[bradley_b]

Yup, BB10 is dead.

[PlayBook UK]

It is indeed PlayBook deja vu moment...BlackBerry strung its fans once with PlayBook uncertainty, it is about to do the same again with BB10 uncertainty. I still remember vividly how hopeful the community was regarding BB10 coming to PlayBook and then finally Thorsten dropped the atomic bomb and the fury...

I remember the day when Thorsten announced no BB10 there was a mini uproar in the forums, then someone started a thread...'now the PlayBook is dead, what Tablet will you be getting'...and CrackBerry highlighted that thread, but not the petition. They said BlackBerry must move on..will they say the same about BB10?

PlayBook UK Channel C001CB4A1

[lesarmitage]

I personally don't think the future is bleak at all; not at all.

Why is because I presume the form-factor would stay the same; a quality product with a brilliant keyboard. What would be deal-breaker disaster would be if the Blackberry were to change moving the iconic phone further to the trash can of a copy pretense of the iPhone and Galaxy|Note shed. No I see things in the positive light. Give me my BB PP with the google stuff well; as well!.

What is stupid is the announcement and leaks on the matter; hardware sales will now plummet! Definitely; and that doesn't help anyone. If it's going to happen and it will then send me some android software updates now then I may espouse more of the Blackberry.

[ljfong]

I remember the day when Thorsten announced no BB10 there was a mini uproar in the forums, then someone started a thread...'now the PlayBook is dead, what Tablet will you be getting'...and CrackBerry highlighted that thread, but not the petition. They said BlackBerry must move on..will they say the same about BB10?

PlayBook UK Channel C001CB4A1

Regardless of how angry the fans will be, if ultimately that is what the fate of BB10 will be then that will be the fate unless the fans are also influential shareholders of the company. Considering the abject failure of BB10 in the market, it is hard to see how BlackBerry can continue pouring R&D money into BB10 development.

[cathulu15]

All this doom and gloom. How many engineers does it take to develop, update and maintain an OS? Chen said 10m phones. But say they sell 5m phones and $10 per phone goes to the OS. That is $50m which is well over a hundred engineers. Sounds enough to me.

Maybe I got my head in the sand. I bought the PlayBook and while disappointed it never got BB10, I was not feeling anguished and betrayed like some. I can't believe the response some felt.

If I am wrong about believing in BB10, I won't feel anything but some disappointment and will probably move on to try the BlackBerry Android, or a Windows phone.

 Z30 

[southlander]

Leaks are fun for us. But certainly not good for BlackBerry.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[mmmac]

BB10 is dead... deal with it! Like OS/2 and beta, a potentially superior technology will be shelved because of the populous!

Posted via CB10

[Witmen]

I feel bad for the people who spent their money on the devices, but what do you all realistically expect? BB10 is, was and always has been a commercial failure. Look at the situation from BlackBerry's perspective and ask yourself how much more resources should be thrown away on BB10? Nothing will miraculously cause iOS and Android to disappear overnight and as long as that's the case, BB10 will continue performing as it has been. They've got to cut their losses at some point and move on or we won't be seeing any hardware from BlackBerry again and that would be a true shame.

[Witmen]

Unless we get enough increased interest in BlackBerry by the regular consumer.

Which i think could happen as people wake up to the idea being spied upon by your phone isnt mandatory.

People will give up their privacy for ... for their PHONE(!), but, what if they find out they can have their phone and have their privacy too.

I know that's only to some extent, especially now with android firmly glued into the picture, which i for one am not too crazy about.

The future looks BLACK .... sort of ...

BlackBerry spies on its users in much the same way other platforms do. Read their terms of service agreement. They fully admit to collecting, storing and sharing personal data from you such as your real time location, your contacts, your installed apps, your calendar events and even the contents of your personal messages among many other things. Said collected data can be shared with "third parties" including advertisers (those BBM ads are targeted after all) and government agencies without any further notice being given to you.

All smartphones lessen your privacy. You're a fool if you think otherwise.

