12-07-13 04:09 AM
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  1. NursingNinja's Avatar
    Do you really think that?

    A. There is no native app on blackberry that is superior to iOS or Android. I own all 3 and can promise you that you are way off in that statement. If anything the native apps on Blackberry are behind the apps on iOS and Android.

    B. 95%? You really believe that? You are so wrong it's almost embarrassing. Actually it is embarrassing because that is just flat out incorrect and beyond an exaggeration. It's just ludicrous.

    You are so way off on both counts. I can't honestly think that you really believe your statements above.

    I'm going to stand corrected on the 95% statement. It was a shot from the hip remark, hyperbole if you will. Basically my point was that so many of the apps monetize the consumers personal information without them being aware of how it is being done or worse.

    As far as the Native apps being superior they just are. The hub is a far superior form of communication. If you can't see that you haven't used it. BlackBerry remember is far superior to any notes or memos app that comes on board IOS and android. Even the phone app is better because you can take notes while on a call, also in email you can flag to remember or calendar. It integrates with outlook better and more seamlessly than any other os. You can pull data from the device and the cloud as if they were all connected and in one place without hunting and pecking through a series of apps.

    I will be honest that I am no IOS or android expert but everyone I have shown these features to IOS or android users they were very clear that these are things they cannot do, or are too cumbersome to do on their phone.
    12-01-13 06:01 PM
  2. Unbiased Tech's Avatar
    I'm going to stand corrected on the 95% statement. It was a shot from the hip remark, hyperbole if you will. Basically my point was that so many of the apps monetize the consumers personal information without them being aware of how it is being done or worse.

    As far as the Native apps being superior they just are. The hub is a far superior form of communication. If you can't see that you haven't used it. BlackBerry remember is far superior to any notes or memos app that comes on board IOS and android. Even the phone app is better because you can take notes while on a call, also in email you can flag to remember or calendar. It integrates with outlook better and more seamlessly than any other os. You can pull data from the device and the cloud as if they were all connected and in one place without hunting and pecking through a series of apps.

    I will be honest that I am no IOS or android expert but everyone I have shown these features to IOS or android users they were very clear that these are things they cannot do, or are too cumbersome to do on their phone.
    Good points, but are you saying that BB integrates with Microsoft Outlook better than any other os including Microsoft Windows Phone 8? lol
    Saiga likes this.
    12-01-13 06:32 PM
  3. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    I couldn't care less either.... but somehow we BlackBerry fellows read so much about them in our forum that we start to care....
    And exactly who's problem is that? Where does the fault lie? Obviously with the person who goes to bed at night and loses sleep over it.
    12-01-13 07:09 PM
  4. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    And exactly who's problem is that? Where does the fault lie? Obviously with the person who goes to bed at night and loses sleep over it.
    There is no fault it's just the nature of it. Nobody talks about apple computers without mentioning Windows PCs. And sometimes Linux.

