[bb10adopter111]

Apple makes money on hardware. And they still sell quite a few wifi only iPads. and they make money with apps and services, but they are probably the exception as they seem to be able to make money everywhere.

Yes, but Apple has monopoly pricing power for people who like their OS and ecosystem, so they get paid some of the money for their app store via hardware, in effect. If a cheaper provider had their app store and OS, their hardware profits would decline quickly.

[SteinwayTransitCorp]

What a load of crap. Apple's #1 and smart advantage over BlackBerry 10, Windows and Android is their autonomy to release updates. Everyone else waits for these mysterious BS carrier releases. I really hope you don't believe BlackBerry delayed releases and updates on BlackBerry 10. Or Android OEM's delay updates and security patches. The carriers here in the US have always blown on anyone but Apple.

Your mixing and miss matching. As a corporate user we had info the public does not see. The delays we're because of the way some updates would cause issues with the whole system, neither company sits back and plots to delay updates. I'm sure AT&T's business model was not to up set the consumer. The conspiracy theories always make me smile. Big Bad Phone companies.....

[SteinwayTransitCorp]

Yes, but Apple has monopoly pricing power for people who like their OS and ecosystem, so they get paid some of the money for their app store via hardware, in effect. If a cheaper provider had their app store and OS, their hardware profits would decline quickly.

What really killed BlackBerry was also just plain arrogance. The world was changing fast and when they had the opportunity they blew it plain and simple. I can remember sitting down with our company rep from BlackBerry and talking about the new I phone. Being told it was just a toy. Well you know the rest, the world is littered with dead companies/products that new better.

[Chuck Finley69]

Apple makes money on hardware. And they still sell quite a few wifi only iPads. and they make money with apps and services, but they are probably the exception as they seem to be able to make money everywhere.

Mobile hardware only becomes profitable with enormous scale. The Android/iOS ecosystems along with other services developed from OEM level are the profits long before hardware scale is and if ever achieved. That includes Apple from iTunes to iPod to iPhone and beyond for instance.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Most forget that android and iOS were also a mess when first released. PalmOS was too, however it was not a phone on first release.

Nothing is perfect upon first release, and is always subject to refinement later on.

From my BlackBerry Q5 on Freedom Mobile 3G HSPA+

Nobody has forgotten that.... but in 2013 why should people have to deal with those early market conditions?

iOS and Android weren't perfect in 2007/2008, but there was nothing better.... even half finished they were as good or better than the other OSs of the day. So people put up with not so perfect software or limited features. Have to remember that most consumers really missed most all of that. By the time they started really buying in 2011, iOS and Android were "stable", by 2013 they were very usable.

The along comes BB10.... sorry but you don't introduce a beta product in a mature market and expect that market "give it time" to get better....

[bb10adopter111]

Nobody has forgotten that.... but in 2013 why should people have to deal with those early market conditions?

iOS and Android weren't perfect in 2007/2008, but there was nothing better.... even half finished they were as good or better than the other OSs of the day. So people put up with not so perfect software or limited features. Have to remember that most consumers really missed most all of that. By the time they started really buying in 2011, iOS and Android were "stable", by 2013 they were very usable.

The along comes BB10.... sorry but you don't introduce a beta product in a mature market and expect that market "give it time" to get better....

RIM/BB had no idea what it was doing in the consumer space in 2013. It was a complete train wreck. But, at the design level, some excellent work had been done re-imagining traditional BlackBerry enterprise work flows and creating a compelling user experience for business communications. I'm not suggesting that is a substitute for a viable business plan, but it's what I have been benefitting from for almost 7 years!

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

[app_Developer]

Nobody has forgotten that.... but in 2013 why should people have to deal with those early market conditions?

iOS and Android weren't perfect in 2007/2008, but there was nothing better.... even half finished they were as good or better than the other OSs of the day. So people put up with not so perfect software or limited features. Have to remember that most consumers really missed most all of that. By the time they started really buying in 2011, iOS and Android were "stable", by 2013 they were very usable.

The along comes BB10.... sorry but you don't introduce a beta product in a mature market and expect that market "give it time" to get better....

That's right. And in 2008 as we all downloaded the new iPhone SDK at Moscone that day, Apple had very few users. The CEO of the company I worked for at the time said I was wasting time because most people used BB and so if I wanted to build apps I should do it for BBOS. What he missed is that many of us saw that the iPhone SDK would allow us to make a whole new class of apps that the world hadn't seen yet. Apple wasn't catching up with anyone, they were moving the industry into entirely new ground in 2008. So many of us took the bet that Apple, once it was available on more than one carrier and more than one country, would have a lot more users than the few hundred thousand they had that day.

That CEO's company now has fewer than 30 people. Maybe 20 now.