05-18-16 06:00 AM
102 1234 ...
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  1. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    The PIN does have an advantage... I have literally a couple thousand contacts. I'd much prefer giving them a pin when it's needed for them, versus my phone number or email address (like whatsapp and snapchat use) as an identifier. While Whatsapp and Snapchat have methods in place to block followers, the flaw is that they have either your phone number or other contact information which can be used to further communicate with you even if you choose not to see anything from them within those services. Block somebody on whatsapp? They have your phone number to send you SMS.

    A PIN or any form of service specific identifier is much better than using a generic identifier that can be accessed via other services.

    Out of my couple thousand contacts, less than 1% can email/SMS/call me directly. Simply because I choose not to give them that ability. And I'd like to keep it that way. Which is the number one reason I don't use Whatsapp. Because my phone # isn't my identifier.
    Thank you.

    Still, for the majority of unconcerned users, they should have the option of opt-in to phone number matching. Would certainly help adoption and proliferation.

    Just don't stuff it up, BBRY! :-D


      There's a Crack in the Berry right now...  
    05-03-16 12:53 AM
  2. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar

    And that's the point: messaging, much like social networking, is one of those services where "network effect" really, really matters. If you don't have the users, you'd better offer something that MOST people will find important if you hope to grow. BBM offers additional privacy, but it does so at the expense of usability, and that has resulted in negative network effects (people left in droves, and the userbase [monthly active users] is still shrinking). Whereas WhatsApp made network discovery seamless, and while that chafes those who are sticklers for privacy, the average user LOVES IT because it makes WhatsApp both easy and instantly valuable to them, by having a big list of users who they already know automatically populate. BBM wins the privacy battle, but lost the user war - and WhatsApp, now that it is the defacto standard, is starting to increase security and privacy, further eroding BBM's advantages.
    I think what you describe is correct, but you make it sound like WhatsApp is better in making security "consumer friendly".
    That's not the case.
    WhatsApp did nothing for privacy and security until now.
    Now, *after* they have collected data on their user's networks, WhatsApp has finally implemented solid encryption.
    I still wonder whether BBM requests access to the contacts apps on Android and iOS, respectively has the capability to upload contacts to BBRY servers.
    If the answer would be "yes", then BBM should be equally convenient, but assuming it is "no", then you would be right.

    The contact app on BB10 offers a cloud feature to find more contact details for existing entries, which is off by default.
    Of course I have never used it, but perhaps it will have a value for many.

    Still nobody knows how WA are making money...without significant subscription fees or ads?
    I rather pay my subscription fee for BBM Protected, the business model is more transparent to me.

    BBMs advantages are rather the good integration of Glympse, video calling (soon to be cross-platform), screen sharing (only in BB10 for now) and more options to retract, edit, cite single messages etc etc... in total BBM has simply more reasonable features and the better, modern GUI.
    David Tyler and sorinv like this.
    05-03-16 07:16 AM
  3. dejanh's Avatar
    I would like to see some statistics to support the premise of this thread. I genuinely mean it. I am curious how BBM is trending overall.
    05-03-16 09:00 AM
  4. jhimmel's Avatar
    I don't have many BBM contacts. My wife and I use it though. We set up a Group, and make heavy use of the shared Calendar and shared Lists that BBM Groups have. We love those features. Does Whatsapp (or other messaging services) offer anything like that?
    05-03-16 09:08 AM
  5. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I would like to see some statistics to support the premise of this thread. I genuinely mean it. I am curious how BBM is trending overall.
    Maybe along with being more open on hardware sales, Chen will give us some details on BBM. Becuase they are really the only one that knows.
    05-03-16 09:11 AM
  6. hellomoto921's Avatar
    All i can say is that I don't remember or know peoples phone numbers either. Do people even memorize phone numbers anymore?
    DrBoomBotz likes this.
    05-03-16 09:18 AM
  7. Oiche-Shamhna's Avatar
    I think that they need to do what Facebook did. Add sms&mms to it and make it the default messenger. I have been testing the Facebook messenger as my SMS client and it works quiet well allowing the standard messenger posts with stickers and all. If you sent to someone who has messenger they get it through that. If you send to someone that just has sms they get it but you can't send stickers just emoji but all works well behind the scene. I would rather have them do that and i would drop messenger and just use BBM for all of the stuff.
    05-03-16 03:09 PM
  8. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I think that they need to do what Facebook did. Add sms&mms to it and make it the default messenger. I have been testing the Facebook messenger as my SMS client and it works quiet well allowing the standard messenger posts with stickers and all. If you sent to someone who has messenger they get it through that. If you send to someone that just has sms they get it but you can't send stickers just emoji but all works well behind the scene. I would rather have them do that and i would drop messenger and just use BBM for all of the stuff.
    Agree... my wife doesn't even know she is using a messenger on her iPhone.

    But what they really need is to seamlessly integrate BBM and a Messenger into HUB... and just make it one communications app.

    Drop Channels and it's bloated carcass.
    anon(6038817) likes this.
    05-03-16 03:20 PM
  9. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    All i can say is that I don't remember or know peoples phone numbers either. Do people even memorize phone numbers anymore?
    A few... my own, my wife's, 1300DOMINOS... that's about it!

