[LuayS]

I disagree with people who say it's too late.
Are you saying that if in 3 years, some unheard of company develops a 5mm thick phone, no one will buy it because android and apple dominate the market?
People just want something new. That's why RIM will innovate with bb10, bringing a ton of NEW features to the competition so that people will say wow, give me a blackberry, my iPhone can't do that. It's a constant roll over roll of competitiveness. RIM will learn from iOS and android, then Android will learn from RIM and apple, then apple will learn from RIM and android, and so on.

didn't you get the memo? People don't change.... /sarcasm

Like seriously that is like 15 years ago saying Apple will be bankrupt....oh wait that was said.

[Yoox_II]

For the last time, to anyone saying Hey OP you're wrong and your info isn't accurate...
I said repeatedly that this is my OPINION. I said that I am not right. No one is right about BB10 until it is released to the public. **opinion ** is what this thread is, so please stop attacking me for putting down android. I am not putting it down, I am stating my opinion as to how blackberry 10 will perform compared to android.
Thanks to those who posted their opinion and did not attack mine.
I did not intend to make it seem like I know more than there is to know about blackberry 10, I simply am stating my opinion and assuming couple of things based on apps and features that were showcased at blackberry world and other rumors which seem credible. They may be completely untrue, but it's my opinion based on the assumption that they are true.

Thank you

[Premium1]

For the last time, to anyone saying Hey OP you're wrong and your info isn't accurate...
I said repeatedly that this is my OPINION. I said that I am not right. No one is right about BB10 until it is released to the public. **opinion ** is what this thread is, so please stop attacking me for putting down android. I am not putting it down, I am stating my opinion as to how blackberry 10 will perform compared to android.
Thanks to those who posted their opinion and did not attack mine.
I did not intend to make it seem like I know more than there is to know about blackberry 10, I simply am stating my opinion and assuming couple of things based on apps and features that were showcased at blackberry world and other rumors which seem credible. They may be completely untrue, but it's my opinion based on the assumption that they are true.

Thank you

People gave reasons why bb10 won't pass android especially not anytime soon. Nobody is attacking you and you should expect those types of arguments with a thread like this with a virtually unseen and untested product. Give it time no need to build up hype it can't live up to. Small steps will get bb back to respectable again.

[NFLPLAYBOOK]

There's no doubt QNX is the best mobile OS on the market right now. That alone won't get BB10 to sell. RIM is late to the party with this new OS and it's been very difficult for them to build their ecosystem. Android open source will always make them a popular choice even if their core OS is lacking. RIM also has Windows 8 baring down on them and their ecosystem is already in place. I just hope RIM continues along this positive path they are now on. I don't see them taking over any of the major players in the short term but they could in the long run.

[SugarMouth]

Eh I honestly don't see why people say iPhones & Androids aren't "business" phones.
I mean, yeah; Blackberry is more suitable LOOKING for business, but I know way more
people with iPhones & Androids who are in the business world, than those with a Blackberry.

I have always thought that as well. I want BB to succeed but they just are behind the curve. iOS and Android really are more productive. This is not an opinion, it really is a fact! I am not loyal to one brand, I switch phones and operating systems embarrassingly often. WP7, Android and iOS has more to offer.

BlackBerry is like buying a piece of hardware that no software manufacturer supports!

BB10? I am rooting for this to be a success like you guys are! But keep in mind, Android, iOS and WP7 have a huge head start with developer support and you know that is what makes a phone productive or not.

BB10 needs to do something amazing otherwise why wouldn't people simply go with the other 3 who have a more mature platform and app support. Anything can happen however and that is why I am rooting for BB10, but we will see.

[Morty2264]

That won't be too hard, since WP7 isn't selling. However, I expect WP8 and Windows RT tablets to sell.

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

I know this is entirely unrelated to this discussion, but I couldn't help but comment...
You have a Nokia Lumia 900!!! I love those phones! The messaging, social networking, pixels/colours are amazing, in my opinion!

