[Sigewif]

You are a Poet, and I didn't know it. Good job with that.

Thank you.

[conite]

If accounts like mine were the only thing they are losing money on, then they would be doing better.
They have shown themselves to be fickle hypocrites and that is why they have failed to make money at much of anything.
They need new leadership and a fresh outlook. I am looking forward to Chen moving on to sweet retirement, and hopefully BlackBerry then getting a CEO with a vision and a sense for what the market really wants.
They haven't read the market -- the saga of their fall from the heights in the cell phone business has become legendary. They did not read the market then either. The question is if they have learned anything since then.
Heartbreaking...

I still don't know what they could have done differently.

Once BlackBerry decided to dump their disastrous device business, and subsequently hire Chen to see if they could salvage some value in what they had left (security software), they were still up against the biggest players in the world - Microsoft, Cisco, and IBM. The very best they could have hoped to achieve was to carve out a small specialised space. They are still trying.

QNX is enjoying decent success in cars, but that's a low margin business.

[Troy Tiscareno]

QNX is enjoying decent success in cars, but that's a low margin business.

And those margins are shrinking for every company not named Tesla.

Tesla is forcing auto companies to vertically-integrate (bring ALL parts of production in-house) in order to reduce costs at every level, or they're simply going to go bankrupt - and many big, historic names WILL go bankrupt. Government Motors seems committed to corporate suicide, for example - either that, or they just assume that they'll keep getting bailed out again and again with more billions of taxpayer dollars.

This doesn't bode well for any third-party suppliers. As cars finally get truly "smart" and modernized, they're going to be more and more software-driven, and it's going to be increasingly important for companies not only to reduce costs but to be able to have complete control over their software. Being so heavily (and increasingly) dependent on a third-party OS is only going to be a bigger and bigger liability, especially if that company isn't itself financially healthy, because if they go bankrupt or get sold, who knows what could happen?

QNX is currently being used mostly because of inertia - it already exists, and it's well-understood by existing developers - but combine the move to electrification PLUS the state of the economy in general, and the relations with China in particular - and the legacy car companies MUST make big changes or they will not survive (some already won't, no matter what they do), so IMO QNX is already at a lot greater risk than it was 2 or 3 years ago.

Tesla - which is making 20+% margins on its car sales, continues to build more factories and bring online more resources as well as ever newer technology, which they integrate at speeds that astound the other auto companies. Meanwhile, sales of ICE cars are declining quickly, dealers are adding massive "market adjustments" to both ICE and EVs (driving even more sales to Tesla), and they are losing margins quickly. While I think the last thing they'll lose are the bigger, heavy-duty trucks (250 and 350 class), simply because it will be a while before Tesla brings out anything to compete in that market, the Cybertruck is likely going to gobble up 25% of the 150-class truck market in 2024 and more like 50% of that market in 2025. SO much of the legacy American brands' profits come from that segment of the market that it's going to be a bloodbath.

For the third-party parts suppliers, they should ALL be exploring other lines of business, because in 5 years, they won't exist, at least, not in their current form.

[Tsepz_GP]

In 2023, I don't think anyone really cares anymore..

True.
Funnily enough I do tend to see more non-Apple users talk about Apple, Apple users and its products than Apple users themselves, who tend to be so entrenched in the ecosystem that they don't even care what model of Watch, iPhone, iPad or Mac they have, just as long as it continues to be as smooth and fast as it always is and gets updates.

In my current office team we have multiple iPhones one of which seems to be an SE (don't ask me what year), I don't even bother to try figure out what models each are, but I know if someone gives me their device to do or check something it will be just as fast as the latest model.

At my old office there was a guy who had a Priv and he balanced it out with another phone (can't remember what now) but I do recall him tending to sort of keep it in his pocket unless he wanted to respond to an email, he was somehwere in his mid 40s, I did ask him about it and he just said he liked using the keyboard to bash out an email but used his main phone for all else, I think he had a Samsung S21 Ultra or something as his main phone.

