[jackcarr]

I think he's telling the truth, but only from the perspective that there are currently too many government entities that rely on BB10 for security reasons. So, BB10 will stay around until such time that another equally secure alternative is presented. I posted in another thread, the clock is still ticking for BlackBerry. They're still in a race against time, only now, the race involves securing a porous Android OS and convincing government customers that it's safe. They may lose that race and end up backing out of the handset market yet. I sincerely doubt they will successfully appeal to the masses with their Android offerings. The competition is already too stiff in that unfriendly realm.

On a side note, as a non-government customer of BB10, I would be willing to pay $100 more for a BB10 smartphone just to be able to remain on BB10, but not everyone would be wiling to do that. Rather than take that route, BlackBerry has decided to price their Android phone very high. Alas...the decisions have been made and the die has been cast. Tick, tock, tick, tock...

[Bbnivende]

its simple...android for the general public, bb10 for govt and large corperations who need and want that security...i am sure the website will only show android, but behind the scenes bb10 will be pushed to govt and large firms

What is being pushed is cross platform BES and that the PRIV works with Android at Work. There does not appear to be much behind the scenes direct sales. Enterprise buyers for the most part still buy through carriers. The end to end solution that Chen alludes to is not enough to support new devices. Lastly, Enterprise is moving to use their phones as more than an email device.

[ruben1975]

How big is BlackBerry consumerbase for Android???

Posted via CB10

[Emaderton3]

I think he's telling the truth, but only from the perspective that there are currently too many government entities that rely on BB10 for security reasons. So, BB10 will stay around until such time that another equally secure alternative is presented. I posted in another thread, the clock is still ticking for BlackBerry. They're still in a race against time, only now, the race involves securing a porous Android OS and convincing government customers that it's safe. They may lose that race and end up backing out of the handset market yet. I sincerely doubt they will successfully appeal to the masses with their Android offerings. The competition is already too stiff in that unfriendly realm.

On a side note, as a non-government customer of BB10, I would be willing to pay $100 more for a BB10 smartphone just to be able to remain on BB10, but not everyone would be wiling to do that. Rather than take that route, BlackBerry has decided to price their Android phone very high. Alas...the decisions have been made and the die has been cast. Tick, tock, tick, tock...

But these government entities are not yielding enough profits for BlackBerry to remain in the OS10 game.

Posted via CB10

[Bbnivende]

So how many units of BB10 devices were sold to government bodies last quarter? What would a good estimate be ? 10 percent ? 70,000 units . Then split those units between various devices. Anyway you slice it, not enough sales to support any new phones. BB10 will just be like BBOS 7.1 is today. Available but suspended.

[jackcarr]

But these government entities are not yielding enough profits for BlackBerry to remain in the OS10 game.

Posted via CB10

I didn't say government was providing enough business. It's not. That's why BlackBerry decided to test the Android waters...to see if remaining in the handset business is viable under a different OS. Personally I think in time, they will be out of the handset business.

[Genghis2k3]

One man's "creepy" is another man's "great feature!"

[Troy Tiscareno]

I doubt it will be as soon as 2017.
They've committed to supporting various enterprises, governments included.
Having only just fully rolled out BB10 there's no way the Department i work for in the UK will be able to put a replacement for BB10 in by 2017.
And my department is one of the ones that are ahead in technology when compared to others.
Of course that might not be the same story for the consumer

No one is saying they have to replace everything by 2017. Heck, there are still governments and big enterprises running BBOS, and that hasn't been significantly updated in 4+ years. That didn't stop BB from discontinuing development for BBOS, and it won't stop BB from discontinuing development of BB10.

[darkehawke]

No one is saying they have to replace everything by 2017. Heck, there are still governments and big enterprises running BBOS, and that hasn't been significantly updated in 4+ years. That didn't stop BB from discontinuing development for BBOS, and it won't stop BB from discontinuing development of BB10.

Ahh I possibly misread your post. Thought you said services would stop when you may have meant development for some services would maybe stop

[Bbnivende]

How big is BlackBerry consumerbase for Android???

Posted via CB10

We do not know. It does not help that they made an expensive slider . I am not sure that many PKB fans are buying into the best of both worlds thinking and the vast majority of buyers are looking for an all touch. I hope soon we will see three main models. All touch, Vienna and the PRIV. Just like August 2011. Like to see the Classic running Android as well.

[heading4tomorrow]

if you really believe anything measurable will come out of bb10 dev you are just plain out of touch. Android is the future for the hardware, however long the hardware sticks around.

If microsoft is supporting Windows 7 or even Windows Vista, I see no reason why BB cannot support BB10 for a few more years, especially since they are still actively selling these devices.
Remember, Win 7 was released in 2009. That's 7 years ago. BB should not give up on BB10 so fast.