    Posted via CB10
    12-01-13 07:27 PM
  5. ToddJack's Avatar
    Hi Guys

    While BB10 is a huge upgrade, it comes up short for what the vast majority of mobile device users want apps, flexibility, & platform stability . I left blackberry in Aug of this year for an Samsung android phone (S3) and Samsung tablet 2 after having had a blackberry phone and 2 blackberry playbooks. the fact that blackberry users have to rely so heavily on android apps (side loading or in BB store) speaks volumes. Most people are not going to want to deal with the process of side loading android apps on their blackberry mobile devices and even then those android apps may not work correctly. As far as Flexibility goes, I rooted my android tablet a week after it came in the mail, this process allows me to move apps to my sdcard to save space or delete bloatware that came with the Tab 2, I can also select what version of android I want to load and run. I could also do this same process with my Samsung phone. This is no such option with a blackberry phone or tablet that I know of ( Please correct me if I'm wrong). finally platform stability, I've read tons of post on Crackberry on how unstable android mobile devices are or were. I have had almost no issues with my Samsung devices, they are extremely reliable. My blackberry phone locked up every blue moon but not enough to bother me at all. My playbook's was a whole different experience, probably because most of the apps in BB world were ported older android apps. I loved blackberry but the android platform is just plain better and has a future.
    Last edited by ToddJack; 12-01-13 at 07:54 PM.
    12-01-13 07:27 PM
  6. Blacklatino's Avatar
    <p>
    Yeah. I&#39;ll let the debate move on. Just remember, one of the big issues has always been for many(not all of you) the need for more apps while some(not all of us) were making a villain out of a company that capitalized on that need and created a ish load of apps for BB. So, here we are with Android apps on our BlackBerries. Those of us that already have Androids, cool. What I find amusing are those that swore to hate Android until the end of time........but, you&#39;re utilizing the apps. Go figure. Just an observation.</p>
    Last edited by Blacklatino; 12-01-13 at 08:23 PM. Reason: @#$ characters are showing up.
    12-01-13 07:57 PM
  7. bp3dots's Avatar
    Malware is an overloaded term.

    A couple years ago I got an android tablet.
    It was new experience for me and I installed a couple apps.
    Later on, I noticed that my twitter account started spamming others.
    Perhaps, it was my negligence and I allowed some settings that I was not supposed to.
    Perhaps it was a flaw in the OS; I didn't investigate the cause.
    Fast forward to BB10.
    I add a twitter account in the device settings - no need for downloading anything extra.
    I don't change defaults values on the registration form.
    The OS pops up a window saying that the by default it would use my contacts to find friends.
    Do I really want to do that? Nope, I respect my privacy. Thanks for the warning, rejected.


    Another example.
    Somebody mentioned that they use instagram for business communication.
    I thought it might be a great idea after all and decided to check their security protection.
    Well, it took me seconds to find that Instagram credentials were stolen by a small phishing app (link).
    The article mentions that 100,000 users were affected, not a small group.
    This means that some business ideas could be easily stolen from the cloud.


    The bottom line.
    Do I trust free services and can keep up with all the security vulnerabilities?
    Nah, I'd rather use built-in services that BlackBerry phones provide out of the box.
    I don't care about NSA but I do respect my privacy.
    So, you installed some random apps, (not sure which since you didn't say) that may or may not have compromised your Twitter account? Which can also be done without apps at all.) I've never had any issue using the official Twitter for Android, or the ones preinstalled in skinned OS versions (touchwiz, Sense, etc) All of those act exactly as you describe on your BB10 device. Your example sounds like the user not paying attention to what he/she installed, which is a weak point on all platforms.

    As for Instagram, by business communication (which some already helped clarify) I didn't mean Instagram's embedded ads. Many people/small and large business use accounts to advertise and promote their brands. Of my own friends, two that own bars use it to show off food and drinks, and one who owns a clothing boutique selling locally made things uses it to show his sales and new items. Nobody is going to steal their ideas, they're ust using IG for basically free promotions that can reach millions. As a small business owner, that's a huge tool to have available.
    Last edited by bp3dots; 12-01-13 at 08:07 PM. Reason: typos
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    12-01-13 08:06 PM
  8. bp3dots's Avatar
    I named three things. And I personally only consider two of them customizing. Well I'll also count widgets. So that's 3 of 4.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1055
    Sorry, I meant "both" as in both what you and I had said.

