[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Yes, but was it returned because of lack of apps or because BB10 was a half baked mess upon release with a phone with about 3 hours of total battery life?

Lot's of reasons that BB10 failed, I agree with you that Apps wasn't the only issue. But it is the one problem that Chen could do nothing about....

If the Z10 had been the Z50, if that device had launched with BB10.3.3 and it's Amazon App Store, if they had spent a few million more on marketing what the phones "could do", and had priced the phones at a price that made an impression..... do you really think the limited App situation would have been overlooked?

Be like baking a cake without sugar......

[togarika]

Lot's of reasons that BB10 failed, I agree with you that Apps wasn't the only issue. But it is the one problem that Chen could do nothing about....

If the Z10 had been the Z50, if that device had launched with BB10.3.3 and it's Amazon App Store, if they had spent a few million more on marketing what the phones "could do", and had priced the phones at a price that made an impression..... do you really think the limited App situation would have been overlooked?

Be like baking a cake without sugar......

Really? Z10 being Z50? BB10.3.3? I think we expect too much. BB10 was way ahead of what it should have been at release. The problem is the competition was also ahead of what BB10 was. BlackBerry biggest mistake was targeting the US market which has carried already tied up with IPhone sales targets agreements with Apple. There was no way they were going to sell a lot of devices then. The price of the phones I agree with you was too high for the specs it had.

BlackBerry BB10 forever

[Denise in Los Angeles]

Chen did say no more BB10 phones in 2016. I'm not going to look for the link. Look for it on your own.

Then go to ShopBlackBerry and order 2 of Passport, Classic and Leap each, so that way you will have enough BB10 devices to last you for a few years.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Really? Z10 being Z50? BB10.3.3? I think we expect too much. BB10 was way ahead of what it should have been at release. The problem is the competition was also ahead of what BB10 was. BlackBerry biggest mistake was targeting the US market which has carried already tied up with IPhone sales targets agreements with Apple. There was no way they were going to sell a lot of devices then. The price of the phones I agree with you was too high for the specs it had.

BlackBerry BB10 forever

What market did you want them to target? The markets that they released the Z3 to?

[Denise in Los Angeles]

I read a lot of complaints in the Priv forum that the android facebook app does not integrate in the Hub.
I don't use facebook on mobile, tablets or laptops, but I don't understand why you say that integration of the facebook webpage notification in the Hub is a problem for BB10 when the same problem applies to Android Priv?

The big issue is that although the BB10 version of FaceBook was missing some features, it was great at giving notifications in the Hub (seeing who liked your photos or comments, or who sent you a message, etc.)

Buying a Priv and not having those Hub notifications, or seeing your BB10 device lose those notifications after you do the latest "update" makes the FaceBook app even less functional than it was previously.

[togarika]

What market did you want them to target? The markets that they released the Z3 to?

Everywhere else. All BlackBerry smartphones reached the emerging and developing markets months after their release in the US (except the z3 which was released in Indonesia first but still took some months to reach these makets) and as usual little to no advertising was done. In most of these markets Whatsapp and Facebook apps are the selling point, which BlackBerry had at release. BlackBerry could have capitalised on this because thier name wasn't that tarnished in these markets.

BlackBerry BB10 forever

[Prem WatsApp]

Save us! You're our only hope!

BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless

;-D

�   There's a Crack in the Berry right now...   �

[Prem WatsApp]

Chen did say no more BB10 phones in 2016. I'm not going to look for the link. Look for it on your own.

Then go to ShopBlackBerry and order 2 of Passport, Classic and Leap each, so that way you will have enough BB10 devices to last you for a few years.

Sux for the batteries... :-(

�   There's a Crack in the Berry right now...   �

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Everywhere else. All BlackBerry smartphones reached the emerging and developing markets months after their release in the US (except the z3 which was released in Indonesia first but still took some months to reach these makets) and as usual little to no advertising was done. In most of these markets Whatsapp and Facebook apps are the selling point, which BlackBerry had at release. BlackBerry could have capitalised on this because thier name wasn't that tarnished in these markets.

BlackBerry BB10 forever

So do you think these other markets would buy a BlackBerry... just because they get them several months earlier? That just because they wait a few months.... that's why they don't buy?

You do know that the US Market has had to wait for many of the BB10 devcies. The PRIV was released in several other markets before it came to a portion of the US Market. Took five more months before T-Mobile and Verizon got it.

The issue isn't the market they are focused on... it that the market they are focused on, doesn't really exist.

