[Harry_III_UK]

I saw a thread here that got me wondering about one of the benefits of BlackBerry - data compression.

1) Is a BB phone FASTER than the others because it compresses the data, and compressed data = smaller amount of packets = less data to send = gets to the device faster?

OR

2) Is a BB phone SLOWER than the others because the time taken to compress the data when sent and received outweighs the advantages of the time saved by transmitting less data?

3) For those of you who have had both a BB and an iPhone / Android etc - have you noticed a difference in the amount of data you are using each month between the various devices (assuming you're using them for roughly the same things)?

4) Does any other device compress data the way that BB does?

I found the Telus data calculator REALLY good - I hadn't seen anything like it before and for me, this would be a huge reason to buy a BB over a different device.

I'm surprised RIM don't show a version of this (with the usual YMMV disclaimers) on their home page.

I'm also surprised it wasn't the first thing the salesperson mentioned when I was asking about a 9900 - however they DID mention it which is a good thing!

TELUS data calculator

The thread was:

http://forums.crackberry.com/general...-ratio-712056/

Thanks,

Harry

[belfastdispatcher]

There is no other, only BB compresses data. I believe it 4 to 1 for emails, 2 to 1 for browsing but a BB also caches a lot of data for off line use.

For example you load a web page, turn off your signal and reload the page again, you'll be able to view it with no connection.

[Roo Zilla]

As they say, "there's an app for that." For iPhone, you have your choice of Snappli or Onavo. They have Onavo for Android too, and perhaps other apps, but I'm not sure. The way it works is that it installs a profile, so it works in the background, you never see it if you don't want to. You can select the level of compression you desire, in addition to whether you want your emails compressed or not. It also keeps track of your data usage and data saved. The default is to turn off compression when on WiFi, but if you want it compressed all the time, you can have it set that way too.

As for performance.... it depends. For example, you won't notice any performance degradation in emails if the emails are data only. Sometimes, pages are slower to load, sometimes, it seems faster. To be honest, it's hard to tell. With the newest phones, if you're on LTE, the biggest barrier to performance is probably Javascript, which basically means you want a faster processor.

[gymwarner]

I used a lot more data when I briefly switched to Android. BB I never get anywhere near my allowance. I do use WIFI a fair amount but no more than I did when I used ANdroid.

Its a cool feature but sometimes it can be a smidge slower.

[belfastdispatcher]

It's a bit of a strange one, it does make it a bit slower on fast networks but at the same time compression makes it faster on slow networks, gprs/edge

[Alex_Hong]

It's a bit of a strange one, it does make it a bit slower on fast networks but at the same time compression makes it faster on slow networks, gprs/edge

I kinda agree with this statement. For example, a Sony Ericsson M600i is excruciatingly slow on GPRS, whereas a Curve 8900 is noticeably faster in my experience. But on 3G network, It does seem to be slightly slower. But perhaps that could just be the browser's limitation, not the speed. Nonetheless, i don't think there's a huge difference.

I definitely use more data on other platforms, no matter Android, iOS, or WP. I browse a lot for news, so having compression does help.

But if my memory serves me, Windows Phone 8 introduced "Data Sense" which the carriers have to install on their side too. It will compress web browsing data and manage data usage. It touted to average 45% compression i think. Then on Nokia Lumia Windows Phone, they have a beta app "Xpress" which will route data through Nokia's server and compresses as well.

[belfastdispatcher]

As they say, "there's an app for that." For iPhone, you have your choice of Snappli or Onavo. They have Onavo for Android too, and perhaps other apps, but I'm not sure. The way it works is that it installs a profile, so it works in the background, you never see it if you don't want to. You can select the level of compression you desire, in addition to whether you want your emails compressed or not. It also keeps track of your data usage and data saved. The default is to turn off compression when on WiFi, but if you want it compressed all the time, you can have it set that way too.

As for performance.... it depends. For example, you won't notice any performance degradation in emails if the emails are data only. Sometimes, pages are slower to load, sometimes, it seems faster. To be honest, it's hard to tell. With the newest phones, if you're on LTE, the biggest barrier to performance is probably Javascript, which basically means you want a faster processor.

And route all your data trough a third party? No thank you, a quick scan reveals plenty privacy concerns with those apps.

[Roo Zilla]

And route all your data trough a third party? No thank you, a quick scan reveals plenty privacy concerns with those apps.

