02-13-17 02:14 PM
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  1. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I think crowd funding a future bb10 device could work if it sets a goal it needs to get the project up without any financial commitment by BlackBerry, only build what is ordered. Many projects on kickstarter go this route. It would just need to show everyone what it will need in capital and let the bb10 die hards try and see if they can attain the set goal .
    I imagine there are a couple of large Enterprise / Government groups that would have liked to have seen BB10 continue also.... might have even asked BlackBerry for a $number$ to make that happen. They would have probably have been able to offer much more than the few hardcore BB10 Fans that are left.....

    I wonder how many of these crowdfunded projects really ever deliver? For a comparable situation, look at Once-promising Finnish mobile upstart Jolla is having some hard times - Business Insider Nordic
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    02-10-17 01:48 PM
  2. spantch101's Avatar
    We've talked about this before, and the numbers are absurd.

    When BB ended development of BB10 back in 2014, they laid off 1700 people - after laying off 2800 in 2013. Let's be extremely generous and say that only 500 of them were actually needed to develop the OS itself. And lets say that, because it's Canada, that the total costs (salary+benefits+bonuses+taxes+office space+equipment+training, etc.) to BB for putting those 500 workers to work for a year is $200k/person. Now, let's say that - somehow, BB discovers a magic lamp, rubs it, and a genie pops out and grants BB the ability to do the same work with HALF the people, and we cut that figure in half! You're still looking at $50M for a year of development work - and that's JUST OS software! That's not the additional cost of QNX drivers, and it's certainly not the cost of designing or manufacturing new hardware.

    So, if you somehow managed to find 100,000 BB10 ultra-fans who all agreed to pay for BB10 OS development on Kickstarter (again, no new hardware, no new drivers, no new apps, no new Android Runtime, no updates to the development environment or APIs), then each of those 100,000 fans would need to pay $500. If you wanted an actual PHONE, then each of them would probably need to pay somewhere around $1200-1500. Of course, that assumes BB would be willing to agree to all of that (which they won't - they're out of the smartphone business), and it also assumes that BB could find employees willing to come to work for them for only a year at standard pay (I suspect most would demand a premium).

    And the biggest assumption of all would be that 100,000 BB10 fans would pay that cash up-front. I doubt you could get 1000 people to do so.

    Crowdsourcing is great for much smaller projects, but the most amount of crowdsourced money ever gathered for a project is less than 10% of the crazy low figure I've given here, and remember, that's just OS development.

    A mobile OS platform is not a weekend project in the garage. Even huge companies like HP understood that it takes massive resources to become a marketable product, and canceled WebOS. The quality of the OS design isn't in question - rather, it's the business realities. They're harsh. If there was a simple fix, it would have been tried long ago.
    Lol I'm not asking for more software development, if we use same software on newer internals, we don't even need new processing arcitecture. Everyone knows this isn't going to happen anyways, but all I'm saying is if people wanted a new device running on same software then why not? I'm sure most of the hardware could stay the same. If BlackBerry were to license bb10 to another device manufacturer it would be the same thing only hardware that is supported by the kernel would be used obviously. Unless they updated the kernel to support updated hardware which was not what I was saying anyway.

    Posted Via Passport with CB10 app
    Last edited by Fret Madden; 02-11-17 at 12:31 AM. Reason: Offensive comment removed
    02-10-17 07:31 PM
  3. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Lol I'm not asking for more software development, if we use same software on newer internals, we don't even need new processing arcitecture. Everyone knows this isn't going to happen anyways, but all I'm saying is if people wanted a new device running on same software then why not? I'm sure most of the hardware could stay the same. If BlackBerry were to license bb10 to another device manufacturer it would be the same thing only hardware that is supported by the kernel would be used obviously. Unless they updated the kernel to support updated hardware which was not what I was saying anyway.
    None of the hardware that BB10 is designed to operate on is available anymore - it's been out of production for some time. That includes SoC, memory module, camera module, and other parts. A new release of BB10 hardware - no matter what it was - would require purchasing updated SoC drivers (at least), integrating and tuning those drivers with BB10, and all of the post-processing & tuning for the camera. That's minimum - and that is a significant amount of development. But the browser need some serious work, the Contacts have never worked right, and there are plenty of other things that would need work. Oh, let's not forget that the Android Runtime would need to be stripped out now that BB has a Google license, which is more work still.

    As I said, it would take a good year, at least, of solid development work by a sizable team in order to get a new device out to the market - and that's without any significant "new" development of the OS or stock apps - we'd just be talking about fixing the things that would absolutely have to be fixed, and getting it running well on new hardware. But such a phone would be limited to running only native BB10 apps - no Android apps, not even the packaged apps in BB World - would run without the Android Runtime. And we all know that the state of BB10 native apps is bad and getting worse every day.