[kvndoom]

Google should go cross platform if they want to survive. Cross platform apps is the next thing. If I was a developer I would rather develop a cross platform app than to have to develop 2 or 3 same apps for different platforms. Android and IOS had a advantage because of their appstores but this will change soon. A cross platform apps initiative will gain support from a number of the other OSes and it might just save BlackBerry's BB10

BlackBerry BB10 forever

Google isn't having survival problems. That's ironic to read on a Blackberry forum of all places. But open, cross platform doesn't benefit Googs or Apple at all. Google makes money by Play Store commissions, search engine, and advertising. If any web browser on any phone/computer can run an app, how does it benefit Google? I could fire up a non-Chrome browser, download the app from somewhere that isn't Google Play Store, and go from there. Suddenly I can go cradle to grave with an app and Google never sees a penny. The big players stand to lose billions from cross-platform. They have literally nothing to gain from it.

Would it benefit developers? Absolutely! They would be free of Apple and Google's commissions and be able to keep more profit... until those companies fired back of course.

Even if cross platform became a thing, Blackberry has to do some serious updating to their browser to get it back up to par. One of the good things I took away from my week on Android is that there are some really nice mobile browsers out there, for other platforms.

[PantherBlitz]

BlackBerry biggest mistake was targeting the US market which has carried already tied up with IPhone sales targets agreements with Apple. There was no way they were going to sell a lot of devices then. The price of the phones I agree with you was too high for the specs it had.

Their "biggest mistake" was releasing BB10 in 2013. If it had released in 2010, it would have had a fighting chance. When BB10 launched, consumers had already decided on which smartphone they wanted and most Devs had little interest in writing for a third OS.

Really guys, arguing over price, marketing, or specs is pretty silly at this point.

[eshropshire]

Really? Z10 being Z50? BB10.3.3? I think we expect too much. BB10 was way ahead of what it should have been at release. The problem is the competition was also ahead of what BB10 was. BlackBerry biggest mistake was targeting the US market which has carried already tied up with IPhone sales targets agreements with Apple. There was no way they were going to sell a lot of devices then. The price of the phones I agree with you was too high for the specs it had.

BlackBerry BB10 forever

One other critical success factor was missing - and BB10 was launched in 2010, at the latest the 1st half of 2011. The battle was over by 2013. Microsoft has found that out with a very expensive multi-billion dollar fiasco.

[roleli]

Reasons BB10 failed

1. Apps - Just not enough. Even apps available on BBOS were not available on BB10.
2. It was late in 2013- should have been 2010/2011. Wasted time on Playbook. The Playbook fiasco (no email client) - Dented Developers' confidence and consumer interest
3. Apps - Too many hurried Android ported apps were of poor quality
4. Price - The price was all wrong for initial battery life, camera quality, limited apps and other issues.
5. Apps - Whatsapp was missing at launch..and will be missing again
6. Marketing - Device poorly marketed. Needed more product demos, mini showcase at stores not static flyers.
7. Apps - Many news,entertainment, sports apps were missing
8. No strategic plan to move BBOS users to BB10. No incentives. BB even released the BBOS based BB9720 in August 2013
9. Apps - No netflix. No such thing as a business phone. It was the consumer era BYOD
10. Distribution - From the Z10, distribution has only gotten worse. Challenges getting carriers on-board.
11. Apps - Users wanted all the apps in Google Play plus Apple Store.

50% of the problem was the lack of apps. smartphones live in an ecosystem. They fixed the battery life in the Z30 thereafter but the app issue remained. Amazon Store was too little too late.

[bh7171]

The big issue is that although the BB10 version of FaceBook was missing some features, it was great at giving notifications in the Hub (seeing who liked your photos or comments, or who sent you a message, etc.)

Buying a Priv and not having those Hub notifications, or seeing your BB10 device lose those notifications after you do the latest "update" makes the FaceBook app even less functional than it was previously.

If you want notifications with the improved Facebook (I have been using the always updated and fully functional web version for over a year so I do not understand any continuing Facebook gripes) just set them up to email and or txt and viola you have Facebook notifications in your BlackBerry 10 HUB. Personally I like and prefer they no longer show as they did with the half baked, non functional version.

The newest member....Cobalt Classic

[togarika]

Their "biggest mistake" was releasing BB10 in 2013. If it had released in 2010, it would have had a fighting chance. When BB10 launched, consumers had already decided on which smartphone they wanted and most Devs had little interest in writing for a third OS.

Really guys, arguing over price, marketing, or specs is pretty silly at this point.

It's not that Development decided to platforms are all that is needed. BlackBerry failed to manage their transition from BBOS to BB10. Customers were still waiting for BlackBerry to release something but they decided on BB10 without support for BBOS apps but supporting Android apps. That's were they lost it.

