[Geeoff]

There are a two possibilities here:

1. The OP is right. RIM does have a bad track record of critical delays. This delay would become evident over the next few weeks. The stock will tank. It is true that making good software is very tough and lots of companies have had problems with this. This could be a nightmare scenario for RIM.

2. The OP is wrong. Everyone knows that BB10 is a big deal. Everyone knows that RIM *has* to prove it can meet deadlines. The rumours are that the hardware is ready. I'm sure the young kids working on BB10 are seriously motivated right now. They didn't have to worry about layoffs and they know their future rests on BB10.... This OP could be shooting off just for fun....

I think that the OP needs to provide evidence to convince us, but unfortunately December 2012 does remain a real possibility and it is in line with RIM's promises.

[Alex_Hong]

OP theory might be right, but might be wrong too. Since the QNX base BB10 will have a different radio stack from the OS itself. Perhaps RIM has already released the BB10 radio stack to the carrier on a Dev Alpha device for them to test? We already know that the BB10 Dev Alpha that developers have is able to receive phone calls using a bluetooth headset, just that there is no app to dial it.

Of course this is just my theory, just like what OP is saying is a theory. Last month, i heard from an employee from BlackBerry's Singapore office, saying something about BB10 London, something about the London olympics, something about how it's going to be huge. But you don't see me starting a new thread about that because no matter what, that is just a hear say. I'll believe when i see it.

If everyone were to start a thread when they hear the carrier reps, or RIM employee, or a friend's friend working at RIM, the mods here will be extremely busy. haha.

[1magine]

I am always surprised and a bit saddenned when I see so many of these, "..I'd rather see it late and perfect, than early and botched..." posts.

To be as generous as I can be, this is a false choice. There is no reason a top manufacturer can not achieve both. Why is RIM stock hovering between $9-$11? Because of this thinking. In the past 3+ years, RIM has repeatedly been both late and botched.

And yes, it is entirely true that the new CEO was actually the guy in charge of these projects. As odd as it sounds, the truth is, the prior CEOs big problem was their faith and reliance and not firing Thorsten and his team. TH's team brought you the Storm and the Tour (remember all the faulty track balls?), two product lines that forever had to be closed due to public opinion. They brought you the unfinished Playbook. They ok'd the hardware choices on BB7's flagship devices (9900 camera choice, 9860 plastic screen no NFC...). To speculate, even among RIM insiders that this team is not on top of the BB10 release would not be unusual. Remeber the software team has been working on this for almost 2 years, and the software is still not ready. Heck, the BB7/7.1 theme studio is still not ready. That said, virtually no software in the last 5 years has released perfect and bug free. That's why there are updates for everything from your phone, to your video card, to your camera, keyboard and mouse.

For what its worth, many people are hearing from those not in the higher echelons of RIM, but in the trenches - so to speak, that the clusterFk continues. We should keep in mind that these people do not have a full overview and like all of us, need to vent about work sometimes.

Finally - we are still 2 months from August deadlines, 4 months from end of Oct., 5 months from November. Not only are completing deadlines speculative at this point, they are near impossible with all the actual evidence presented - - actually predictable. The level of human involvement dictates that truth. Not that this will stop posts like this one or the opposite viewpoint posted on N4bb.com.

[Notatroll123]

And what does ONE guy at Telus know? Maybe BB10 isn't initially launching at Telus, but at Bell or Rogers instead?

[Underdogz]

I am always surprised and a bit saddenned when I see so many of these, "..I'd rather see it late and perfect, than early and botched..." posts.

To be as generous as I can be, this is a false choice. There is no reason a top manufacturer can not achieve both. Why is RIM stock hovering between $9-$11? Because of this thinking. In the past 3+ years, RIM has repeatedly been both late and botched.

And yes, it is entirely true that the new CEO was actually the guy in charge of these projects. As odd as it sounds, the truth is, the prior CEOs big problem was their faith and reliance and not firing Thorsten and his team. TH's team brought you the Storm and the Tour (remember all the faulty track balls?), two product lines that forever had to be closed due to public opinion. They brought you the unfinished Playbook. They ok'd the hardware choices on BB7's flagship devices (9900 camera choice, 9860 plastic screen no NFC...). To speculate, even among RIM insiders that this team is not on top of the BB10 release would not be unusual. Remeber the software team has been working on this for almost 2 years, and the software is still not ready. Heck, the BB7/7.1 theme studio is still not ready. That said, virtually no software in the last 5 years has released perfect and bug free. That's why there are updates for everything from your phone, to your video card, to your camera, keyboard and mouse.