However, they can say anything they want as long as they sell the rest of the BB10 devices they have, and if they set a clearance, I'd be glad to pick up Passport, Classic and a Leap at %50 price of what they are going for right now.

[TgeekB]

If microsoft is supporting Windows 7 or even Windows Vista, I see no reason why BB cannot support BB10 for a few more years, especially since they are still actively selling these devices.
Remember, Win 7 was released in 2009. That's 7 years ago. BB should not give up on BB10 so fast.

However, they can say anything they want as long as they sell the rest of the BB10 devices they have, and if they set a clearance, I'd be glad to pick up Passport, Classic and a Leap at %50 price of what they are going for right now.

Microsoft has a lot more money.

[howarmat]

Microsoft has a lot more money.

more money and a huge base of customers that actually use the software. they are maybe 10 million bb10 users our there total and even smaller number of "enterprise" users. Like I said they still have the BB10 OS and it will still work. There is no dev work going into it to make it better or add features though. Its support via security updates and that will be it imo.

[BlackberryFan777]

[QUOTE=Bbnivende;12243057]
All things considered I prefer an ecosystem over BB10.
/QUOTE]

With a different CEO, you might have both BB10 and an ecosystem. BB10 didn't launch all that badly in terms of ecosystem development. Better in a lot of ways than early iOS or Android. But, once Chen came on board, developer relations was scrapped and things just came to a halt.

There are some things about BB10 that make it a little tough to develop for. Qt/C++ is one of them. It's not that Cascades is hard, it's just that most app developers come from a different background. I'd like to see BB10 come out with compiled javascript as part of it's native SDK. Qt5 is getting there with the OpenGL QML engine, but BlackBerry under Mike L and Thor could do better. Not sure BlackBerry has any interest in building a platform under Chen.

[Platinum_2]

I'd like to see them ditch BB10, but offer a paid productivity package for Android - BB10 gestures throughout the OS, a Hub that's always open to the left of the main home screen, Blend, BlackBerry File Explorer, etc. Spare me the "you can already mimic BB10 gestures on Android" - yeah, but most people don't have the time to do that. I want a one-click purchase that does it all for me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who would pay up for it.

They have this....its called the BlackBerry Experience Suite. This will be a package of software that no doubt, will receive ongoing development and will probably answer your prayers. We'll have to wait and see...

Z10/Q10, 10.3.2.556, MPJ 5000 mAh extended battery.

[howarmat]

They have this....its called the BlackBerry Experience Suite. This will be a package of software that no doubt, will receive ongoing development and will probably answer your prayers. We'll have to wait and see...

Z10/Q10, 10.3.2.556, MPJ 5000 mAh extended battery.

They announced it over 1.5 year ago and nothing since. Dont count on it seeing the light of day

[jeremyr4]

I think some people aren't taking into account that BB will likely give a LOT of advanced notice for EOL because it knows it is dealing with many business customers and, perhaps more importantly, wants to keep these customers and move to them whatever device(s) they are making when the EOL occurs, albeit Android or BB10. So I'm anticipated a lot of notice for the EOL so we should all know quite in-advanced.

BTW, I'm an avid Classic user who would be very happy buying 3-5 new Classics at EOL when they are liquidated with the hope of using them for many years to come. I did the same with the Motorola Q9c (fantastic phone back in the day), a phone I was able to buy for $40 brand new at EOL and I managed to get through an additional 4 years until I could no longer buy replacement batteries that weren't dead (due to the long storage time). And I didn't do this because I was cheap - only because it kept me very productive with very long battery life and a great keyboard. Sound familiar? The Classic is the new Motorola Q9c!

Here's to hoping either a Classic 2 is eventually released or the Classic is liquidated at a very low price at its OEL

[RyanGermann]

BB10 is here to stay (for enterprise mostly) , no way in hell BlackBerry will be able to secure Android like BB10.

Why? I think the idea that Android can't be secured is false.

Security != Privacy: Android can be secured, but never private, unless you do something... like what BlackBerry did with BB10 and disconnect the OS from Google altogether... and without reviewing the source code, I'm not sure if even that's enough.

But as far as security is concerned, I believe that BlackBerry and Google (with hardware-based encryption built-in to the handsets) will be able to "secure" Android, but the Android OS by definition is built to enrich Google (at about $31 billion a year according to documents leaked by Oracle) so it can not, by definition, be "trusted", even if it can be secured... because Google is a for-profit company that follows (or doesn't follow) a patchwork of laws around the world and can simply move their operations to whatever country has the most lax rules and bob's your uncle: Google gets whatever they want. I mean, weren't they researching building a barge to operate their data centers outside of any nation-state's jurisdiction? Give it a few years, and I'm sure that will be an idea they will consider AND can afford to implement: they'll just buy the Azores off of Portugal and establish a separate country of their own.