BlackBerry BB10 forever

[Fool Guy]

I strongly believe that lack of apps is a major issue, especially with former BlackBerry users.

Yes lack of Apps is a major issue but lack of awareness is no less major factor.
A common mobile user have zero idea about BB10 OS, it's capabilities and advantage over Android OS.
Some of common beliefs are:
Do i need BlackBerry plan too ?
It's complicated to operate
Do BlackBerry still makes phones ?
And so on

[idssteve]

Don't forget their abuse of their biggest customer... Verizon. All the best new OSes and APPs in the universe couldn't save RIM once Verizon turned against them. The Storm fiasco generated an impenetrable wall at sales force level. A wall still firmly in place, it seems.

Throw in poorly handled PlayBook fiasco, delay to 4G, being years late to a half baked (BB= Barely Baked? Lol) BB10.0, a nonexistent legacy migration pathway, etc, etc... and the amazing thing is that there's still anything called BlackBerry!

No ecosystem exists on a single nutrient. Apps might be essential but quite a few other conditions are equally essential. Legacy migration might have provided userbase critical mass to nourish BB10 app dev if original Q10 had been 10.3.2 Classic, for example. Maybe.

Fact remains tho, carrier resistance continues to shade the canopy floor. BlackBerrys need sunlight too!! Lol.

[MikeX74]

No.

[kvndoom]

Don't forget their abuse of their biggest customer... Verizon. All the best new OSes and APPs in the universe couldn't save RIM once Verizon turned against them. The Storm fiasco generated an impenetrable wall at sales force level. A wall still firmly in place, it seems.

They got burned pretty bad on the Z10 too. It's no wonder they weren't on board with the Priv launch. I hope the new phones get better carrier support at launch. If we start seeing fire sale Verizon Priv's like we have with AT&T, it might be a really bad sign.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Don't forget their abuse of their biggest customer... Verizon. All the best new OSes and APPs in the universe couldn't save RIM once Verizon turned against them. The Storm fiasco generated an impenetrable wall at sales force level. A wall still firmly in place, it seems.

Throw in poorly handled PlayBook fiasco, delay to 4G, being years late to a half baked (BB= Barely Baked? Lol) BB10.0, a nonexistent legacy migration pathway, etc, etc... and the amazing thing is that there's still anything called BlackBerry!

No ecosystem exists on a single nutrient. Apps might be essential but quite a few other conditions are equally essential. Legacy migration might have provided userbase critical mass to nourish BB10 app dev if original Q10 had been 10.3.2 Classic, for example. Maybe.

Fact remains tho, carrier resistance continues to shade the canopy floor. BlackBerrys need sunlight too!! Lol.

I wouldn't say impenetrable... I know of a number of people that worked with Carriers that were initially excited about BlackBerry's new BB10 OS and the Z10. As bad as the Z10 really was, it got pretty good reviews somehow and there was a lot of buzz back then. But here in the US, the two biggest apps at that time were Candy Crush and Instagram.... Those salespeople quickly lost their interests in the cool new gesture based OS, and as the returns came... they moved to disliking the new BlackBerry products, and avoided selling them. Wasn't long that management agreed and moved the BB10 devices out of stores to corporate sales and online sales.

That Verizon and most US Carriers agreed to offer the PRIV.. shows that as badly as BlackBerry has done recently, those Carriers really hoped that BlackBerry would succeed.

[BB-JAM215]

BlackBerry has already moved on and is gradually leaving BB10 behind -- and eventually 99.9 percent of us will too

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

BlackBerry has already moved on and is gradually leaving BB10 behind -- and eventually 99.9 percent of us will too

I expect when 2016 ends.. .there will still be a number looking for an announcement of new BB10 hardware.

[togarika]

BlackBerry has already moved on and is gradually leaving BB10 behind -- and eventually 99.9 percent of us will too

Really? Says who? Is it official?

BlackBerry BB10 forever

[TgeekB]

I know hindsight is 20/20, but lots of good points being made here. There was certainly more than 1 thing that caused BB10 to fail with the greater market.

[BB-JAM215]

Really? Says who? Is it official?

Really? Yes
Says who? Most who have been carefully following BlackBerry developments for the last year or so.
Is it official? No, it is not in BlackBerry's business interest to talk about it. They will continue to support BB10 for their business customers including NIAP security certification updates (10.33, etc) for as long as they need to. BB10 fans can continue to use their current hardware for as long as they care to, but otherwise that's about it for BB10.