[morlock_man]

I disagree with people who say it's too late.
Are you saying that if in 3 years, some unheard of company develops a 5mm thick phone, no one will buy it because android and apple dominate the market?
People just want something new. That's why RIM will innovate with bb10, bringing a ton of NEW features to the competition so that people will say wow, give me a blackberry, my iPhone can't do that. It's a constant roll over roll of competitiveness. RIM will learn from iOS and android, then Android will learn from RIM and apple, then apple will learn from RIM and android, and so on.

And what do they do when what they learn tells them they need to switch over to a microkernel to maximize battery life and stability on their platforms?

Unless they've already started development secretly, it would take them years to catch up. I don't think the market will wait for them, much like how it's not waiting for RIM now, and they're on the bleeding edge of OS development.

Incorporating features from your competitors and having a developed app ecosystem is one thing, but redesigning kernel of your OS is a completely different beast.

[mountainman]

BB7 already beats Android.

[ahu89]

In terms of function. BB7 is probably more user friendly and more stable than the Android ICS.

However in terms of app development and user incentive to switch? No, it is much easier to develop an app for android than developing for BB. It is much more profitable to develop an app for Apple than for BB. There is much more potential developing with windows 10 mobile than for BB. Unless RIM go directly after developers, they already lost the consumer market before the OS even hits the market.

[Laura Knotek]

I know this is entirely unrelated to this discussion, but I couldn't help but comment...

You have a Nokia Lumia 900!!! I love those phones! The messaging, social networking, pixels/colours are amazing, in my opinion!

I'm very happy with it. I've posted in the Windows Phone forum and on wpcentral.

Back on topic, Windows is making progress on its ecosystem. Office, SkyDrive and Xbox integration is great. For example, when i take pictures, they are automatically uploaded to SkyDrive. I do not need to perform any extra steps to upload to a cloud service such as DropBox.


RIM needs to build its ecosystem for BB10. The Playbook is a start, but a native cloud service is essential.



Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

[market58]

BB10 will go as far as developers take it. If we get the same old apps rehashed and rebranded for BB10 without some of the big names, I'm going to be pissed. I use my phone first as a communication tool, but it would be nice to have some of the frontline apps available for it. I will wait for the launch before i make any hasty decisions about it. It all looks good at the shows when everyone is peeked up and excited. Lets see where the rubber meets the road. I want a phone that doesn't lag and is smooth as butter. It needs to be as good if not better than the iOS and Android experience. We shall see.

[Premium1]

BB7 already beats Android.

Only in how many times you have to pull the battery when the phones freeze

[iN8ter]

What are you talking about? Never said anything about the size of the devices.

Is this not referencing the size of some hypothetical device?

Are you saying that if in 3 years, some unheard of company develops a 5mm thick phone, no one will buy it because android and apple dominate the market?

Yea, thought so...

You're implying people run to phones just cause they're thinner, that's not necessarily the case, and that analogy was a bit of a stretch anyways.

[ynomrah]

I like this thread because you can really determine the rational mindset of the posters who agree with op. lol.

Sent via tapatalk using the Samsung Galaxy Note

[Geeoff]

I agree with the OP.

Here is the key. RIM needs to license BB10 to other manufacturers. There would be more restrictions than Android, but if BB10 is licensed for free, then carriers and manufacturers would flock to it.

First, we have to assume that BB10 is a functioning, stable OS. This is reasonable, but not guaranteed.

Second, RIM can talk with Samsung, HTC, etc. and license BB10 to them for free, just like Android. However, there would need to be heavy restrictions so that the core security is not compromised for Blackberry users. Maybe RIM could even refrain from including the key security elements.

RIM would make it`s money from BBM subscribers. No ads. Simple.

BBM subscriptions would not be huge dollars, but it would be sufficient. And it would be a sticky revenue stream with high margins. And it would help to expand their eco-system.

From a consumer and manufacturer stand-point there would be no big difference between an Android phone and a BB10 phone. People just want a shiny smart-phone with apps. Soon enough the Samsungs of the world will start to manufacture cheap BB10s. And the carriers will be happy to push them because of the data compression.

Right now the main selling point for Android is that it is free. BB10 can easily top this by being free and saving carriers money as well.