The thing about BlackBerry 10 that can't be reproduced on Android (because a million android apps don't follow BlackBerry 10 user interaction design guidelines, and 900,000 of those don't follow any guidelines at all) is the user experience. A handful of BlackBerry branded apps (that, oh, by the way, are designed to appeal to Android enthusiasts / users, NOT BB10 users) that minimally ape the BB10 UX is no where near adequate.

[Troy Tiscareno]

I think some people aren't taking into account that BB will likely give a LOT of advanced notice for EOL because it knows it is dealing with many business customers and, perhaps more importantly, wants to keep these customers and move to them whatever device(s) they are making when the EOL occurs, albeit Android or BB10. So I'm anticipated a lot of notice for the EOL so we should all know quite in-advanced.

Based on the total lack of clarity with BBOS, I'd disagree. Anyone think that BBOS is still being developed? And yet, there was no "official" EOL announcement. BB just did the "fade away."

[RyanGermann]

So how many units of BB10 devices were sold to government bodies last quarter? What would a good estimate be ? 10 percent ? 70,000 units . Then split those units between various devices. Anyway you slice it, not enough sales to support any new phones. BB10 will just be like BBOS 7.1 is today. Available but suspended.

The better question is: if government bought 70,000, WHO bought the other 630,000? What are THEIR characteristics? Why did they buy a BB10 device instead of a device running iOS or Android, both platforms for which devices are available new and used at a variety of price points?

Given that it's so difficult to find BB10 devices in retailers, given that BB10's deficiencies are widely known, who is buying even 700,000 of these devices per quarter, and why?

If BlackBerry knows the answer to those questions, and isn't trying to simply get more of those type of people aware of BB10, where they are looking, not where they aren't looking, then why WHY should anyone believe that the current BlackBerry management team can succeed at ANYTHING?

That's what baffles me: despite making BB10 devices so DIFFICULT to know about, to buy, and to love, MILLIONS of people STILL find a way to find out about them, to purchase them, and yes, to LOVE them... and the assertion that absolutely EVERYONE who might want to know about, buy, and love a BB10 device ALREADY DOES know about, own, and love (or not) BB10, why, that's preposterous. If BlackBerry 10 was "almost" sustainable before every public effort by BlackBerry to make the market believe that a BB10 device investment is a poor investment, then it's easy to imagine that BlackBerry 10 could have found a sustainable business model if managed competently. But it wasn't, and going forward it won't be, and now, unfortunately, the adoption of Android has done harm to BlackBerry 10's reputation as a viable alternative to iOS and Android for the niche market of users that BB10 serves... harmed so severely it is irreversible.

It wasn't irreversable even after the failed attempt to sell the company (none of the big players seeing enough value in BlackBerry technology to be interested was VERY damaging to BlackBerry 10's reputation)... but it became irreversible when Android came on the scene... because that's just admitting defeat right there. No, not defeat that "BlackBerry 10 sucks!" but admitting "we have NO idea how to make a viable business around excellent technology that doesn't have third-party support... despite lots of customers who don't really demand that third party support."

BlackBerry's management team couldn't do worse if they tried (oh, but WAIT! Ron Louks pretty much admitted they ARE trying hard to do badly with BB10, so there's that.)

[Bbnivende]

Ryan, I agree that most current consumer- owners of new BlackBerry phones during the last Q sought them out rather than being persuaded by their carrier. I seems to me that Classic buyers were wanting a bigger screen and the tool belt. I am presuming that buyers of the Classic most likely owned a BBOS device or the Q10 and were seeking an "improved" version of what they had been using. From comments here, many Passport owners liked the larger keyboard and fantastic screen. In both cases, I feel that the format of the phone was more important to the buyer than the OS. It seems to me, that to want to purchase a BlackBerry means that you want to buy a phone that has a PKB. For some, BB10 is an advantage and for others the OS is a negative factor. BlackBerry does not make a good all touch phone so there is no market for selling BB10 as an OS alternative.


I really do not think that advertising BB10 would have helped. Outside of these pages, most consumers really do not think about how a a phone operates. BB10 has not proven to be an asset. When the two best selling phones in the world have home keys, it kind of tells us that people are not looking for a different approach. The failure of the Amazon phone and the Leap tells us that there is not a viable market for an "Android - hybrid" phone. The market wants an all touch Android or iOS phone ( At least for now anyway). It is not that BB10 phones are bad or that there is no fan base. The problem is that regardless of what BlackBerry does they can not expand sales or make a profit if they continue making BB10 phones.