[TheAuthority]

BlackBerry spies on its users in much the same way other platforms do. Read their terms of service agreement. They fully admit to collecting, storing and sharing personal data from you such as your real time location, your contacts, your installed apps, your calendar events and even the contents of your personal messages among many other things. Said collected data can be shared with "third parties" including advertisers (those BBM ads are targeted after all) and government agencies without any further notice being given to you.

Nevertheless, unlike Google's, BlackBerry's entire business model isn't based on spying on its users.

[Witmen]

Nevertheless, unlike Google's, BlackBerry's entire business model isn't based on spying on its users.

So because BlackBerry wasn't as smart as Google, their spying is OK but Google's isn't? I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.

BlackBerry not being as good at making profit from their users data as Google is doesn't change the fact that BlackBerry IS trying to make a profit from that data.

At least with Google, we get a chance to opt out of most of their data collecting. Google also lets you view the data they have collected from you and will allow you to delete that data at anytime (things i have done on my Google account). BlackBerry doesn't do any of those things. They just collect the data, store it and then share it as they deem fit. You have no chance of viewing, using or deleting any of that data.

I wish BlackBerry gave us those same options as Google does.

[anon(6038817)]

Where are the BlackBerry-supported native BB10 app updates for apps like Facebook or Twitter? And didn't they just lay off most of their BB10 team?

For me, the writing is on the wall. They are in a holding pattern with BB10, waiting to see how their Android OS will do.

If the Android-based BlackBerry does well - and I think it will sell better than any BB10 phone, including the Z10 - I believe BlackBerry will begin phasing out BB10 support over 2-3 years.

If the Android-based BlackBerry is a flop, they will have to ramp up BB10 again, but I don't see that happening.

Posted from my Q5 via CB10

[anon(6038817)]

So because BlackBerry wasn't as smart as Google, their spying is OK but Google's isn't? I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.

BlackBerry not being as good at making profit from their users data as Google is doesn't change the fact that BlackBerry IS trying to make a profit from that data.

At least with Google, we get a chance to opt out of most of their data collecting. Google also lets you view the data they have collected from you and will allow you to delete that data at anytime (things i have done on my Google account). BlackBerry doesn't do any of those things. They just collect the data, store it and then share it as they deem fit. You have no chance of viewing, using or deleting any of that data.

I wish BlackBerry gave us those same options as Google does.

Google keeps every shred of information it has ever collected about you. Forever. The act of "deleting" it from your account simply makes it disappear for you, but it does not wipe it from their servers.

They give you the illusion of control.

Google Play Services is, first and foremost, a data-mining platform. No matter how many privacy settings you change or things you opt-out of, some data is still being collected about you.

That is how they provide their "products and services" for cheap or free. Your data is the real product. That is the price you willingly pay every moment of every day you use anything affiliated with Alphabet, Inc.

BlackBerry may collect some data, but their business model does not revolve around monetizing that data. Do I trust them completely? Of course not. It is foolish to trust any company completely with your data. But I do trust them far more than the likes of Google, Apple, Microsoft, or Facebook.

Posted from my Q5 via CB10

[Witmen]

Google keeps every shred of information it has ever collected about you. Forever. The act of "deleting" it from your account simply makes it disappear for you, but it does not wipe it from their servers.

They give you the illusion of control.

Google Play Services is, first and foremost, a data-mining platform. No matter how many privacy settings you change or things you opt-out of, some data is still being collected about you.

That is how they provide their "products and services" for cheap or free. Your data is the real product. That is the price you willingly pay every moment of every day you use anything affiliated with Alphabet, Inc.

BlackBerry may collect some data, but their business model does not revolve around monetizing that data. Do I trust them completely? Of course not. It is foolish to trust any company completely with your data. But I do trust them far more than the likes of Google, Apple, Microsoft, or Facebook.

Posted from my Q5 via CB10

Do you have proof that they keep your data forever and that deleting the data does nothing?

[JohnGrey]

...unless the fans are also influential shareholders of the company...