    If you think of customization as a scale, small changes (like I'd mentioned) on the low end and big ones (your idea of it) at teh high end, but still, all are customizations.
    12-01-13 08:32 PM
  9. Vorkosigan's Avatar
    Hi Guys

    While BB10 is a huge upgrade, it comes up short for what the vast majority of mobile device users want apps, flexibility, & platform stability . I left blackberry in Aug of this year for an Samsung android phone (S3) and Samsung tablet 2 after having had a blackberry phone and 2 blackberry playbooks. the fact that blackberry users have to rely so heavily on android apps (side loading or in BB store) speaks volumes. Most people are not going to want to deal with the process of side loading android apps on their blackberry mobile devices and even then those android apps may not work correctly. As far as Flexibility goes, I rooted my android tablet a week after it came in the mail, this process allows me to move apps to my sdcard to save space or delete bloatware that came with the Tab 2, I can also select what version of android I want to load and run. I could also do this same process with my Samsung phone. This is no such option with a blackberry phone or tablet that I know of ( Please correct me if I'm wrong). finally platform stability, I've read tons of post on Crackberry on how unstable android mobile devices are or were. I have had almost no issues with my Samsung devices, they are extremely reliable. My blackberry phone locked up every blue moon but not enough to bother me at all. My playbook's was a whole different experience, probably because most of the apps in BB world were ported older android apps. I loved blackberry but the android platform is just plain better and has a future.
    And you don't find it ironic that in order to get the flexibility you need from Android you had to root it? Guess what. Those same people won't side load won't root their phones.



    Posted via CB10
    12-01-13 08:39 PM
  10. stackberry369's Avatar
    And you don't find it ironic that in order to get the flexibility you need from Android you had to root it? Guess what. Those same people won't side load won't root their phones.



    Posted via CB10
    I have no need for rooting,

    sent from my galaxy note 3
    12-01-13 08:41 PM
  11. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Agreed. The majority of Android users don't root. To give you some perspective, Phil N, editor of AC doesn't root.
    12-01-13 08:44 PM
  12. vrud's Avatar
    So, you installed some random apps, (not sure which since you didn't say) that may or may not have compromised your Twitter account? Which can also be done without apps at all.) I've never had any issue using the official Twitter for Android, or the ones preinstalled in skinned OS versions (touchwiz, Sense, etc) All of those act exactly as you describe on your BB10 device. Your example sounds like the user not paying attention to what he/she installed, which is a weak point on all platforms.

    As for Instagram, by business communication (which some already helped clarify) I didn't mean Instagram's embedded ads. Many people/small and large business use accounts to advertise and promote their brands. Of my own friends, two that own bars use it to show off food and drinks, and one who owns a clothing boutique selling locally made things uses it to show his sales and new items. Nobody is going to steal their ideas, they're ust using IG for basically free promotions that can reach millions. As a small business owner, that's a huge tool to have available.
    In order to use twitter application on an android device, it has to be installed.
    So yes, I installed twitter application and facebook and a book reader - I think it was limited to these only.
    The installation process reminded me of a number of fake BBM apps in Google play store asking for a donation (I even blamed myself for not building a fake one too). You don't need to install Twitter on BB10, so less chance it can be altered.

    As I mentioned above, BB10 twitter activation step warns me that they could use my device contacts database for their marketing purposes.
    Does android twitter application notify user about that? I haven't seen such warning (they asked about GPS only).
    In fact, I can't even disable access to some of the APIs for an app - it's either access everything or nothing.
    On BB, I feel security (might be blindly) - when an alarm clock application asks for contacts access, I simply deny it and continue with the installation.
    So, not all platforms have weak security model as you might think.

    Thanks for reiterating what IG is used for - as I said before, it becomes clearer why BB is pushing channels.
    If nobody is going to steal anything then why the malicious application was pulled off from google play?
    Seems weird to cut somebody's business.
    damien kupuku likes this.
    12-01-13 08:58 PM
  13. bp3dots's Avatar
    In order to use twitter application on an android device, it has to be installed.
    So yes, I installed twitter application and facebook and a book reader - I think it was limited to these only.
    The installation process reminded me of a number of fake BBM apps in Google play store asking for a donation (I even blamed myself for not building a fake one too). You don't need to install Twitter on BB10, so less chance it can be altered.