I agree that BlackBerry has the numbers. It probably tells them that businesses are not replacing their older BB10 phones and BBOS phones with the Classic, Passport or the Leap hence the need for a new approach. I think the numbers probably tell them that the number BB10 phones being used in all markets was dropping rather than expanding. The BB10 platform is just not viable in the consumer market and in the Enterprise market. The trend is downwards and that is a reality.

I am still hopeful that BlackBerry can make it as an Android manufacturer. They need an all touch and Vienna to be viable. Yes there are still millions of BB10 devices in use but many will not buy another BlackBerry regardless of whether it was BB10 or Android. BlackBerry can not make the same mistake as they did when they introduced BB10. They can not assume that they have a guaranteed market. They are going to have to make phones that appeal to a broader audience, They have to be great phones with or without PKB's. It does not matter that they might lose some of their current BB10 user base because they know the numbers and there is no profit in it.

[BBd00d]

its simple...android for the general public, bb10 for govt and large corperations who need and want that security...i am sure the website will only show android, but behind the scenes bb10 will be pushed to govt and large firms

^ THIS

Posted via CB10

[bh7171]

Ryan, I agree that most current consumer- owners of new BlackBerry phones during the last Q sought them out rather than being persuaded by their carrier. I seems to me that Classic buyers were wanting a bigger screen and the tool belt. I am presuming that buyers of the Classic most likely owned a BBOS device or the Q10 and were seeking an "improved" version of what they had been using. From comments here, many Passport owners liked the larger keyboard and fantastic screen. In both cases, I feel that the format of the phone was more important to the buyer than the OS. It seems to me, that to want to purchase a BlackBerry means that you want to buy a phone that has a PKB. For some, BB10 is an advantage and for others the OS is a negative factor. BlackBerry does not make a good all touch phone so there is no market for selling BB10 as an OS alternative.


I really do not think that advertising BB10 would have helped. Outside of these pages, most consumers really do not think about how a a phone operates. BB10 has not proven to be an asset. When the two best selling phones in the world have home keys, it kind of tells us that people are not looking for a different approach. The failure of the Amazon phone and the Leap tells us that there is not a viable market for an "Android - hybrid" phone. The market wants an all touch Android or iOS phone ( At least for now anyway). It is not that BB10 phones are bad or that there is no fan base. The problem is that regardless of what BlackBerry does they can not expand sales or make a profit if they continue making BB10 phones.

I agree that BlackBerry has the numbers. It probably tells them that businesses are not replacing their older BB10 phones and BBOS phones with the Classic, Passport or the Leap hence the need for a new approach. I think the numbers probably tell them that the number BB10 phones being used in all markets was dropping rather than expanding. The BB10 platform is just not viable in the consumer market and in the Enterprise market. The trend is downwards and that is a reality.

I am still hopeful that BlackBerry can make it as an Android manufacturer. They need an all touch and Vienna to be viable. Yes there are still millions of BB10 devices in use but many will not buy another BlackBerry regardless of whether it was BB10 or Android. BlackBerry can not make the same mistake as they did when they introduced BB10. They can not assume that they have a guaranteed market. They are going to have to make phones that appeal to a broader audience, They have to be great phones with or without PKB's. It does not matter that they might lose some of their current BB10 user base because they know the numbers and there is no profit in it.

Have you ever used an all touch Z10 or Z30 running BlackBerry 10? Both are excellent all touch mobile devices with uber efficient swiping gestures and unbeatable VKB's. To me it is quite simple and in one respect (BlackBerry makes assumptions and expects sales) I agree with you. To me their failure to garner more customers will ALWAYS come down to deplorable marketing. The Leaders in mobile device sales are Apple and Samsung. Both market heavily. There is no surprise they are on top.

The newest member....Cobalt Classic

[Bbnivende]

Yes, I am writing this reply on a Z10. You really can not sell a phone today that does not have either the Google Play store or the Apple store. I am talking about enough phones to make a profit. It is like trying to sell a phone with no camera or a car that has virtually no trunk. The Amazon store is a failure and there is no getting away from this problem. You can not say...forget the apps because you will have a better email experience. Any idea of BB10 finding a foothold now is just a dream.

The Android plays may also fail. PKB phones may be dead in the market place. It is their only play right now. Your only hope is if BlackBerry makes some really high priced devices. Low sales high margin.

Posted via CB10

[Old_Mil]

What can we make out of this? Only this year? Or more?
Dual-OS future for niche market?
Android-only future?

Cheers... :-D


(edit: see in light of this

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2016/01/the...nior-director/


�   There's a Crack in the Berry right now...   �

What you can make out of it: we have a bunch of unsold passport and leap inventory that we would like to unload without discounting it. Sorry to say it.