This won't happen for the very simple reason that influential shareholders, i.e. holders of voting shares, do not generally get to be in that position by being emotion-driven. They don't see BBRY as a company with a long and arguably iconic history. They see it as an entity where dollars go in and dollars come out, and their only goal is make the latter be a certain multiple over the former. The shareholders do not care so very much about the benefits of BB10, and I'll be the first to admit that there are loads. They see 1.2% marketshare, with probable decline to sub-1% within two fiscal quarters, and that is an unacceptable situation for anyone that wants to make money with BBRY, when presently hardware sales account for 40% of revenues.

[TheAuthority]

So because BlackBerry wasn't as smart as Google, their spying is OK but Google's isn't? I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.

BlackBerry not being as good at making profit from their users data as Google is doesn't change the fact that BlackBerry IS trying to make a profit from that data.

Great job helping me make my point by introducing how much one company makes spying on its users versus how much another makes doing (supposedly) the same. I was indeed referring to the extent one company does it versus the extent that another company does it. I'll concede that Google does it "better" and makes infinitely more money with it because (drum roll) ... Its entire business model is based on it! Spying on its users! Yay! Go, Google!

Do you have proof that they keep your data forever and that deleting the data does nothing?

Google keeps every shred of information it has ever collected about you. Forever. The act of "deleting" it from your account simply makes it disappear for you, but it does not wipe it from their servers.

They give you the illusion of control.

Google Play Services is, first and foremost, a data-mining platform. No matter how many privacy settings you change or things you opt-out of, some data is still being collected about you.

That is how they provide their "products and services" for cheap or free. Your data is the real product. That is the price you willingly pay every moment of every day you use anything affiliated with Alphabet, Inc.

BlackBerry may collect some data, but their business model does not revolve around monetizing that data. Do I trust them completely? Of course not. It is foolish to trust any company completely with your data. But I do trust them far more than the likes of Google, Apple, Microsoft, or Facebook.

Posted from my Q5 via CB10

He probably paid $19.99 and thought Ashley Madison "deleted" his profile.

[Witmen]

Great job helping me make my point by introducing how much one company makes spying on its users versus how much another makes doing (supposedly) the same. I was indeed referring to the extent one company does it versus the extent that another company does it. I'll concede that Google does it "better" and makes infinitely more money with it because (drum roll) ... Its entire business model is based on it! Spying on its users! Yay! Go, Google!

Again, how does that change the fact that BlackBerry does it too? It doesn't.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe Google makes more money at doing it because they have far more users than BlackBerry has? That might have something to do with it. Wouldn't it? I mean Android alone has a billion users. BlackBerry has a tiny fraction of that. Yea, maybe that has something to do with why Google makes more money at it.

But like I've already said. You're a fool if you think your privacy is protected on any smartphone. Don't believe me? Ask the 100 or so people who were charged in operation carwash after their BlackBerry devices spied on them. Or maybe ask those London rioters who were charged after BBM was used to track them down. Or maybe ask the Craigslist killer about privacy. Oh wait you can't ask him, he killed himself after his BlackBerry Storm lead cops directly to him.

My point is, all smartphones can spy on their users.

[chickenman18]

Great job helping me make my point by introducing how much one company makes spying on its users versus how much another makes doing (supposedly) the same. I was indeed referring to the extent one company does it versus the extent that another company does it. I'll concede that Google does it "better" and makes infinitely more money with it because (drum roll) ... Its entire business model is based on it! Spying on its users! Yay! Go, Google!

Help me understand. .. Both companies are data mining. They both share your data. Google is bad because it sells it. BlackBerry is good because it gives it away for free?
How noble of BlackBerry to do that.
So Google is able to monetize it with its business model. I don't believe that Google is hiding the fact that they are data mining. If you fill out a government census form, the government sells that data as well. It's also what they use to design infrastructure or social programs.
If you use a credit card, banks will track your location as a means to ensure that your card isn't used for credit card fraud as well.
I don't buy the whole Google data mining is bad- everyone else data mining is good argument.. it's ridiculous.