    A lot of folks simply underestimate - by a LOT - the amount of work that it takes to maintain a mobile OS to the level that it's a viable retail product. Really, the only companies that have done this are Apple, Google, Microsoft, and Samsung. BB stopped BB10 development 2.5 years ago, and Tizen barely qualified as "retail ready" and only on a limited release in emerging markets - and I don't think they've released a Tizen phone in over a year, so it's pretty much an "accessories OS" for smart watches and TVs at this point. Apple spends over a billion a year on iOS development, and Google spends nearly 2B on Android. I've got to believe that MS was spending at least a billion a year on WinPhone until recently. That's what it takes to play in the big leagues, and BB just isn't at that level anymore - not even close. BB didn't give up BB10 because they wanted to...
    02-11-17 02:16 AM
  4. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I wonder if BlackBerry have had the marketing billions of Samsung during that period and enough cash to burn through would it be a popular platform today? Say, would 100 billion had helped push the needle and deliver the message that BlackBerry was back stronger than ever? An absurd amount.. and a theoretical question that is hard to answer and even in vain.. but still.. I like to think about it, as I'm still in love with this OS. It fits my needs perfectly.
    Those billions didn't help propagate bada, Tizen or WinPhone for Samsung. It takes way more than a huge marketing push; BB10 itself couldn't compete with the entrenched players.
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    02-11-17 03:34 AM
  5. kvndoom's Avatar
    Those billions didn't help propagate bada, Tizen or WinPhone for Samsung. It takes way more than a huge marketing push; BB10 itself couldn't compete with the entrenched players.
    You can also add FireOS and Firefox OS to that list. The bottom line is that not a single mobile OS without a strong app ecosystem has had success. Not a single one. But people still foolishly convince themselves that having 3rd party apps available and actively developed isn't important.
    StephanieMaks and BigBadWulf like this.
    02-11-17 05:11 AM
  6. ZeBB45's Avatar
    You can also add FireOS and Firefox OS to that list. The bottom line is that not a single mobile OS without a strong app ecosystem has had success. Not a single one. But people still foolishly convince themselves that having 3rd party apps available and actively developed isn't important.
    Spot on! We go though this time and time again.

    It doesn't matter how well the OS flows, or how many built-in utilities such as file manager it has. Bottom line: unless the app ecosytem is there, and the end user can install the OFFICIAL popular apps like Snapchat, it isn't gonna be widely accepted my the masses.

    PP SE - 10.3.2.2876/SR .2836  < α∂∂ι¢т > 
    02-11-17 06:50 AM
  7. fschmeck's Avatar
    Lol I'm not asking for more software development, if we use same software on newer internals, we don't even need new processing arcitecture. Everyone knows this isn't going to happen anyways, but all I'm saying is if people wanted a new device running on same software then why not?
    Within seconds of delivering this people would start asking for a dark hub, and we'd need some software

    I'd be happy with a better camera and more storage. The speed (as a communications platform) is already good enough for me for everything I can throw at it.

    Problem is the software: it's getting out of date, does not integrate as well with popular cloud services, and some of the fixes we've wanted are just not happening.

    If I was going to throw good money after bad, I think there would be more benefit in updating the software for existing hardware. Honestly there would be more luck in trying to crowdfund something to keep key software like WhatsApp in development.

    As far as I'm concerned now though, I think the best approach is to throw support behind BB's existing sw efforts on Android, with TCL's h/w and try and push that in the direction we want, rather than try and keep on old platform that can't evolve.

    I love BB10, and hope BB can make their Android additions into something more like it.

    Posted via CB10
    BigBadWulf and StephanieMaks like this.
    02-11-17 07:30 AM
  8. stlabrat's Avatar
    It's not a dead child. It's a sleeping dragon! Of course, it takes a single individual with buckets of money and a passion and vision for the OS to wake it again, BlackBerry would be open for this opportunity. Anyone here that meets these criteria?

    Posted via CB10
    Jon Rubinstien or Mike plus someone else - not Jim - he is too far north hunting shipwreck.
    02-12-17 06:41 PM
  9. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    I imagine there are a couple of large Enterprise / Government groups that would have liked to have seen BB10 continue also.... might have even asked BlackBerry for a $number$ to make that happen. They would have probably have been able to offer much more than the few hardcore BB10 Fans that are left.....

    [...]
    Fast, vigorous clap here... ^

    And that's really you posting that? I'm amazed. Well done! :-D

    •   Mercurial greetings , hopefully coming soon to Planet Earth... :-D   •
    02-13-17 01:51 PM
  10. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Fast, vigorous clap here... ^

    And that's really you posting that? I'm amazed. Well done! :-D

    •   Mercurial greetings , hopefully coming soon to Planet Earth... :-D   •
    Hey I know there was a NICHE... I know some government agency bought into BB10... US - SENATE, WHITE HOUSE, STATE DEPARTMENT.

    They have sold almost 10 million phones in the last four years, some of those customers are going to want options to stick with the platform.... I assume they have been paying attention and stocked up.

    Doesn't change the fact that BlackBerry can't afford the BB10 platform anymore.
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    02-13-17 02:14 PM
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