From Onavo's webite:

"Onavo Mobile Ltd. has been awarded TRUSTe's Privacy Seal signifying that this privacy policy and practices have been reviewed by TRUSTe for compliance with TRUSTe's program requirements including transparency, accountability and choice regarding the collection and use of your personal information. The TRUSTe program does not cover information that may be collected through downloadable software. TRUSTe's mission, as an independent third party, is to accelerate online trust among consumers and organizations globally through its leading privacy trustmark and innovative trust solutions. If you have questions or complaints regarding our privacy policy or practices, please contact us at [email protected]. If you are not satisfied with our response you can contact TRUSTe here.
Onavo Mobile Ltd. complies with the U.S. - Swiss Safe Harbor Framework as set forth by the U.S. Department of Commerce regarding the collection, use and retention of personal data from the Switzerland. Onavo Mobile Ltd. has certified that it adheres to the Safe Harbor Privacy Principles of notice, choice, onward transfer, security, data integrity, access, and enforcement. To learn more about the Safe Harbor program, and to view Onavo Mobile Ltd.’s certification, please visit http://www.export.gov/safeharbor/."

http://www.onavo.com/privacy_policy

Which part of that do you have issue with? Compared to RIM's privacy policy which accumulates location data and forwards your personal information to third parties..... Seems to be more respectful of the users privacy.

http://us.blackberry.com/legal/privacy-policy.html

[belfastdispatcher]

From Onavo's webite:

"Onavo Mobile Ltd. has been awarded TRUSTe's Privacy Seal signifying that this privacy policy and practices have been reviewed by TRUSTe for compliance with TRUSTe's program requirements including transparency, accountability and choice regarding the collection and use of your personal information. The TRUSTe program does not cover information that may be collected through downloadable software. TRUSTe's mission, as an independent third party, is to accelerate online trust among consumers and organizations globally through its leading privacy trustmark and innovative trust solutions. If you have questions or complaints regarding our privacy policy or practices, please contact us at [email protected]. If you are not satisfied with our response you can contact TRUSTe here.
Onavo Mobile Ltd. complies with the U.S. - Swiss Safe Harbor Framework as set forth by the U.S. Department of Commerce regarding the collection, use and retention of personal data from the Switzerland. Onavo Mobile Ltd. has certified that it adheres to the Safe Harbor Privacy Principles of notice, choice, onward transfer, security, data integrity, access, and enforcement. To learn more about the Safe Harbor program, and to view Onavo Mobile Ltd.’s certification, please visit http://www.export.gov/safeharbor/."

Onavo | Privacy Policy

Which part of that do you have issue with?

Just one example:

http://www.essentialmac.co.uk/app-of-the-day-aotd/onavo-for-iphone-a-real-money-saving-app/


"Privacy Concerns.
Taking a look at the Terms and Conditions (I did warn you earlier it�s scary reading) At least they are upfront about Collecting Personally Identifiable Information. Onavo stores and processes the information through a third party�s hosting services in the USA. I wonder why the vagueness of the hosts, what protection do we have especially with hacking being prevalent as it is.

In short if you read their terms and conditions there is a LOT of data gathering go about and they can and will keep some aspects of your data INDEFINATLY. Go look it up yourself if you don�t believe me.."

[Roo Zilla]

Just one example:

Onavo, helping to reduce your data charges? With a cost!


"Privacy Concerns.
Taking a look at the Terms and Conditions (I did warn you earlier it’s scary reading) At least they are upfront about Collecting Personally Identifiable Information. Onavo stores and processes the information through a third party’s hosting services in the USA. I wonder why the vagueness of the hosts, what protection do we have especially with hacking being prevalent as it is.

In short if you read their terms and conditions there is a LOT of data gathering go about and they can and will keep some aspects of your data INDEFINATLY. Go look it up yourself if you don’t believe me.."

So your opinion is that RIM does not do the same? Okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

[belfastdispatcher]

So your opinion is that RIM does not do the same? Okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

First of all RIM is not Third Party and second no, they don't.

[notfanboy]

An overwhelming majority of network data is already optimally compressed.

Streaming video (MPEG). Pictures. Office documents (Zip). Streaming Audio.

The remainder - the non-image portions of browser pages, email message text, which comprises maybe 1% of your data usage, is the only portion helped by BB data compression.

[Roo Zilla]

First of all RIM is not Third Party and second no, they don't.

LOL It's opt out. Like Onavo.......

And if you read Blackberry's privacy policy.....

BlackBerry - BlackBerry.com Privacy Policy from Research In Motion (RIM) - US

c) Aggregated or anonymous information

RIM reserves the right to process, sell, trade or rent aggregated or anonymous information that is not associated with or linked to an identifiable individual.

