understand.

Are you trying to explain to me what I already know?

You quoted me on GSM 3G. I was saying that even if you are on a phone call, data speeds are not slowed down.

You said

You are comparing 2 completely different networks, one allows you to have simultaneous calls and data, the other doesn't. My experience was in the same room on the same network.

My point was that data is data. The fact that one network can do both voice and data at the same time while the other can't means absolutely nothing in a data speed test.

[avt123]

But doesn't that mean a gsm device will always have resources allocated to allow both to happen? Also can a cdma allow multiple downloads of does it have a limit?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Voice doesn't slow down data speeds. Once again.

What resource are you talking about? The hardware takes care of this.

CDMA can have multiple downloads. I use to download 5-10 files at a time on my Android devices. Same goes for the iPhone. I can download several apps at the same time, it doesn't matter.

[belfastdispatcher]

Man you just love to argue, forever jumping to defend the iphone, tell you what, why don't you prove it for a change? I already had to make vidos to prove my 9700 could load mobile crackberry.com in 5 seconds on very very slow gprs, your turn next.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[avt123]

Man you just love to argue, forever jumping to defend the iphone, tell you what, why don't you prove it for a change? I already had to make vidos to prove my 9700 could load mobile crackberry.com in 5 seconds on very very slow gprs, your turn next.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Dude I am not defending anything. I am explaining MY experience.

You are the one arguing with me and you have never even owned an iPhone. I have used BBs and iPhones for over 3 years each. I am the one with detailed and actually experience of both platforms. You are the one in ever single on of your responses throwing out a "but this" and "but that".

I am not defending. If you actually read what I said, I said the only reason the BB does have slower data speeds is because of the compression. That is not defending the iPhone. That is me realizing and knowing why the iPhone is faster. That is basically defending the BB! Yet you sit here and say I am defending the iPhone? ROFL.

Dude I am done with you and your conversations that always go in circles. If I wanted to run in circles, I'd pretend I'm a cat and I'd play with my tail. This conversation with you is ridiculous.

You go ahead and make your youtube videos, that means NOTHING to me. You are loading MOBILE CrackBerry. Is that some type of ******* joke?

You don't do tests with mobile sites. That is ******* stupid. My Android devices, iPhones and BBs all loaded the damn site within 5 seconds no matter the connection. It is a MOBILE site. It is meant to be loaded fast with ****ty hardware and slow connection. I don't need to make a youtube video to prove this. Any modern day smartphone can do this.

I am done with you. Have a nice day. I'm not wasting my time anymore.

[belfastdispatcher]

Dude I am not defending anything. I am explaining MY experience.

You are the one arguing with me and you have never even owned an iPhone. I have used BBs and iPhones for over 3 years each. I am the one with detailed and actually experience of both platforms. You are the one in ever single on of your responses throwing out a "but this" and "but that".

I am not defending. If you actually read what I said, I said the only reason the BB does have slower data speeds is because of the compression. That is not defending the iPhone. That is me realizing and knowing why the iPhone is faster. That is basically defending the BB! Yet you sit here and say I am defending the iPhone? ROFL.

Dude I am done with you and your conversations that always go in circles. If I wanted to run in circles, I'd pretend I'm a cat and I'd play with my tail. This conversation with you is ridiculous.

You go ahead and make your youtube videos, that means NOTHING to me. You are loading MOBILE CrackBerry. Is that some type of ******* joke?

You don't do tests with mobile sites. That is ******* stupid. My Android devices, iPhones and BBs all loaded the damn site within 5 seconds no matter the connection. It is a MOBILE site. It is meant to be loaded fast with ****ty hardware and slow connection. I don't need to make a youtube video to prove this. Any modern day smartphone can do this.

I am done with you. Have a nice day. I'm not wasting my time anymore.

Whatever man, you're all talk but never any proof, put your phone on 2G and show me how fast it can load m.crackberry.com

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[avt123]

Whatever man, you're all talk but never any proof, put your phone on 2G and show me how fast it can load m.crackberry.com

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I am not going to argue with ignorance. If you knew any better, you would know CDMA is 3G. There is no 2G on the VZW iPhone. There is no turning off 3G. If I turn off 3G I turn off data completely.

What proof do you want dude? Go to youtube, I'm sure there are plenty of speed tests there for you to see. The proof you are looking for from me is impossible to show on my device.

If you knew anything about the CDMA iPhone, you wouldn't have even said "2G", yet you have no clue.

Take this to PMs.