    As I mentioned above, BB10 twitter activation step warns me that they could use my device contacts database for their marketing purposes.
    Does android twitter application notify user about that? I haven't seen such warning (they asked about GPS only).
    In fact, I can't even disable access to some of the APIs for an app - it's either access everything or nothing.
    On BB, I feel security (might be blindly) - when an alarm clock application asks for contacts access, I simply deny it and continue with the installation.
    So, not all platforms have weak security model as you might think.

    Thanks for reiterating what IG is used for - as I said before, it becomes clearer why BB is pushing channels.
    If nobody is going to steal anything then why the malicious application was pulled off from google play?
    Seems weird to cut somebody's business.
    The official Twitter client has never asked for donations, so I'm not sure what you were downloading. And yes, it does ask permission to use your contacts.to link them with Twitter handles (if they have one) but I've never seen a warning for use in marketing. (That may all be in one message, I never hit 'Yes' to that part, and never read it all the way through) It does also inquire about GPS.

    I believe Touchwiz and Sense phones have Twitter clients preinstalled, so they don't need a separate install, and they behave just like the official one as far as permissions go.

    I am aware of the "all in" for permissions, though I've never seen it as an issue. Any app that asks for anything I don't want it to have I wouldn't install anyway. I also made no comment about platforms being less or more secure, only that the user is the weakest point in any.
    12-01-13 09:18 PM
  14. mkmilan's Avatar
    Just gave up my PB for Note 8, and am so impressed that am seriously thinking about giving up my beloved 9900 for a Note 3 .... Sigh ..... Tried BB10, but no contest, sorry ...... Will give up my trackpad (sob) and KB (sob, sob) .... Oh well, life goes on .... Sigh
    12-01-13 09:19 PM
  15. ToddJack's Avatar
    And you don't find it ironic that in order to get the flexibility you need from Android you had to root it? Guess what. Those same people won't side load won't root their phones.

    Posted via CB10
    I rooted my tablet because I wanted to and have the freedom using Android to unlock more options available to me and still have a reliable & upgradable mobile platform, even if I didn't root my tablet I still have a better mobile device new out the box. how about your phone or tablet do you have any of the those options???
    Last edited by ToddJack; 12-01-13 at 09:36 PM.
    12-01-13 09:21 PM
  16. vrud's Avatar
    that the user is the weakest point in any.
    I don't agree.
    I believe that Chancellor of Germany' BB10 is more difficult to hack into than the Z10 I own, even though my technology experience is higher (imho of course).

    But we share the same vision - that's why I won't likely root a device and keep personal info on that smartphone.
    No, I'm not a security crazy that my identity can be stolen - I don't care that much.
    My beloved one cancels credit card every two years on average after a bank call to highlight suspicious transactions.
    I tried android (and I still have it) and BB10 and my personal preference is BB10 today even though the platforms are very close to each other.
    12-01-13 09:51 PM
  17. XDrew42's Avatar
    Assuming that you are speaking of an Android? The Z10 and gestures is by far smoother and quicker to anywhere. Not for show....actually useful. and the buttons...just take up valuable screen space......whether on not its maker.....BB included.... 10.2.1.1055 OS (a leak) has taken it much further in so many areas. App to app. Pinch to isolate in the HUB any message group (customizable) message to message.....etc....
    Now that I think about it. I would like to see the swipe up to close an active frame. Hold center...swipe up and left? to avoid the movement of the fingers when we touch wrong icon and slide to another. Because I do miss the tiny x with my big fingers and open the app again.....not huge but would be nice.
    damien kupuku likes this.
    12-01-13 10:05 PM
  18. Vorkosigan's Avatar
    I rooted my tablet because I wanted to and have the freedom using Android to unlock more options available to me and still have a reliable & upgradable mobile platform, even if I didn't root my tablet I still have a better mobile device new out the box. how about your phone or tablet do you have any of the those options???
    No. I have the option to side load. Kind of my point. You say that side loading isn't a viable option - then you bring up rooting - as if that is somehow different.