[belfastdispatcher]

I don't need BB10 to beat Android, I just want them to keep providing the experience I've come to love. There's no medal waiting at the top.

[psufan32]

I'm not sure if anyone agrees with me here but ill just throw it out there.
I used a couple of my friend's android phones (one was low end, the other was high end) and although Android is nice and customizable, it's really not that spectacular...
It lags frequently, and when scrolling through different menus, it's no where as smooth as the Playbook (which will basically be the same as bb10) . I think people buy the iPhone cause the OS is pretty nice, but others only buy android to be different than the main streem or cause android was marketed with a more "fun" look to it, with the green little robot.
People will see blackberry 10 as uniform, consistent, creative, professional, AND fun, which no doubt beats android simple "fun" image. You wouldn't see many professionals using an android device.
IOS may still beat out BlackBerry 10, for a while anyway, but Android should be pretty scared right about now. I find that the Playbook is alot more fun to use than the iPad anyway, with all of the unique screen gestures.
Plus, recent articles about iOS have pointed out that they haven't changed much in its 5 years of life, so maybe something new (BB10) will pull over some customers.
Just my thoughts

I respect that you have your own thoughts, but your logic is nonsense. I'm sure that RIM will find some success with BB10, and I hope that they do. However, the trends are ridiculously in Apple's and Google's favor, and not in RIM's favor. The smartphone market is growing, and will continue to grow (especially as high speed data spreads through the BRICK countries and beyond). In that regard, RIM should sell more devices, even if they continue to lose market share. At the same time, Apple and Google are gaining market share, and are gaining market share quickly.

Even if BB10 is a better phone, and a better OS, we're talking about ecosystems today - how does this device and its services/capabilities fit into the consumer's everyday life. We see it with cloud services, streaming digital music, streaming movies and TV, smart TVs, smart BDs, etc. Everything is becoming connected - how does BB10 fit into all of that? I don't think that RIM needs to come out with a "BB TV", or a "BB Market", etc. There are already a ton of options, and fragmentation across each major smartphone maker is a burden on consumers.

RIM's best bet, in the near term, is to put out a great phone both software and hardware wise, to seek out partnerships rather than doing everything in house (as they have with their new keyboard and with their camera), and to try to curb the slide. Then, and only then, can they and should they begin to cut back into market share.

[psufan32]

I agree with the OP.

Here is the key. RIM needs to license BB10 to other manufacturers. There would be more restrictions than Android, but if BB10 is licensed for free, then carriers and manufacturers would flock to it.

First, we have to assume that BB10 is a functioning, stable OS. This is reasonable, but not guaranteed.

Second, RIM can talk with Samsung, HTC, etc. and license BB10 to them for free, just like Android.

Android is given away for free because of the massive potential for ads on mobile devices. Remember, Google makes its money through advertisements. Ads fund every other part of their business. THAT is why it is given away for free.

However, there would need to be heavy restrictions so that the core security is not compromised for Blackberry users. Maybe RIM could even refrain from including the key security elements.

RIM would make it`s money from BBM subscribers. No ads. Simple.

Why would anyone pay for BBM? What does BBM have that dozens of other free messaging services don't have? Think of it this way - for as popular as Angry Birds is (and it's huge), it only generated $106 million in revenue last year. BBM is not nearly as popular as Angry Birds. Do the math.

BBM subscriptions would not be huge dollars, but it would be sufficient. And it would be a sticky revenue stream with high margins. And it would help to expand their eco-system.

RIM's lack of an ecosystem is precisely why giving away BB10 wouldn't work. They don't have any way of monetizing BB10, aside from your suggestion of BBM (which would be DOA).

From a consumer and manufacturer stand-point there would be no big difference between an Android phone and a BB10 phone. People just want a shiny smart-phone with apps.

Wrong and wrong.

Soon enough the Samsungs of the world will start to manufacture cheap BB10s. And the carriers will be happy to push them because of the data compression.

Right now the main selling point for Android is that it is free. BB10 can easily top this by being free and saving carriers money as well.

Most (if not all) Android manufacturers pay Microsoft some $18 per handset for patent licenses. The system being "free" is a draw, however, if the phones didn't sell, they wouldn't be making them. BB10 might be free, but the demand is simply not there to make it a widespread practice like Android.