[belfastdispatcher]

Have a read:

iPhone 4 - Data network problems? - Vodafone eForum


"Hi there,

I've been on vodafone for many years and recently upgraded to the iPhone 4. Previously I'd been using an original iPhone (2G) with a vodafone pay monthly contract, and had found that the EDGE data connection was always good and reliable (as fast as you'd expect with a 2G phone).

Transferring to the iPhone 4 my data connection is now quite rubbish. My 3G signal at home and at work (both central London) is poor - I get 1 bar max in postcode SE1, and maybe 1-2 bars at home NW3. Looking at the coverage map I should be in good 3G areas so I don't understand why I'm not getting a good reception - I'm using a case on the iPhone so the "grip of death" is not an issue for me.

Anyhow, I can accept that maybe 3G reception is a bit shaky, but what is worse is that when I disable 3G and just use the EDGE connection I am constantly getting simple websites time out and messages like "cellular data network not found" despite having 4-5 bars of EDGE reception. What's going on here? My 3-year old iPhone 2G never had these problems.

My "mobile data network" settings are as follows, and I understand these should work for both 3G and EDGE connection:

APN: wap.vodafone.co.uk
u/n: wap
p/w: wap"

Clearly iphone problem.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[avt123]

Have a read:

iPhone 4 - Data network problems? - Vodafone eForum


"Hi there,

I've been on vodafone for many years and recently upgraded to the iPhone 4. Previously I'd been using an original iPhone (2G) with a vodafone pay monthly contract, and had found that the EDGE data connection was always good and reliable (as fast as you'd expect with a 2G phone).

Transferring to the iPhone 4 my data connection is now quite rubbish. My 3G signal at home and at work (both central London) is poor - I get 1 bar max in postcode SE1, and maybe 1-2 bars at home NW3. Looking at the coverage map I should be in good 3G areas so I don't understand why I'm not getting a good reception - I'm using a case on the iPhone so the "grip of death" is not an issue for me.

Anyhow, I can accept that maybe 3G reception is a bit shaky, but what is worse is that when I disable 3G and just use the EDGE connection I am constantly getting simple websites time out and messages like "cellular data network not found" despite having 4-5 bars of EDGE reception. What's going on here? My 3-year old iPhone 2G never had these problems.

My "mobile data network" settings are as follows, and I understand these should work for both 3G and EDGE connection:

APN: wap.vodafone.co.uk
u/n: wap
p/w: wap"

Clearly iphone problem.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

On AT&T I never had any problems on EDGE or 3G. I dropped a lot of calls because AT&T is pretty bad (IMO), but I also dropped a ton of calls on my 9000 and 9700. My data connection was always solid though. Same goes for VZW except my voice service is 100x better with the VZW iPhone than an AT&T iPhone. Data is great as well, but about 1.5-3Mbps slower.

What's hilarious is that you take one person and their one problem and make it sound like every person with an iPhone is having this problem. "Clearly an iPhone problem". No, what's clear is that that USER is having a problem with THEIR iPhone.

Take it to the PMs man. We are the only two talking about this. I doubt anyone else really gives a crap.

[iN8ter]

No, completely wrong, a blackberry might be slower on 3G compared to other smartphones but but them side by side on 2G and a blackberry will fly, an iphone is completely useless on GPRS, needs at least edge speeds and even on that it's slow.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

EDGE is 2G.

GPRS is 1G and almost anything is useless on that Blackberry or not.

iPhones are totally usable on 2G. Lots of people took their iPhones from AT&T to T-Mobile where they never get 3G and use them just fine.

I can browse and everything on Android/WP7 on EDGE without any issues. Streaming Video is the only issue there... Although if you let it buffer you can stream Low Quality YouTube somewhat fine on a good EDGE connection.

[belfastdispatcher]

EDGE is 2G.

GPRS is 1G and almost anything is useless on that Blackberry or not.

iPhones are totally usable on 2G. Lots of people took their iPhones from AT&T to T-Mobile where they never get 3G and use them just fine.

I can browse and everything on Android/WP7 on EDGE without any issues. Streaming Video is the only issue there... Although if you let it buffer you can stream Low Quality YouTube somewhat fine on a good EDGE connection.

Actually:

"2.5G (GPRS)
2.5G ("second and a half generation"[citation needed]) is used to describe 2G-systems that have implemented a packet-switched domain in addition to the circuit-switched domain. It does not necessarily provide faster services because bundling of timeslots is used for circuit-switched data services (HSCSD) as well.

The first major step in the evolution of GSM networks to 3G occurred with the introduction of General Packet Radio Service (GPRS). CDMA2000 networks similarly evolved through the introduction of 1xRTT. The combination of these capabilities came to be known as 2.5G.

