[Mithrandrost]

The current app paradigm may be changing.

Progressive web apps (PWA) could be the undoing of the stranglehold Google Play and iTunes has on the mobile world. In the future, apps as we know them may just be web sites that are essentially "neutral" to browsers and OS. And this in turn may save unique or non-mainstream operating systems like BB10.

There is also an efficiency here with PWA. Right now, many companies advertise apps that they have on their websites (i.e. "Download our app!). Going to one platform is logical.

Thoughts?

PWA articles:

Wait! The Web Isn?t Dead After All. Google Made Sure of It | WIRED

https://joreteg.com/blog/why-i-switched-to-android

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[John Vieira]

People are now used to, Nd will always prefer apps, even if they are just website wrappers.

Most people don't know the difference, and developers don't even make the wrappers available for any other platforms others than ios and android.

Posted via a Priv on an 6.0 Mushroom

[togarika]

Google should go cross platform if they want to survive. Cross platform apps is the next thing. If I was a developer I would rather develop a cross platform app than to have to develop 2 or 3 same apps for different platforms. Android and IOS had a advantage because of their appstores but this will change soon. A cross platform apps initiative will gain support from a number of the other OSes and it might just save BlackBerry's BB10

BlackBerry BB10 forever

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[Denise in Los Angeles]

Google should go cross platform if they want to survive. Cross platform apps is the next thing. If I was a developer I would rather develop a cross platform app than to have to develop 2 or 3 same apps for different platforms. Android and IOS had a advantage because of their appstores but this will change soon. A cross platform apps initiative will gain support from a number of the other OSes and it might just save BlackBerry's BB10

BlackBerry BB10 forever

No, no, no and no.

Posted via the Diva's beautiful Red Passport!

[PantherBlitz]

Whatever happens will be too late to "save" BB10. Its already been shelved by BlackBerry - no new devices. The staff has been laid off.

PWA could become the norm in three months but it won't change BlackBerry's direction.

[howarmat]

we have been hearing this for years from people on this forum....it didnt happen fast enough to save bb10 and its not going to in the future either

[donnation]

If this happened tomorrow it wouldn't save BB10. The illusion that this massive number of people bought a BB10 phone, then returned it because it didn't have the apps they wanted is complete fantasy. Also is the thought that people aren't buying BB10 phones because they know ahead of time that it doesn't have the apps they want. People don't buy BB10 phones because: they aren't aware of them, they have poor cameras compared to other high end phones, they think BB's are outdated phones, they hate Blackberry because it reminds them of an old phone they had with a terrible browser, they hate physical keyboard phones, or they did buy one, didn't like it, and decided to never buy one again.

Not having apps is a small piece of a bigger picture, although a convenient excuse, for why BB10 failed and why BB won't make another phone with that OS or update it future with new features.

[Denise in Los Angeles]

If this happened tomorrow it wouldn't save BB10. The illusion that this massive number of people bought a BB10 phone, then returned it because it didn't have the apps they wanted is complete fantasy. Also is the thought that people aren't buying BB10 phones because they know ahead of time that it doesn't have the apps they want. People don't buy BB10 phones because: they aren't aware of them, they have poor cameras compared to other high end phones, they think BB's are outdated phones, they hate Blackberry because it reminds them of an old phone they had with a terrible browser, they hate physical keyboard phones, or they did buy one, didn't like it, and decided to never buy one again.

Not having apps is a small piece of a bigger picture, although a convenient excuse, for why BB10 failed and why BB won't make another phone with that OS or update it future with new features.

Only on CrackBerry is this strange belief that people don't know about BB10 phones, in spite of the hundreds of posts from our fellow board members who left due to their need for apps. Those were people who did read CrackBerry frequently, like ourselves.... but they left because they wanted apps.

I strongly believe that lack of apps is a major issue, especially with former BlackBerry users.

[Denise in Los Angeles]

Oh. BTW...I bought my Z10 at launch in April of 2013. Had to learn how to sideload apps! No amount of marketing would have made a difference to people that just want to go to the app store and get apps "the normal way." It just was not feasible to expect consumers to learn how to sideload.

[donnation]

Only on CrackBerry is this strange belief that people don't know about BB10 phones, in spite of the hundreds of posts from our fellow board members who left due to their need for apps. Those were people who did read CrackBerry frequently, like ourselves.... but they left because they wanted apps.

I strongly believe that lack of apps is a major issue, especially with former BlackBerry users.

That might make sense if this site represented the vast majority of Blackberry past users or the population in general. It doesn't.

[donnation]

Oh. BTW...I bought my Z10 at launch in April of 2013. Had to learn how to sideload apps! No amount of marketing would have made a difference to people that just want to go to the app store and get apps "the normal way." It just was not feasible to expect consumers to learn how to sideload.

Oh but all the former users who had moved on would know because they are all here. This is why your previous post doesn't hold water.

[Denise in Los Angeles]

That might make sense if this site represented the vast majority of Blackberry past users or the population in general. It doesn't.

It makes sense if you read the goodbye posts in the sticky thread. Those people knew that BB10 existed, and they were prior BlackBerry customers. They usually did say their reason for leaving. Apps.