    However, I've never side loaded an app because my phone did what I needed new, out of the box. And yes I have a reliable platform that has in less than a year received 3 updates.

    Posted via CB10
    12-01-13 10:16 PM
  19. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    No. I have the option to side load. Kind of my point. You say that side loading isn't a viable option - then you bring up rooting - as if that is somehow different.

    However, I've never side loaded an app because my phone did what I needed new, out of the box. And yes I have a reliable platform that has in less than a year received 3 updates.

    Posted via CB10
    I know right.... these people with their Androids telling us sideloading isn't viable but rooting is... hypocrisy at the highest level...

    Posted via CB10
    damien kupuku likes this.
    12-01-13 10:29 PM
  20. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I know right.... these people with their Androids telling us sideloading isn't viable but rooting is... hypocrisy at the highest level...
    Both are options. Where are you getting hypocrisy from?

    Neither is a reasonable expectation with regards increasing adoption on the respective platforms. In other words, if either Android or BB10 depends on consumers to hack to move devices, it won't work, IMHO.

    I remember when Android people used "but you can root it" as the standard response to noted deficiencies. Hacking is not a viable option, then or now, for any platform that wants to be profitable IMHO.
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    12-01-13 10:41 PM
  21. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    And rooting and sideloading are quite different, BTW. The one is more about adding on; the other is taking full control.

    You can't really compare the two. Rooting encompasses sideloading, and then some.
    Last edited by Tre Lawrence; 12-02-13 at 12:01 AM.
    12-01-13 10:44 PM
  22. A895's Avatar
    And rooting and sideloading are quite different, BTW. The one is more about adding on; the other is taking full control.

    You can't really compare the two. Rooting encompasses sideloading, abs then some.
    Both require some technical know how by the user. Rooting even more so, than sideloading because sideloading can be done with chrome extension as compared to rooting which requires time and patience, and any mistakes can cause a bricked phone and a void warranty.

    Sent from my XT907 using CB Forums mobile app
    Dave Bourque likes this.
    12-01-13 10:55 PM
  23. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Both require some technical know how by the user. Rooting even more so, than sideloading because sideloading can be done with chrome extension as compared to rooting which requires time and patience, and any mistakes can cause a bricked phone and a void warranty.

    Sent from my XT907 using CB Forums mobile app
    Agreed. Some devices are as easy as one touch utility to root; others are more involved. I've made missteps LOL but have never been unable to recover a bricked device.

    Android has had the ability to sideload apps for a while, but I don't think it picked up as a platform till it's natural ecosystem (i.e the Play Store) picked up. Like rooting, Android sideloading was/is not a viable option for the "regular" people that really determine a platform's success IMHO.
    12-01-13 11:24 PM
  24. propeller10's Avatar
    My god. This thread is still going strong. I didn't think this was going to last this long.
    12-01-13 11:34 PM
  25. Saiga's Avatar
    Come on Dave, because a few people have been converted you speak for the masses? How many people have been converted away from Blackberry 10
    Or tried it and hated it and went to another OS. This holds true for every platform and Blackberry isn't the only one "converting" users.
    That's exactly what I hate. The whole argument that "if only people knew about BlackBerry 10, they'd love it!".

    Dave can clam that he converted people to BlackBerry 10 all he wants, but I tried it every since if still looked like the PlayBook, and only saw a platform that simply didn't meet my needs. BlackBerry OS7, a OS Dave has never even owned according to his own statements, met my needs better than BB10 does. How many other people have tried BB10 and simply didnt like it? We can't say for sure, but I bet it was quite a few. The notion that people will fall in love with BB10 if they try it is just silly. The Hub (aka the same thing I had on my 7250) and gestures simply aren't enough to sway people to a whole new platform. The abysmal sales of BlackBerry 10 devices pretty much prove that.
    12-01-13 11:46 PM
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