    ;-D

    (maybe I could recall a few more, but hey, it's rather convenient, ain't it!)

      There's a Crack in the Berry right now...  
    05-03-16 04:08 PM
  10. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I think what you describe is correct, but you make it sound like WhatsApp is better in making security "consumer friendly".
    That's not the case.
    WhatsApp did nothing for privacy and security until now.
    That's more-or-less true, but IT DOESN'T MATTER. WA has gained over 1 billion monthly active users! The vast majority aren't especially concerned about privacy and security - they want convenience. That's the point.

    BB was selling hot chocolate in July (or January, for those in the southern hemisphere), and no matter how good their hot chocolate was, no one wants it during the heat of the summer. If you were a restaurant who only offered hot coffee and hot chocolate in the summer months, your place would probably be empty and you'd lose money, and everyone would tell you that you were stupid not to serve cold drinks. Likewise, BB chose to be in an increasingly consumer-focused industry but made enterprise-focused decisions - even as enterprise itself became more consumer-focused - and, to no one's surprise, has failed. No one cared about the quality of BB's hot chocolate because what they wanted was ice water, ice tea, and frozen margaritas. Apple and Google were lined up handing out ice-cold drinks and were selling everything they could make, and BB sat watching the show while their hot chocolate curdled.

    I get that folks here are exceptions to the rule, and DO care about privacy and security, a lot, but there simply aren't enough people who think like you to keep a company afloat in the ultra-competitive, expensive-to-play-in smartphone business - especially since none of you can agree on what KIND of private, secure device you want, or what you'd be willing to pay for it. BB is trying to serve 50 tiny niches that have a few common threads but lots of differences, and no wonder their product offerings are so schizophrenic.

    Again, the point is that security and privacy are not draws for the vast, vast majority of the market. It's like expecting people to buy your car over the competition's car because of the weight of the motor oil it uses - most people just don't care.
    05-03-16 08:45 PM
  11. dicks-webos's Avatar
    WhatsApp, etc are all now offering encryption. The main issue of BBM was and is "virality". It is a geeky, techy type app with many small buttons and texts. This does not appeal, does not make it easy to use.

    The messenger train has long moved far away.
    05-04-16 03:37 AM
  12. fschmeck's Avatar
    Not through word of mouth... through effective marketing campaigns.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339
    Word of mouth does work though, but it requires momentum. You need to use what your contacts use.

    Recently I took a look at a family member's phone: WhatsApp, BBM, and Viber all installed, each with maybe 3 contacts. I asked why they didn't ask their contacts to just use BBM, and the response was always the same : "They don't have BlackBerries".

    BlackBerry can't seem to get the message out.


    Posted via CB10
    05-04-16 07:12 AM
  13. Angelicajohnson88's Avatar
    As a former iphone loyalist, I am still learning how to adapt to this platform, and use BBM to its max potential. Help me understand what it's used for, other than texting.

    Posted via CB10
    05-04-16 07:42 AM
  14. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    As a former iphone loyalist, I am still learning how to adapt to this platform, and use BBM to its max potential. Help me understand what it's used for, other than texting.

    Posted via CB10
    Basically that's what BBM is for... it's an IM type client. It allows you to text other BBM users without using TEXTING features from your Carrier. (not a big deal if you have unlimited texting).

    Now BBM was also suppose to be a full fledge Social Media apps, there is a Channels section where you can connect with and follow other users or companies that have created a Channel. (again depends on your market and interests... it's dying a slow death)
    05-04-16 07:51 AM
  15. jhimmel's Avatar
    As a former iphone loyalist, I am still learning how to adapt to this platform, and use BBM to its max potential. Help me understand what it's used for, other than texting.

    Posted via CB10
    For me, it's beneficial when I am in areas of poor Cell signal, but on WiFi. Especially for sharing media (although I don't like the way it handles videos). Also, if you set up a Group, you have shared Calendar and Lists. Add something to the Calendar and it shows on all group members Calendar. Add something to a list, or check something off, and it updates across the group. My wife and I use this a lot.
    05-04-16 07:59 AM
  16. KNEBB's Avatar
    On so many levels, I've noticed BlackBerry (how should I say) give the Milk Away for Free.
    By that I mean; having a viable idea and letting the fruit rot on the vine by not continually cultivating it to maturity.
    BBM is one example of not evolving a concept to the next level. Not moving sooner or too slowly to roll out and complete BlackBerry10 (still) is yet another example.
    And the results are to watch other competitors come behind you and adapt your concepts, catch up and profit, while eating up market share and relying on you to repeat the process again and again. And your cloned concepts of competitors take over.
    Whether it's a lack of vision or the Visionaries not being the decision makers, it's Free Milk for everyone .....being paid for by the BlackBerry User. While , the old cow is being cut up into sections and sold off for beef.