And if you read the part about Location Data, they're pretty intrusive.

[belfastdispatcher]

An overwhelming majority of network data is already optimally compressed.

Streaming video (MPEG). Pictures. Office documents (Zip). Streaming Audio.

The remainder - the non-image portions of browser pages, email message text, which comprises maybe 1% of your data usage, is the only portion helped by BB data compression.

I've downloaded a 25mb podcast once using a measured 19mb.

[belfastdispatcher]

LOL It's opt out. Like Onavo.......

And if you read Blackberry's privacy policy.....

BlackBerry - BlackBerry.com Privacy Policy from Research In Motion (RIM) - US

c) Aggregated or anonymous information

RIM reserves the right to process, sell, trade or rent aggregated or anonymous information that is not associated with or linked to an identifiable individual.

And if you read the part about Location Data, they're pretty intrusive.

Again, RIM is not Third Party.

[Roo Zilla]

Again, RIM is not Third Party.

So RIM "reserves the right to process, sell, trade or rent aggregated or anonymous information that is not associated with or linked to an identifiable individual" to themselves? That's ridiculous. And again, they collect much more data and types of data than Onavo.... including multiple types of Location data.... because they can..... And apparently, they "sell, trade, or rent" it.

[Roo Zilla]

RIM's policy concerning 3rd parties:
BlackBerry - BlackBerry.com Privacy Policy from Research In Motion (RIM) - US
"i) Third party information:If necessary to fulfill RIM's identified purposes, RIM may combine the information you submit to RIM with information obtained from other sources or Third Party Offerings. For example, RIM may receive personal information about you from third parties involved in providing you with the products, services, software and websites you are utilizing, such as from your airtime service provider to facilitate the wireless services you are utilizing or in some cases from a Third Party Offering vendor regarding applications used on your device. RIM treats all such personal information in accordance with this Privacy Policy and the terms and conditions between RIM and such third parties, if any, may also apply. However, the third party's own use of your personal information in such cases will be determined by your agreement(s) with the third party, unless that third party is a RIM service provider.
Some of this information would not by itself identify you to RIM or be personally identifiable and is therefore considered non-personal information. If RIM combines any such non-personal information with other personal information available to RIM, the combined information will be treated as personal information in accordance with this Privacy Policy."

Onavo's policy concerning 3rd parties:
http://www.onavo.com/privacy_policy
Onavo does not sell, rent or lease your personally identifiable information to third parties. Onavo may share personally identifiable information with others in any of the following instances, or subject to your explicit consent:
•To operate the Services, including to store and process your information through a third party hosting services and to process payments;
•To contact you. For example, Onavo may use a third party's mailing platform to send you messages and updates from time to time;
•If Onavo believes that you have breached the Master Subscription Agreement, or abused your rights to use the Services, or performed any act or omission that Onavo believes to be violating any applicable law, rules, or regulations. Onavo may share your information with law enforcement agencies and other competent authorities as well as with other third parties, as may be required;
•if Onavo is required, or believes that it is required by law to share or disclose your information;
•In any case of dispute, or legal proceeding of any kind between you and Onavo, or between you and other users or third parties with respect to, or in relation with the Services;
•In any case where Onavo believes that sharing information is necessary to prevent imminent physical harm or damage to property;
•If Onavo is involved in a merger or acquisition, or sale of all or a portion of its assets, you will be notified via email and/or prominent notice on our Web site of any change in ownership or uses of your personal information, as well as any choices you may have regarding your personal information;
•Onavo may also share personally identifiable information with companies or organizations connected, or affiliated with Onavo, such as subsidiaries, sister-companies and parent companies.

At least Onavo doesn't sell your data to 3rd parties.......

[notfanboy]

I've downloaded a 25mb podcast once using a measured 19mb.

Interesting. What format was this podcast in? Or better, can you give the link to the file?