[Ph1llip]

Tesla - which is making 20+% margins on its car sales, continues to build more factories and bring online more resources as well as ever newer technology, which they integrate at speeds that astound the other auto companies. Meanwhile, sales of ICE cars are declining quickly, dealers are adding massive "market adjustments" to both ICE and EVs (driving even more sales to Tesla), and they are losing margins quickly. While I think the last thing they'll lose are the bigger, heavy-duty trucks (250 and 350 class), simply because it will be a while before Tesla brings out anything to compete in that market, the Cybertruck is likely going to gobble up 25% of the 150-class truck market in 2024 and more like 50% of that market in 2025. SO much of the legacy American brands' profits come from that segment of the market that it's going to be a bloodbath.

At the risk of sounding like an EV hater (which I'm not-I just think they're ridiculously overpriced for what they can do), no, Tesla makes a complete and utter loss on every car it sells. At least if you use the classical Cost-of-Input/Price-of-Output formula.

They make money as a car company because of green credits they receive from the government (that would be your and my money).

They (or at least the car division) are the classic perpetual-bailout operating model. GM and Ford have got nothing on them.

And no, I don't think they will own the light truck (or heavy) class any time soon. Batteries are an absolute technical solution failure for light truck uses. A light truck you can only use around the burb's, can't haul anything with and can't take backcountry? No thanks!

[Troy Tiscareno]

Sorry, but the article you linked to is talking about 2020 sales numbers, when the Model 3 was still ramping production and before the Model Y was a real factor. Things have changed tremendously for Tesla since then, in many respects.

Yes, Telsa is certainly making money from those credits - and selling them to GM and Ford so that they're able to continue to sell their large trucks that don't meet emissions standards - but Tesla turned the corner in a big way when the Model 3 and Y were ramped up in volume, and they continue to reduce costs. Meanwhile, they are also continuing to build huge factories at an incredible rate, PAYING CASH, and are still making billions in profits each year. And as every year goes by, their volume increases, their costs per car decreases, and new technologies come along that continue to lower costs - very rapidly integrated by Tesla.

Now, I agree with you that Ford and GM's trucks have been a joke, but both companies are using battery tech that is 2-generations outdated (and Tesla is likely to advance another generation soon), and in the case of Ford, they're using an ICE truck design for the Lightning where they've really just swapped out the engine and transmission with batteries and an electric motor. Going that way is fast, and initially cheaper, but at the expense of efficiency and high long-term costs. As for GM's Hummer EV, it's nearly the same thing. Tesla does clean-sheet designs and maximizes the efficiency of every single part, to lower costs and maximize range.

The Cybertruck, which will be released late this year, won't really be a factor until the end of next year - and I'm sure it will have a few teething problems, as anything this radically new is bound to have. But by the end of 2024, it should be solid and reliable, and it's going to change people's minds just as Tesla's cars have changed minds.

People said that the Tesla Semi would never have the claimed range - but Pepsi/Frito-Lay has confirmed that it does, even though their use case doesn't require more than 400 miles of range - and only 200 miles for soda, because long ago they built lots of local bottling plants to serve all of their regions, to reduce distribution costs.

No question, Tesla is taking full advantage of government incentives - but these incentives are available to every automaker. Tesla didn't ask for them - most of them pre-date Tesla. But what company would NOT take advantage of every opportunity they could? If you have a problem with that, take it up with the government. If all of those green credits went away tomorrow, Tesla would still be very profitable - but Lucid, Rivian, Fisker, and others would probably close the next day.

If you think the CyberTruck is going to be anything like Ford and GM's pathetic attempts, well, look at their attempts at electric cars. GM's EVs have been an absolute disaster across the board, and Ford's haven't been a lot better. Even without a pickup, Tesla is squeezing all other automakers, and they are starting to fall already. Ford and GM make nearly all of their profits from pickups and large truck-based SUVs, so the CyberTruck is going to be a huge turd in their Wheaties. It's going to be ugly.

Check back here in 2 years, and let's see if I'm right.

[brookie229]

Sorry, but the article you linked to is talking about 2020 sales numbers, when the Model 3 was still ramping production and before the Model Y was a real factor. Things have changed tremendously for Tesla since then, in many respects.