For what its worth, many people are hearing from those not in the higher echelons of RIM, but in the trenches - so to speak, that the clusterFk continues. We should keep in mind that these people do not have a full overview and like all of us, need to vent about work sometimes.

Finally - we are still 2 months from August deadlines, 4 months from end of Oct., 5 months from November. Not only are completing deadlines speculative at this point, they are near impossible with all the actual evidence presented - - actually predictable. The level of human involvement dictates that truth. Not that this will stop posts like this one or the opposite viewpoint posted on N4bb.com.

Lord have Mercy!!

There are actually people on this forum that "Get It"

What my original post eluded to was that someone who works within the industry (at whatever capacity) was echoing the sentiments as the OP. I just found it a coincidence that I was hearing tis twice in 1 week ( BB10 will not hit the market in 2012)

The repair techs I spoke with where actually fierce supporters of BB , they wanted nothing more than to see BB succeed , but where being realistic.

BB is in a lot of trouble.

I too love my BB, I so want BB to come back and succeed. I pray that BB10 will be a home run.

The opinion these Techs were echoing was that even if BB10 blows everything out of the water, it will not turn RIM around overnight. RIM has a long way to go.

A lot of customers they lost to Apple and Android will never come back no matter what RIM does.

As much as the Zealots here won't accept that , I (unfortunately) accept that they made a lot of sense.

[kbz1960]

I think crackberry needs to address this thread or the topic of bb10 not being released until next year.

Fearless leader? Have a clue? True or not? No clue?

[howarmat]

just have BGR run an article just like with the OS 2 delay to feb. That worked well

[kbz1960]

just have BGR run an article just like with the OS 2 delay to feb. That worked well

LOL yep except for the feeling of that site on here.

[dbmalloy]

Hmmmm.... one whole post.... nothing good to say about RIM... and dead give away with line...."Of course what my rim friends".... which indicates the OP does not even own an BB..... so why bother even post her.... I smell a troll.....

[southlander]

The opinion these Techs were echoing was that even if BB10 blows everything out of the water, it will not turn RIM around overnight. RIM has a long way to go.

This part is common knowledge and has been posted in CrackBerry Blogs and in these forums over and over.

[bungaboy]

Grain of salt.

Block of salt would work as well.

[bungaboy]

I think the Admins/Mods might want to consider preventing "one-post wonders" from starting threads immediately upon surfacing from under the bridge.

Let them participate in existing threads (without hijacking) until they achieve some semblance of credibility and/or knowledge or a certain post count.

Or prove that they are not living in their mother's basement. L0L

[Canuck671]

I know for a fact that the sun is hot!!!!!

Everything else is speculation. I speculate that lunch will suck today too!

[calicocat2010]

There are a two possibilities here:

1. The OP is right. RIM does have a bad track record of critical delays. This delay would become evident over the next few weeks. The stock will tank. It is true that making good software is very tough and lots of companies have had problems with this. This could be a nightmare scenario for RIM.

2. The OP is wrong. Everyone knows that BB10 is a big deal. Everyone knows that RIM *has* to prove it can meet deadlines. The rumours are that the hardware is ready. I'm sure the young kids working on BB10 are seriously motivated right now. They didn't have to worry about layoffs and they know their future rests on BB10.... This OP could be shooting off just for fun....

I think that the OP needs to provide evidence to convince us, but unfortunately December 2012 does remain a real possibility and it is in line with RIM's promises.

Unless the end of the world happens Dec 21st, not likely but still hopefully RIM succeeds.

[jakie55]

It's a phone...and an operating system....not world hunger or world peace

[kbz1960]

It's a phone...and an operating system....not world hunger or world peace

True but it also may be RIM lives or dies.

[Thunderbuck]

It took the PB software team over a year to "complete" the product after it was launched.

And you're missing my point. The decision to build a new tablet/phone OS based on QNX wasn't a bad one at all, but it was very ambitious, and clearly RIM management underestimated the time and resources. Senior management fail (inadequate planning).

