[ibpluto]

Here is a start to the debate you requested.

BB10 excels in these areas:
-Native typing Agreed, but means nothing since Android is not bound to a single native keyboard. No 3rd party app required, and even if you get the swift key its a not as robust as the new BB10, which is essentially what BB10 had as a starting point then added to it.
-Browsing Reviews say otherwise. At best it's on par, at worst it is below average. at worst on par, no way below. Highest compliance, very fast, Flash support, quick render. Who's is better? Please
-Efficiency of use (Flow) Your opinion, valid but not shared by everyone. Fair, but its similar to my PB, which I prefer over iPad.
-Multi tasking Different != better. Its Micro Kernal, its true Multi Tasking
-Display quality Higher PPI, yes. Better quality, no. Look at reviews comparing screens, colour reproduction and brightness. Not all, some review favourable.
-Centralized messaging (Hub) It's a universal inbox at its heart. Nothing new, just the method to access it is new. It also has some jarring behaviour when viewing multiple notifications and is extremely inefficient in dealing with organizing and deleting messages. Not had a chance to prove or disprove, so can't say. Concept of Hub is very nice, and inline with the way someone who deals with a tremendous amount of throughput works
-Baked in social media messaging (Hub) Every OS offers this, no advantage over Android, a bit better than iOS. By admission better than iOS
-Camera features (Time shift) No panorama, stupid method of focusing. Time shift is cool, but you can't just ignore the downsides. Fair, but don't ignore upside
-One handed use I've never had a problem using any phone with one hand. Again, only an opinion. I have, including the iPhone. Swipe up on words is perfect, width is ideal. Address bar at bottom of browser another plus for one hansded use, most gesture funtionality (in/out/switch), all starts from bottom. All lends itself to one handed use.

It is on par in the following areas:

-General speed and fluidity Give or take, agree. I would say worse than iOS, equal to most Android devices. Not sure how any one can differentiate between any of the devices, they are all smooth.
-General overall looks Agree, it doesn't stand out or fall behind in looks Yay, we agree
-Battery life Battery life has been poor in reviews. Indicated as average to fair. Also noted that the BB10 has a large anount of initial sync activity for tyhe first while (First few days), battery life said to improve beyond this. Its been already noted its better than Droid, and on par with iOS, Battery is not a crutch, its on par. Plus it has a removable cover, so a spare battery for heavy users is always an option.
-Feel in the hands No even a real category...come on seriously, quality of feel? Its like having a leather wrapped steering wheel, or commenting on the fit and finish of a car. This is staright usp a metric. Z10 is a qulaity built peice

your court

[mikeo007]

Attainable goal too. I'm sure there are a lot of folks like me that left BlackBerry but have always left the door open to return. If the new BB10 95% of the current BB users and wins back 10% of those who left for other devices then BlackBerry is on the road to success.

Attainable goal...Err...think about those numbers for a second. There have been over a billion Android devices sold, and over a 1/4 billion iPhones sold. Assuming HALF of them are still in use, you think that BlackBerry is gaining 62.5 million customers with BB10...come on.

[mikeo007]

your court

Rather than making this messy by quoting your quotes of my quotes quoting you, I'm going to make it simple. We disagree on a lot of these points, and you're inserting your opinion into a lot of your "facts". Instead, I'm going to take your original list and arrange it how it should actually be arranged judging by reviews as well as your own input:

Z10 is on par with others in:
-Typing
-Browsing
-Efficiency of use
-Multi tasking
-Display quality
-Centralized messaging
-Baked in social media messaging
-Camera features
-One handed use
-General speed and fluidity
-General overall looks
-Battery life
-Feel in the hands

[ddlax22]

Can you explain how BB 10 is the most advanced OS out there please. For all the love of QNX, it is a phone. Just another phone.

http://m.crackberry.com/history-qnx-and-it�s-implementation-blackberry-10

This is how its the most advanced os out there ignore those who are giving you those points(above).they're referring to the feel of the device itself and the ui. This is why is truely the most advanced os out there and you can't say that the rtos qnx microkernel isn't. Sorry but we win this one. Take the time to read it completely.