I've seen it stated here many, many times that Android and iPhone are successful simply because they have a ton of apps. This is as simplified as saying that Android and iPhone are successful simply because they have touchscreens (which, unfortunately, was the stance of Mike and Jim when the iPhone came out). To simplify success to such a trivial level is to miss the mark entirely.

[Premium1]

I agree with the OP.

Here is the key. RIM needs to license BB10 to other manufacturers. There would be more restrictions than Android, but if BB10 is licensed for free, then carriers and manufacturers would flock to it.

First, we have to assume that BB10 is a functioning, stable OS. This is reasonable, but not guaranteed.

Second, RIM can talk with Samsung, HTC, etc. and license BB10 to them for free, just like Android. However, there would need to be heavy restrictions so that the core security is not compromised for Blackberry users. Maybe RIM could even refrain from including the key security elements.

RIM would make it`s money from BBM subscribers. No ads. Simple.

BBM subscriptions would not be huge dollars, but it would be sufficient. And it would be a sticky revenue stream with high margins. And it would help to expand their eco-system.

From a consumer and manufacturer stand-point there would be no big difference between an Android phone and a BB10 phone. People just want a shiny smart-phone with apps. Soon enough the Samsungs of the world will start to manufacture cheap BB10s. And the carriers will be happy to push them because of the data compression.

Right now the main selling point for Android is that it is free. BB10 can easily top this by being free and saving carriers money as well.

Who is going to pay for bbm when you have iMessage and others that are free? Carriers only support it because it's free? That is false if I ever heard it. Android is adopted because of choice and how well it sells like crazy and carriers are all about making money. Plus carriers can charge whatever they like has nothing to do with being free since carriers don't pay that the oems do

[kbz1960]

Who is going to pay for bbm when you have iMessage and others that are free? Carriers only support it because it's free? That is false if I ever heard it. Android is adopted because of choice and how well it sells like crazy and carriers are all about making money. Plus carriers can charge whatever they like has nothing to do with being free since carriers don't pay that the oems do

I don't think for most people that android sells because it's open source or because of anything it can do. It sells because it's on hundreds of phones from cheap pos to high end phones. Most people don't care or know about the OS. Yes apps do play a part.

[Superfly_FR]

I don't think it's that simple. BB10 may be better than Android, but not see good adoption because of marketing, apps, carrier partnerships, or bad timing.

While unvolontary, I think the timing is perfect. Mature Android needs a break to consolidate on both user experience and devices, next mobile iOS does not seems to be revolutionary (so far) but a natural evolution (the home screen / UI, maybe ?).
BB10 can hold the role of the "new experience" precisely in this interval.
I believe Kevin when he reports how deeply RIM has changed on many (all ?) fronts, so that I forecast they'll do and deliver unmatched sexy, secure and appealing devices.

[Premium1]

I don't think for most people that android sells because it's open source or because of anything it can do. It sells because it's on hundreds of phones from cheap pos to high end phones. Most people don't care or know about the OS. Yes apps do play a part.

I never said it sold because it is open source?

[kbz1960]

I never said it sold because it is open source?

Sorry, seems when people say choice they are talking open source. Wasn't directed to only you or I would have quoted.

[Premium1]

While unvolontary, I think the timing is perfect. Mature Android needs a break to consolidate on both user experience and devices, next mobile iOS does not seems to be revolutionary (so far) but a natural evolution (the home screen / UI, maybe ?).
BB10 can hold the role of the "new experience" precisely in this interval.
I believe Kevin when he reports how deeply RIM has changed on many (all ?) fronts, so that I forecast they'll do and deliver unmatched sexy, secure and appealing devices.

It's hard to get people to change especially those who have a lot invested in one platform through apps, etc. free apps don't matter its those who paid and don't want to lose those paid apps. Bb should give free app world credit with purchase of bb10 devices

[Premium1]

Sorry, seems when people say choice they are talking open source. Wasn't directed to only you or I would have quoted.

I meant various sizes, shapes, prices of android devices.