He probably paid $19.99 and thought Ashley Madison "deleted" his profile.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[to boldly go]

Do you have proof that they keep your data forever and that deleting the data does nothing?

I simply can say there are literally (count them!) HUNDREDS of unwanted apps installed that can not be deleted, or disabled, or even if you CAN disable some it is only disabled for a split second so what good is that? SOME will let you keep them disabled, others, only until you restart your phone. Read the permissions demands on all these apps, they not only monitor your every move, they also commandeer your settings and turn on your microphone and snap pictures from your front facing camera whenever they want to.

If you dont know this stuff, you (a) never even looked at your android running apps, and/or, (b) you havent even had a BlackBerry. Unless of course you know how to run a rooted android, which i was wishing for until i discovered BlackBerry in spite of my carrier.

I believe Blackberry's commitment to privacy and security are what is causing it to fail. Your Carrier (if it is ATnT, anyway!) NEEDS and WANTS this data collection for THEIR profit margin. How is data marketed and sold if it isnt collected? I also believe BlackBerry is being pressured real hard to back off from letting the BlackBerry be available to the smelly masses who deserve to be tracked and controlled (tracking is a huge component of gaining control).

On top of being more secure, BlackBerrys just run better. The 'old' Z10 runs just like a snazzy new phone with the updated OS. The 'cheapo' Q5 is a breezy reliable little (good-looking!) beast. The Z30 is STILL the sweetest touch-screen phone in the Universe. The 9360 is still a little powerhouse pocket-sized phone that i will never get tired of using because of its sweet size.

BlackBerrys would be picked up alot more by people who want a simple, functional phone for the price of a cr@ppy flip phone, how i wish i knew when i bought that first 'dumb phone' what i could have done instead.

BlackBerry DOES respect your privacy, but it gives you the right to let it go with those android apps you need so badly.

[Witmen]

I simply can say there are literally (count them!) HUNDREDS of unwanted apps installed that can not be deleted, or disabled, or even if you CAN disable some it is only disabled for a split second so what good is that? SOME will let you keep them disabled, others, only until you restart your phone. Read the permissions demands on all these apps, they not only monitor your every move, they also commandeer your settings and turn on your microphone and snap pictures from your front facing camera whenever they want to.

If you dont know this stuff, you (a) never even looked at your android running apps, and/or, (b) you havent even had a BlackBerry. Unless of course you know how to run a rooted android, which i was wishing for until i discovered BlackBerry in spite of my carrier.

I believe Blackberry's commitment to privacy and security are what is causing it to fail. Your Carrier (if it is ATnT, anyway!) NEEDS and WANTS this data collection for THEIR profit margin. How is data marketed and sold if it isnt collected? I also believe BlackBerry is being pressured real hard to back off from letting the BlackBerry be available to the smelly masses who deserve to be tracked and controlled (tracking is a huge component of gaining control).

On top of being more secure, BlackBerrys just run better. The 'old' Z10 runs just like a snazzy new phone with the updated OS. The 'cheapo' Q5 is a breezy reliable little (good-looking!) beast. The Z30 is STILL the sweetest touch-screen phone in the Universe. The 9360 is still a little powerhouse pocket-sized phone that i will never get tired of using because of its sweet size.

BlackBerrys would be picked up alot more by people who want a simple, functional phone for the price of a cr@ppy flip phone, how i wish i knew when i bought that first 'dumb phone' what i could have done instead.

BlackBerry DOES respect your privacy, but it gives you the right to let it go with those android apps you need so badly.

Take no offense to this, but you sound like someone who's only experience with Android is with using a Samsung Galaxy S2 or some other form of Samsung Galaxy device.

None of my Android devices have any of the problems you listed.

Let me tell ya, there isn't a single unwanted, undeletable app on any of my Android devices. Count em! Not a single one. Actually, if you want to be technical, there are no unwanted, undeletable junk apps in Android period. Buy an actual pure Android device like a Nexus and then count how many of those apps there are.