[MartyMcfly]

I think the BGR review was harsh, however the other reviews (including crackberry's) was fair IMO. The tech community has been waiting 2 years for this device, not to mention all the hype created by management ie "Ali the competition" the constant bragging about thousand upon thousand of apps created (I was hoping for high quality apps). I think BB10 will be a viable third option, but it has awhile to go before it dethrones iOS/android. Hopefully Rimm can get all the good 3rd party developers on board.

[ddlax22]

I think the BGR review was harsh, however the other reviews (including crackberry's) was fair IMO. The tech community has been waiting 2 years for this device, not to mention all the hype created by management ie "Ali the competition" the constant bragging about thousand upon thousand of apps created (I was hoping for high quality apps). I think BB10 will be a viable third option, but it has awhile to go before it dethrones iOS/android. Hopefully Rimm can get all the good 3rd party developers on board.

I mean it was a bgr review..
But I agree overall and I hope it reaches the heights we all believed was possible.

[TheMarco]

Too much hype => inevitable disappointment. Even I am disappointed in a few things (reportedly crappy battery life, late US release, less major apps than I was hoping for). The same thing happened with webOS. Palm was the sensation (best of show) on CES but when the devices hit the market it became clear that it was overhyped. That said, it's all in the eye of the beholder of course. I for one think Android is the worst OS of all four major ones available right now (WP8, BB10, iOS and Android) but yet it's selling like hotcakes. Probably because the extremely powerful hardware somehow makes up for the shoddy user experience. And also because it caters to the bottom end of the market with cheap phones.

I believe that when RIM manages to sell enough phones to get the word-of-mouth thing going, BB10 can succeed. And of course in the meanwhile iron out the issues I listed earlier. I'm convinced that a lot of people will find it pretty darn cool if they manage to get exposed to it through someone they know who owns one and has them play with it for a bit.

[Mr.Willie]

I think the big problem is people are confusing glorified bloggers with legitimate journalist. They are not.

Can you explain how BB 10 is the most advanced OS out there please. For all the love of QNX, it is a phone. Just another phone.

Someone else already handled part 1 of your statement, I'll take part 2. Incorrect, it is a personal digital assistant, it is a pocket PC, it is a device people use to streamline their life and day to day activities. It just so happens to also make phone calls.

[masterscarhead1]

http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...5/#post7914180
Check out this article. Pretty awesome in my opinion

[Balti43]

Bad press, good press, give me a z10 plz

[jthep]

The battery life can in all likelihood be improved with software updates over time. Remember the Playbook? When it first came out the battery seemed to drain a lot, now if it goes into a sleep mode it is as efficient as anything out there and the battery while idle seems to last way longer.

The media is unfairly negative towards this platform, I mean honestly how long did any of them get to play around with it before writing a review? Meanwhile every year Apple can add an incremental feature no one really uses and it is described as "revolutionary"? Android has been a mess since its inception, but is a media darling. BB10 is not even out yet, no one used it in real world situations but its no good? When my contract is up, I want to get a BB10 device...

[rim_investor]

Some have been complaining about the cost $149 to $199 on contract. $150 is peanuts...I can spend that on a night out. The Z10 will save you $000's in time. Get REAL bear analysts and skeptics. To call it DOA is simply stupid. If people like the phone the word will spread. The short sellers are the one's trying to gain here. There is no such thing as a duopoly in technology...things change too fast. Pretty good work by BB/RIM given they have a fraction of the resources of Apple, Samsung and Google. CONGRATULATIONS!!!

[polytope]

Android has been a mess since its inception, but is a media darling. BB10 is not even out yet, no one used it in real world situations but its no good? When my contract is up, I want to get a BB10 device...

So true. Google has great ideas. But Android always seems to me quite unfinished.