[ichat]

Since blackberry servers are lightening fast when they work, I see no difference in speed. 3G works just like it should with no speed problems in fact iphone can load slower.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9860 on 7.1.0.714 with Tapatalk and my fingers

[belfastdispatcher]

RIM's policy concerning 3rd parties:
BlackBerry - BlackBerry.com Privacy Policy from Research In Motion (RIM) - US
"i) Third party information:If necessary to fulfill RIM's identified purposes, RIM may combine the information you submit to RIM with information obtained from other sources or Third Party Offerings. For example, RIM may receive personal information about you from third parties involved in providing you with the products, services, software and websites you are utilizing, such as from your airtime service provider to facilitate the wireless services you are utilizing or in some cases from a Third Party Offering vendor regarding applications used on your device. RIM treats all such personal information in accordance with this Privacy Policy and the terms and conditions between RIM and such third parties, if any, may also apply. However, the third party's own use of your personal information in such cases will be determined by your agreement(s) with the third party, unless that third party is a RIM service provider.
Some of this information would not by itself identify you to RIM or be personally identifiable and is therefore considered non-personal information. If RIM combines any such non-personal information with other personal information available to RIM, the combined information will be treated as personal information in accordance with this Privacy Policy."

Onavo's policy concerning 3rd parties:
Onavo | Privacy Policy
Onavo does not sell, rent or lease your personally identifiable information to third parties. Onavo may share personally identifiable information with others in any of the following instances, or subject to your explicit consent:
•To operate the Services, including to store and process your information through a third party hosting services and to process payments;
•To contact you. For example, Onavo may use a third party's mailing platform to send you messages and updates from time to time;
•If Onavo believes that you have breached the Master Subscription Agreement, or abused your rights to use the Services, or performed any act or omission that Onavo believes to be violating any applicable law, rules, or regulations. Onavo may share your information with law enforcement agencies and other competent authorities as well as with other third parties, as may be required;
•if Onavo is required, or believes that it is required by law to share or disclose your information;
•In any case of dispute, or legal proceeding of any kind between you and Onavo, or between you and other users or third parties with respect to, or in relation with the Services;
•In any case where Onavo believes that sharing information is necessary to prevent imminent physical harm or damage to property;
•If Onavo is involved in a merger or acquisition, or sale of all or a portion of its assets, you will be notified via email and/or prominent notice on our Web site of any change in ownership or uses of your personal information, as well as any choices you may have regarding your personal information;
•Onavo may also share personally identifiable information with companies or organizations connected, or affiliated with Onavo, such as subsidiaries, sister-companies and parent companies.

At least Onavo doesn't sell your data to 3rd parties.......

Because Onavo IS THE THIRD PARTY!

[belfastdispatcher]

Interesting. What format was this podcast in? Or better, can you give the link to the file?

It was a tech talk mp3 podcast downloaded trough the browser, not the podcast app(I don't know if that makes a difference)

I had a data monitoring app installed at the time and reset it to 0 just before I downloaded the podcast.

I also measured a text bbm at the time at 2kb after the R was shown.

[DannyAves]

From the Harvard Business Review:
"RIM's proprietary network and tightly interconnected system allow it to use data incredibly efficiently. Here's one illustration. The other week I was on an 18-hour flight between Newark and Singapore. Singapore Airlines has started rolling out Internet connectivity on this flight. It isn't cheap, running $1 per megabyte of data. I didn't dare turn on my iPhone, or open up Outlook, but I thought going to Web mail would be safe. 15 minutes later I had a $15.30 bill. Then I remembered the Blackberry in my bag. I connected it to the WiFi network, and had roughly 14 hours of email connectivity. By the end of the trip my bill had gone from $15.30 to $15.45."

RIM Isn't Dead Yet - Scott Anthony - Harvard Business Review

[notfanboy]

It was a tech talk mp3 podcast downloaded trough the browser, not the podcast app(I don't know if that makes a difference)

I had a data monitoring app installed at the time and reset it to 0 just before I downloaded the podcast.

I also measured a text bbm at the time at 2kb after the R was shown.

Do you remember which site? I need to test this for myself. Because on mp3 podcast I tried, I didn't notice any data savings.

[belfastdispatcher]

Do you remember which site? I need to test this for myself. Because on mp3 podcast I tried, I didn't notice any data savings.

I'm not 100% sure but think it was the cnet uk podcast:

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/podcast/

But this was about a year ago and it was measured on a 9700

[notfanboy]

I've downloaded a 25mb podcast once using a measured 19mb.

I'm not 100% sure but think it was the cnet uk podcast:

CNET UK Podcast News | Gadget and Technology News | CNET UK

But this was about a year ago and it was measured on a 9700

Thanks. I downloaded the most recent podcast, filesize 50.6Mb.
I used 7zip to compress the mp3, using the slowest, "ultra" compression setting and it was only able to reduce it by less than 4%

In your test, you were able to get 24% compression. Can anyone explain how RIM manages to do this?
Either RIM data compression is able to violate the laws information theory, or your test was somehow flawed.