[donnation]

It makes sense if you read the goodbye posts in the sticky thread. Those people knew that BB10 existed, and they were prior BlackBerry customers. They usually did say their reason for leaving. Apps.

Again, a very, very small portion of the population.

[Denise in Los Angeles]

Okay, let's try it your way then. Go back to April 2013. Tell us here how you would market a phone to US consumers. Keep in mind that the major apps are not present in BlackBerry World, the devices have poor battery life, overheating, rebooting, and blue screen of death problems, the carriers are pushing iPhones, oh, don't forget the use of lesser spec components, and the poor camera too! Even if you learn to sideload, some apps still will not work properly!

Okay, market it!!

[donnation]

Okay, let's try it your way then. Go back to April 2013. Tell us here how you would market a phone to US consumers. Keep in mind that the major apps are not present in BlackBerry World, the devices have poor battery life, overheating, rebooting, and blue screen of death problems, the carriers are pushing iPhones, oh, don't forget the use of lesser spec components, and the poor camera too! Even if you learn to sideload, some apps still will not work properly!

Okay, market it!!

All of the reasons you mentioned above in addition to no apps is why people didn't purchase BB10. Blaming it all on apps is a joke, which is exactly what I said in my original post.

[Denise in Los Angeles]

BB10 was not successful in 2013. Ditto 2014, Ditto 2015. It seems pretty doubtful that it is saveable in 2016, for a variety of reasons. We all know that BB10 failed miserably in the marketplace against iPhone and Android.

BB10 will not rise like Phoenix from the ashes.

[Troy Tiscareno]

As most app developers can easily explain to you, the web/HTML5 is simply no where near as robust and feature-complete - or secure - as a native application can be. It's why, for example, no bank has a feature on their mobile web that allows you to deposit checks by taking a pic with your phone, but there are lots and lots of examples. Another one for BB10 would be notifications - when the BB10 FB app went away, and people had to use the mobile website, they lost integration with the Hub. They also lost direct sharing of pics and videos to FB - it can still be done, but it's a kludge compared to how it was done in the app.

The vast majority of people want and expect the full functionality and the convenience that an app gives them, and few are willing to give that up to use the mobile web instead. Hell, look at the complaints over the BB10 FB app alone!

Google already has a mobile website for all of their services, but they make apps anyway, because the apps are better - often much better.

And web standards move far too slowly to ever catch up with native apps, because you have to get committees of people who have to agree that a feature is important, then agree on how to implement it, before you can get a standard, and devs aren't going to wait years to deploy a new feature on the web when they can deploy it today with their app.

If web apps were the answer, we'd already be using them. Mostly, we aren't, and won't, because apps will be better for the foreseeable future.

[sorinv]

I read a lot of complaints in the Priv forum that the android facebook app does not integrate in the Hub.
I don't use facebook on mobile, tablets or laptops, but I don't understand why you say that integration of the facebook webpage notification in the Hub is a problem for BB10 when the same problem applies to Android Priv?

[Soulstream]

I read a lot of complaints in the Priv forum that the android facebook app does not integrate in the Hub.
I don't use facebook on mobile, tablets or laptops, but I don't understand why you say that integration of the facebook webpage notification in the Hub is a problem for BB10 when the same problem applies to Android Priv?

The difference between the BB10 hub and the Priv one is that for BB10 app developers had to code their apps to integrate inside the hub because it was an OS feature, while for the Priv, BB themselves have to integrate the apps into the hub. Aslo people have come to expect hub integration on BB10 while the hub on Android is still young.

Back on the topic, I don't think "one language to rule them all" is going to come anytime soon in the mobile space. Why?
1. the cutting edge and best user experience can only be achieved through native apps
2. Users have come to expect apps to follow the design language of the OS they are installed on
3. no universal language exists in the desktop space (which is a more mature market) and you don't hear much complaining about it.

[kvndoom]

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[cgk]

The illusion that this massive number of people bought a BB10 phone, then returned it because it didn't have the apps they wanted is complete fantasy.

Actually we do know this in true in at least some markets - there was a court case last year about a mobile retailer who leaked return figures to a analyst. The analyst then write a report saying that returns were outpacing sales - this was decried as rubbish here - however in the actual courtcase this aspect of it was not disputed....

[donnation]

Actually we do know this in true in at least some markets - there was a court case last year about a mobile retailer who leaked return figures to a analyst. The analyst then write a report saying that returns were outpacing sales - this was decried as rubbish here - however in the actual courtcase this aspect of it was not disputed....

Yes, but was it returned because of lack of apps or because BB10 was a half baked mess upon release with a phone with about 3 hours of total battery life?

[Uzi]

Actually we do know this in true in at least some markets - there was a court case last year about a mobile retailer who leaked return figures to a analyst. The analyst then write a report saying that returns were outpacing sales - this was decried as rubbish here - however in the actual courtcase this aspect of it was not disputed....

It was Verizon if I recall correctly

[cgk]

It was Verizon if I recall correctly

Yes - it was a VP with one of the franchises (mobilezone) - he was giving sales and returns data to an analyst.