[Villain]

WP8 is missing a ton of features/apps/support (even from Microsoft) to claim anything over BB10 besides the Lumia 920 being able to take good pictures when hiding im a closet.

both wp8 & bb10 are new to the market and hopefully they drive the industry and evolve.

this isn't a biased bb post either... I'm a WP8 user not a BB user

[ibpluto]

Rather than making this messy by quoting your quotes of my quotes quoting you, I'm going to make it simple. We disagree on a lot of these points, and you're inserting your opinion into a lot of your "facts". Instead, I'm going to take your original list and arrange it how it should actually be arranged judging by reviews as well as your own input:

Z10 is on par with others in:
-Typing
-Browsing
-Efficiency of use
-Multi tasking
-Display quality
-Centralized messaging
-Baked in social media messaging
-Camera features
-One handed use
-General speed and fluidity
-General overall looks
-Battery life
-Feel in the hands

It is more then on par for many of those items.

[mikeo007]

It is more then on par for many of those items.

Maybe in your opinion. Not in my opinion or the opinions of most reviewers.

[SPO10Kaloy]

I totally agree on this. These press people keeps complaining & never appreciate what a certain company do. BlackBerry innovates & they started from scratch both hardware & software. If they don't like the end result of what BB did then stick with what they like. For me, i respect if you dont like BB but please respect what other people want & needs.

[312Lorden]

faster than Lindsey Loan can drain a forty?

_______

LOL.

[312Lorden]

I found many of the reviews to be balanced. In many cases, good constructive criticism that RIM should take and address. Gellar from BGR I think was the worst. If the Z10 could walk on water Gellar would just complain that it didn't swim.

_______

LOL.

[312Lorden]

[QUOTE=MartyMcfly;7914123I think BB10 will be a viable third option, but it has awhile to go before it dethrones iOS/android. Hopefully Rimm can get all the good 3rd party developers on board.[/QUOTE]
_____

It won't dethrone iOS or Android because the two have had such a good headstart. But BBRY will find its own niche and survive. Who cares if iPhone or Android phones sell gazillions? If a guy is satisfied with BB10 that's all that counts. Call it smugness. So be it.

[costas1966]

Maybe in your opinion. Not in my opinion or the opinions of most reviewers.

The biggest problem is that a review is a personal evaluation. Nothing more. Your review of a device is no more or less valid than
mine, or someone else's. There are no "experts". Period. We tend to take "expert" opinions and attempt to cement them as facts.

Hail the internet.

IMO.....BB10 IS revolutionary, because it represents an innovative and progressive approach to create a platform that forms a foundation that
can be BUILT upon....not UPDATED. There's a difference. Apple hasn't done this. Android hasn't done this. BB10 has already been proven to
perform better than the competition in many areas....features that are baked into the OS, and not dependent on apps. This was a huge risk for
RIM, and I think it's paid off. The platform will offer true integration, multitasking, and future potential over the competition.

This IS a game-changer...give it 6 months...then we'll chat again.

[FSeverino]

how about we all tell each other THE TRUTH on tuesday

[costas1966]

how about we all tell each other THE TRUTH on tuesday

Hahahahaha.....YUP! I don't get mine for another week after that, but I'll be adding my "expert review" to the mix!

[FSeverino]

Hahahahaha.....YUP! I don't get mine for another week after that, but I'll be adding my "expert review" to the mix!

i think thats the only way we will know.

personally i came here when i heard about the pb sale and saw a lot of great info, but all the other sites said it sucked. I bought one... best choice I have ever made. I hope my Z10 can replace that choice!

[.pinkberry]

BB10 obviously isn't going to dominate the market share right off the bat from this launch, but I think it is safe to say that they will gain back some market share. But what I've noticed is that, for a year now, so many people have been saying things like "RIM is dead" and Blackberry 10 is "too little too late", and they don't want to admit that they're wrong. I know that if I was constantly bashing a company and stating their death as a fact, I would be embarrassed to admit that I was wrong if things did turn around. All they can do now is stick to their guns and be consistent in their "reviews".

I heard from a friend who had several business professors talk about Blackberry in university classes. One in particular said that they're "too little too late" and they will be bankrupt in a few years... AND THEN OPENLY ADMITTED THAT HE HASN'T EVEN SEEN THE NEW PHONES.