Yes, Telsa is certainly making money from those credits - and selling them to GM and Ford so that they're able to continue to sell their large trucks that don't meet emissions standards - but Tesla turned the corner in a big way when the Model 3 and Y were ramped up in volume, and they continue to reduce costs. Meanwhile, they are also continuing to build huge factories at an incredible rate, PAYING CASH, and are still making billions in profits each year. And as every year goes by, their volume increases, their costs per car decreases, and new technologies come along that continue to lower costs - very rapidly integrated by Tesla.

Now, I agree with you that Ford and GM's trucks have been a joke, but both companies are using battery tech that is 2-generations outdated (and Tesla is likely to advance another generation soon), and in the case of Ford, they're using an ICE truck design for the Lightning where they've really just swapped out the engine and transmission with batteries and an electric motor. Going that way is fast, and initially cheaper, but at the expense of efficiency and high long-term costs. As for GM's Hummer EV, it's nearly the same thing. Tesla does clean-sheet designs and maximizes the efficiency of every single part, to lower costs and maximize range.

The Cybertruck, which will be released late this year, won't really be a factor until the end of next year - and I'm sure it will have a few teething problems, as anything this radically new is bound to have. But by the end of 2024, it should be solid and reliable, and it's going to change people's minds just as Tesla's cars have changed minds.

People said that the Tesla Semi would never have the claimed range - but Pepsi/Frito-Lay has confirmed that it does, even though their use case doesn't require more than 400 miles of range - and only 200 miles for soda, because long ago they built lots of local bottling plants to serve all of their regions, to reduce distribution costs.

No question, Tesla is taking full advantage of government incentives - but these incentives are available to every automaker. Tesla didn't ask for them - most of them pre-date Tesla. But what company would NOT take advantage of every opportunity they could? If you have a problem with that, take it up with the government. If all of those green credits went away tomorrow, Tesla would still be very profitable - but Lucid, Rivian, Fisker, and others would probably close the next day.

If you think the CyberTruck is going to be anything like Ford and GM's pathetic attempts, well, look at their attempts at electric cars. GM's EVs have been an absolute disaster across the board, and Ford's haven't been a lot better. Even without a pickup, Tesla is squeezing all other automakers, and they are starting to fall already. Ford and GM make nearly all of their profits from pickups and large truck-based SUVs, so the CyberTruck is going to be a huge turd in their Wheaties. It's going to be ugly.

Check back here in 2 years, and let's see if I'm right.

We would need to check back in about 5 years. I think you are wrong. I would not write off Ford or GM, Volkswagen or Toyota that quickly. As for Lucid, Rivian etc., yeah they will probably be history in 5 years. Regardless, it's going to get interesting!

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Sorry, but the article you linked to is talking about 2020 sales numbers, when the Model 3 was still ramping production and before the Model Y was a real factor. Things have changed tremendously for Tesla since then, in many respects.

If you think the CyberTruck is going to be anything like Ford and GM's pathetic attempts, well, look at their attempts at electric cars. GM's EVs have been an absolute disaster across the board, and Ford's haven't been a lot better. Even without a pickup, Tesla is squeezing all other automakers, and they are starting to fall already. Ford and GM make nearly all of their profits from pickups and large truck-based SUVs, so the CyberTruck is going to be a huge turd in their Wheaties. It's going to be ugly.

Check back here in 2 years, and let's see if I'm right.

Saw an article where GM is really pushing the idea of providing subscription services in their cars in a few years... It will be part of a new software package they are working on with plans to release on just their EV's starting in 2024.
This new package will drop for Android Auto and CarPlay. I'm sure that will go over just fine with their customers.... if they have any.

But it's only their EV's not their ICE Cars....

I understand there is a LOT of hope in that sector that they'll be able to turn cars into ongoing profit centers... Right now I'd likly buy a Tesla, just because of their track record on software updates compared to most other OEMs that then to build them and then forget them...

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I follow BlackBerry on Instagram and Twitter. Everyday they have posts about how their cyber security protects us.
Their "intelligent security everywhere" slogan is disingenuous at best and actually comes across as an outright lie, when they take away the security for smaller companies and consumers.
Serious question: how much extra maintenance does it take to service smaller accounts when it is all automated anyway???
NO WONDER their stock is about half or less of what it was when it looked like a good deal because it was so "low."
The stock performance says everything you need to know about their snobbish attitude toward those they deem to be "beneath them" because they are small businesses and consumers not worth bothering with. Don't blame the stock exchange down turn. BlackBerry stock was floundering long before that happened.
Hopefully when Chen retires they get better management.