Also, I have had full control over app permissions straight out of the box with my Android phone of choice. And to be perfectly honest, my current Android phone is by far the best performing phone I've ever owned. I have a OnePlus One. It never misses a beat, silky smooth at all times. It never runs hot. It just works. I don't know, I can't find anything to complain about. The kicker is it was dirt cheap for the hardware it has.

Maybe you need to try some different Android devices. They certainly aren't all created equally, and things have changed alot since the Gingerbread days.

About your privacy comments, I just laughed. Do you honestly think there is pressure to keep BlackBerry devices out of the hands of criminals?

Come on, you can't honestly believe that. Do you?

BlackBerry has a long standing record of working with governments to catch criminals. Look at Brazil! That just happened! BlackBerry even tells you that they can and will share your data with government agencies in their TOS agreements.

[southlander]

BlackBerry may collect some data, but their business model does not revolve around monetizing that data.

Only because they can't do it all that well compared to bigger players. They are a public company with a responsibility to shareholders. You can bet they will take every high margin dollar they can make from advertising.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[JohnGrey]

Only because they can't do it all that well compared to bigger players. They are a public company with a responsibility to shareholders. You can bet they will take every high margin dollar they can make from advertising.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

More accurately they lack the infrastructure to do it. Data mining of any value requires massive data collection and analytics. Google had that in place already for its search engine which is why they're the best at it.

[rkakkar]

I recently bought a passport by paying an arm and leg for it.

I absolutely love it.

And then I saw this thread.

If I'm stuck with an OS with no plans for development, should I sell the Passport while I might still get a better price as compared to when they officially announce?

Are they planning this "Android Port" for the Passport too or only full-touch BB devices?

I love the Passport, but if it's a sinking ship, it might be better to bail sooner!

[anon(6038817)]

Do you have proof that they keep your data forever and that deleting the data does nothing?

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...-off-bad-guys/

Posted from my Q5 via CB10

[BoldMaverick]

Again, how does that change the fact that BlackBerry does it too? It doesn't.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe Google makes more money at doing it because they have far more users than BlackBerry has? That might have something to do with it. Wouldn't it? I mean Android alone has a billion users. BlackBerry has a tiny fraction of that. Yea, maybe that has something to do with why Google makes more money at it.

But like I've already said. You're a fool if you think your privacy is protected on any smartphone. Don't believe me? Ask the 100 or so people who were charged in operation carwash after their BlackBerry devices spied on them. Or maybe ask those London rioters who were charged after BBM was used to track them down. Or maybe ask the Craigslist killer about privacy. Oh wait you can't ask him, he killed himself after his BlackBerry Storm lead cops directly to him.

My point is, all smartphones can spy on their users.

I'm seeing some interesting things for me to research further in your comments. "Operation Carwash," the London rioters, the "Craigslist killer."

I don't know the degree to which their BlackBerry devices were used in tracking them. Government and law enforcement agencies can track through your carrier and other means without regard to the kind of phone a person has. So, it will be interesting to research to see how they accomplished their tracking.

However, I'm curious about your other assertion; that Google and BlackBerry data collection are equal. While it has been a while since I have read my terms and conditions, I remember reading BlackBerry's documents and thinking, "This seems similar to how Google, Facebook, Yahoo, Microsoft, etc. does it." However, it didn't seem as extensive or as personalized, from what I can remember.

So, I'm wondering, where are your links and proof that because one company engages in "data collection" and another company engages in "data collection," that the way they engage in "data collection" is exactly the same? Because in my mind, the parent who "hits" the child and the attacker who "hits" the person assaulted, robbed, etc. are not "hitting" in the same way.

I'd like to see, read, and learn more about this, to understand the similarities and differences, so as to inform some of my future decision-making. Vague statements like, "how does that change the fact that BlackBerry does it too? It doesn't" and "Did you ever stop to think that maybe Google makes more money at doing it because they have far more users than BlackBerry has?", assume B and G are the same, but don't give me the details I'd like to understand.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 Posted via CB10 on my Q10 