There was an arrogance among the senior executive that I think led them to believe that if they announced a ship date that "of course" it would spur the development team to move faster. So they announced WAY sooner than they should have. Senior management fail (inadequate grasp of reality).

That arrogance carried into a baffling decision to price the Playbook on par with the iPad, presumably with the understanding that the BlackBerry brand was somehow worth MORE than Apple's. Again, senior management fail (either -poor market research or a stunning disregard for GOOD research--imagine how different the past year might have been for RIM had they released the Playbook in August with $150 lower price for each model).

New products can run into development hitches, it happens. But it's the executive that blindly rushes to launch despite every indication that the product is doomed without further work.

And was Heins part of that decision? Maybe. He might have also been fighting his co-bosses every step of the way. Given RIM's markedly improved execution since Heins' takeover, I think the latter.

[sportline]

time will tell, but the way things are happening now, rim is probably 50% faster than it was, and still too slow. management attention has to be split to look at many non routines - from layoff, restructuring, image-repair to development of bb10.
bb10 touchscreen with meego style interface, no button, playbook interface & icons? scary.

[ADGrant]

New products can run into development hitches, it happens. But it's the executive that blindly rushes to launch despite every indication that the product is doomed without further work.

And was Heins part of that decision? Maybe. He might have also been fighting his co-bosses every step of the way. Given RIM's markedly improved execution since Heins' takeover, I think the latter.

Heins was probably part of that decision. Its a little early to judge Heins' ability to delver major new products since he is yet to do so.

[Thunderbuck]

Heins was probably part of that decision. Its a little early to judge Heins' ability to delver major new products since he is yet to do so.

I respect that you might see it that way; I'm sure many others share that point of view.

What makes more sense to me, though, is that Heins had been objecting to the direction the company was taking, and presented a plan to the RIM board last fall that included the decision to push back the BB10 introduction. Whatever plan he presented, it amounted to his job interview and helped him secure the CEO's chair.

RIM has executed well since then, meeting targets and concentrating on developer support.

[silversun10]

probably the truth is he just wanted an update on the BB10 status and rather than do his own DD, the poster just said its not coming any time soon, just prove me wrong, and there you go, BB10 update delivered in his Crackberry thread...

[russworman]

Think it must have been another N4BB exclusive... Just kidding

[katiepea]

Hmmmm.... one whole post.... nothing good to say about RIM... and dead give away with line...."Of course what my rim friends".... which indicates the OP does not even own an BB..... so why bother even post her.... I smell a troll.....

how is posting a story that ended up on the front page of this website prior to it showing up there "trolling" .. calling anyone who says something not immediately positive about blackberry a "troll" is in fact, trolling. that word gets used around here all the time, and is not often used properly, typically by people who don't use the internet much

[1magine]

I think the Admins/Mods might want to consider preventing "one-post wonders" from starting threads immediately upon surfacing from under the bridge.

Let them participate in existing threads (without hijacking) until they achieve some semblance of credibility and/or knowledge or a certain post count.

Or prove that they are not living in their mother's basement. L0L

Really - from the guy who's been here a whopping 3 months with 70+ posts?

Here's an idea to those that want to post - ask yourself what are you contributing to the thread? If it's merely an ad hominem attack - that is attacking the speaker, rather than the message - you have nothing to add. Your message that the speaker is new and therefore should not be trusted, does not address what he or the valid points others have added to the thread.

Since you are 'NEW', let me make sure you are aware, many posters to this site, create new IDs to post information and occassionally software. The fact that they have limited posts under that ID makes no difference to those that benefit from a leaked OS or reliable information.

[Jake Storm]

Really - from the guy who's been here a whopping 3 months with 70+ posts?

Here's an idea to those that want to post - ask yourself what are you contributing to the thread? If it's merely an ad hominem attack - that is attacking the speaker, rather than the message - you have nothing to add. Your message that the speaker is new and therefore should not be trusted, does not address what he or the valid points others have added to the thread.

Since you are 'NEW', let me make sure you are aware, many posters to this site, create new IDs to post information and occassionally software. The fact that they have limited posts under that ID makes no difference to those that benefit from a leaked OS or reliable information.

And sometime guys who have been here since Oct 2008 with nearly 2000 posts still don't contribute much to the thread