Stock performance has more to do with their inability to compete against much bigger players.... that can give away some of the services BlackBerry has to charge for... like device management.. Who can offer more complete packages of Cybersecurity software rather than just partial solutions. And who can afford to spend hundreds of millions on R&D while BlackBerry struggles...

I know it's frustrating to once again be kicked away by BlackBerry, it's nothing personal....

[Ph1llip]

Sorry, but the article you linked to is talking about 2020 sales numbers, when the Model 3 was still ramping production and before the Model Y was a real factor. Things have changed tremendously for Tesla since then, in many respects.

Yes, Telsa is certainly making money from those credits - and selling them to GM and Ford so that they're able to continue to sell their large trucks that don't meet emissions standards - but Tesla turned the corner in a big way when the Model 3 and Y were ramped up in volume, and they continue to reduce costs. Meanwhile, they are also continuing to build huge factories at an incredible rate, PAYING CASH, and are still making billions in profits each year. And as every year goes by, their volume increases, their costs per car decreases, and new technologies come along that continue to lower costs - very rapidly integrated by Tesla.

Now, I agree with you that Ford and GM's trucks have been a joke, but both companies are using battery tech that is 2-generations outdated (and Tesla is likely to advance another generation soon), and in the case of Ford, they're using an ICE truck design for the Lightning where they've really just swapped out the engine and transmission with batteries and an electric motor. Going that way is fast, and initially cheaper, but at the expense of efficiency and high long-term costs. As for GM's Hummer EV, it's nearly the same thing. Tesla does clean-sheet designs and maximizes the efficiency of every single part, to lower costs and maximize range.

The Cybertruck, which will be released late this year, won't really be a factor until the end of next year - and I'm sure it will have a few teething problems, as anything this radically new is bound to have. But by the end of 2024, it should be solid and reliable, and it's going to change people's minds just as Tesla's cars have changed minds.

People said that the Tesla Semi would never have the claimed range - but Pepsi/Frito-Lay has confirmed that it does, even though their use case doesn't require more than 400 miles of range - and only 200 miles for soda, because long ago they built lots of local bottling plants to serve all of their regions, to reduce distribution costs.

No question, Tesla is taking full advantage of government incentives - but these incentives are available to every automaker. Tesla didn't ask for them - most of them pre-date Tesla. But what company would NOT take advantage of every opportunity they could? If you have a problem with that, take it up with the government. If all of those green credits went away tomorrow, Tesla would still be very profitable - but Lucid, Rivian, Fisker, and others would probably close the next day.

If you think the CyberTruck is going to be anything like Ford and GM's pathetic attempts, well, look at their attempts at electric cars. GM's EVs have been an absolute disaster across the board, and Ford's haven't been a lot better. Even without a pickup, Tesla is squeezing all other automakers, and they are starting to fall already. Ford and GM make nearly all of their profits from pickups and large truck-based SUVs, so the CyberTruck is going to be a huge turd in their Wheaties. It's going to be ugly.

Check back here in 2 years, and let's see if I'm right.

I don't want to be a Debbie Downer on Tesla. Or GM. Or Ford. But I'm not starry eyed about BEV's in general. I think they will be just another power option for vehicles. Different use cases will require different power options. For my use cases, only one option fits all: ICE. (and maybe HFC when they get their act together).

[brookie229]

Saw an article where GM is really pushing the idea of providing subscription services in their cars in a few years... It will be part of a new software package they are working on with plans to release on just their EV's starting in 2024.
This new package will drop for Android Auto and CarPlay. I'm sure that will go over just fine with their customers.... if they have any.

But it's only their EV's not their ICE Cars....

I understand there is a LOT of hope in that sector that they'll be able to turn cars into ongoing profit centers... Right now I'd likly buy a Tesla, just because of their track record on software updates compared to most other OEMs that then to build them and then forget them...

Polestar will be my first EV, if they are still around and I'm still alive.