GPRS could provide data rates from 56 kbit/s up to 115 kbit/s. It can be used for services such as Wireless Application Protocol (WAP) access, Multimedia Messaging Service (MMS), and for Internet communication services such as email and World Wide Web access. GPRS data transfer is typically charged per megabyte of traffic transferred, while data communication via traditional circuit switching is billed per minute of connection time, independent of whether the user actually is utilizing the capacity or is in an idle state.

1xRTT supports bi-directional (up and downlink) peak data rates up to 153.6 kbit/s, delivering an average user data throughput of 80-100 kbit/s in commercial networks.[3] It can also be used for WAP, SMS & MMS services, as well as Internet access.

2.75G (EDGE)
GPRS1 networks evolved to EDGE networks with the introduction of 8PSK encoding. Enhanced Data rates for GSM Evolution (EDGE), Enhanced GPRS (EGPRS), or IMT Single Carrier (IMT-SC) is a backward-compatible digital mobile phone technology that allows improved data transmission rates, as an extension on top of standard GSM. EDGE was deployed on GSM networks beginning in 2003�initially by Cingular (now AT&T) in the United States.

EDGE is standardized by 3GPP as part of the GSM family and it is an upgrade that provides a potential three-fold increase in capacity of GSM/GPRS networks. The specification achieves higher data-rates (up to 236.8 kbit/s) by switching to more sophisticated methods of coding (8PSK), within existing GSM timeslots."

[iN8ter]

You're playing semantics really I don't care what Wikipedia says.

Layman's terms:

1G = GPRS
2G = EDGE
3G = HSDPA/HSUPA
4G = HSPA+/LTE/WiMax

That's how the common person sees it, and with the speed differences it's easy to see WHY.

They don't care about Wikipedia, and please try to hang out there less.

I don't care about CDMA. Why would I use a phone that cuts my downloads/surfing when I get a call? Terrible user experience, plus the CDMA networks have slower data speeds than GSM.

The reason why they allowed the carriers to call LTE/HSPA+/WiMax 4G is precicely because the consumer doesn't care about the semantics and they certainly don't think of these things in terms of fractions.

You made me laugh, though. Good job.

[iN8ter]

Also want to add, I only get GPRS here where I live, except if I was with AT&T (they put a new tower up earlier this year, but I switched to TM before then) and I've tried 2 blackberries. They're as useless as any other phone with that slow connection. I tried a Bold 9780 and a Curve 9300.

[belfastdispatcher]

I still disagree, I've been around two different people with iphones in a 2G area and both had problems connecting to internet, one on O2 the other on Vodafone, my own network.

Facts is blackberry push email is just as fast on gprs as on 3G, same goes for bbm, yahoo/gtalk messengers, facebook chat etc, I've set up my work email on a 7230 that doesn't even have edge and emails come in 7 seconds, just as my 9700 or 9900 on 3g or wifi.

You can argue all you want but the fact is a BB will always work better on slower internet connection.

I've watched a mate get an ebay email and then wait 2 minutes for the email to open after clicking on it on signal fluctuating between gprs and edge

[Rickroller]

I still disagree, I've been around two different people with iphones in a 2G area and both had problems connecting to internet, one on O2 the other on Vodafone, my own network.

Facts is blackberry push email is just as fast on gprs as on 3G, same goes for bbm, yahoo/gtalk messengers, facebook chat etc, I've set up my work email on a 7230 that doesn't even have edge and emails come in 7 seconds, just as my 9700 or 9900 on 3g or wifi.

You can argue all you want but the fact is a BB will always work better on slower internet connection.

I've watched a mate get an ebay email and then wait 2 minutes for the email to open after clicking on it on signal fluctuating between gprs and edge

[Economist101]

You can argue all you want but the fact is a BB will always work better on slower internet connection.

Reason number 1,783 not to move or travel to places with slow internet connections.

[belfastdispatcher]

Reason number 1,783 not to move or travel to places with slow internet connections.

Some countries don't have a choice, UK and Ireland are not blessed with flat terrain, while beautiful I imagine it's not the best for mobile signal. Add to this increasing difficulties to get planning permissions for cell towers(cell towers best spots are on the highest hills but guess what else you find on the highest hills, stone age burials, my wife's a planning office archaeologist, or development control as they call it) and people are also getting more weary of having them near their houses. Part of this reason is why Orange UK hasn't been able to improve the signal at my house in 7-8 years.

I imagine this is also why UK has no LTE and no plans to introduce it anytime soon.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com