    Posted via CB10
    05-04-16 09:30 AM
  17. ubizmo's Avatar
    On so many levels, I've noticed BlackBerry (how should I say) give the Milk Away for Free.
    By that I mean; having a viable idea and letting the fruit rot on the vine by not continually cultivating it to maturity.
    BBM is one example of not evolving a concept to the next level. Not moving sooner or too slowly to roll out and complete BlackBerry10 (still) is yet another example.
    And the results are to watch other competitors come behind you and adapt your concepts, catch up and profit, while eating up market share and relying on you to repeat the process again and again. And your cloned concepts of competitors take over.
    Whether it's a lack of vision or the Visionaries not being the decision makers, it's Free Milk for everyone .....being paid for by the BlackBerry User. While , the old cow is being cut up into sections and sold off for beef.
    Wait a minute. Is it milk, fruit, or beef?

    In any case, you're right. It fits the pattern of not quickly responding to trends. At one time, BBM had a kind of elite status among messaging services, because it was connected to what were perceived as elite devices: BlackBerry phones. This niche is currently occupied by iMessage. I teach at a university. Almost 100% of my students these days use iPhones. Asked why, the most common answer is iMessage. It's what their friends are using, and they don't want to be out of the loop.

    It's anybody's guess what will happen next. These message services rise and fall. AIM was once a Big Deal. You could use it on both mobile and desktop, with lots of features. It's still out there, but it's stock went down as AOL itself faded out, even though you didn't have to be an AOL subscriber to use it. But it was conceptually connected to AOL, which itself came to be perceived as declasse'. The same is true of Yahoo Messenger, which also worked quite well. We think it's a Big Deal to have WhatsApp Web, when these other messengers had desktop or web clients more than ten years ago (AIM Express, for example).
    TgeekB likes this.
    05-04-16 10:27 AM
  18. fschmeck's Avatar
    I'd forgotten about yahoo messenger and aim. Heck, I used to use MSN a lot. Is it even still a thing?

    I remember talking to BlackBerry just before the Z10 launched about their plans for BBM. They made it sound like it would become an entire social hub, with everything from chat, to an "Xbox Live"-like gaming profile all rolled together. I still think it's a great platform for sharing content, but certainly is only a small part of what it could have been.

    Online payments would be one thing I'd like to see, but I'm not sure how they'd compete with Apple Pay now.

    Posted via CB10
    05-04-16 07:00 PM
  19. ubizmo's Avatar
    I'd forgotten about yahoo messenger and aim. Heck, I used to use MSN a lot. Is it even still a thing?
    I don't know, but AIM and Yahoo Messenger still have Android apps that work.
    05-04-16 07:17 PM
  20. RS78's Avatar
    What are the ways to save it?

    Posted via CB10
    05-05-16 09:07 AM
  21. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Get as many of your friends as possible to use BBM. Bonus points if they convert from WhatsApp.
    About a half billion would be a good start.
    05-05-16 09:30 AM
  22. Loc22's Avatar
    What is the big deal about installing/having "yet another IM app besides the one they already use"? LOL, are their phones running low on memory?
    Exactly most people have limited memory on their phones. Some are also not bothered to learn how to use another app.

    Some says there are just too many they can't keep up.

    Posted via CB10
    05-06-16 04:37 AM
  23. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    That's more-or-less true, but IT DOESN'T MATTER. WA has gained over 1 billion monthly active users! The vast majority aren't especially concerned about privacy and security - they want convenience. That's the point.
    The question is whether WA is really so much more convenient.
    Yes, all your friends are already using the app, that’s the biggest plus regarding convenience, but it doesn’t mean that BBM is complicated or inconvenient.
    Glympse integration in BBM is very convenient for me.
    Screen sharing during a video call on BB10 (only) is very much convenient too.

    BBM will perhaps never make it in the mass markets, but that doesn’t mean it is a bad product.
    BBM isn’t difficult by any means, it has actually more features than WA without being complicated, and is therefore simply the better messenger.

    I do agree the vast majority of the market is already pwned, but people just don’t care. Some good examples can be found here:
    World?s Biggest Data Breaches & Hacks | Information is Beautiful

    However, that doesn’t mean it is the right thing to do.
    I never care what the masses are doing, I rather ask what Jesus would have done.
    05-10-16 08:07 AM
  24. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    The question is whether WA is really so much more convenient.
    Yes, all your friends are already using the app, that’s the biggest plus regarding convenience, but it doesn’t mean that BBM is complicated or inconvenient.
    You might not be sure, but there is a REASON those 1+B people are using WhatsApp, even though BBM and AIM and MS Messenger and a dozen other apps existed before WhatsApp and even though many already had accounts and contacts in those other apps. WhatsApp contact discovery was a big breakthrough that, more than any other factor, was responsible for WhatsApp's growth.

    By comparison, BBM's contact discovery is painful - it is one of the most difficult there is with any IM. Sure, you get privacy that way, but the vast majority much prefer ease of contact discovery - which makes an IM client useful - than privacy. Obviously a few disagree, but if you want to know the biggest reason BBM lost, that would be it.
    05-10-16 01:03 PM
  25. igor10000's Avatar
    BBM has over 100 million downloads in google play, not really losing it

    Posted via CB10
    05-10-16 04:57 PM
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