1. guerllamo7's Avatar
    10-25-11 08:38 AM
  2. ekafara's Avatar
    Well RIM seems to like buying more and more companies, maybe they will buy these guys too.

    For people that dislike going to the links:

    Research In Motion probably can’t wait for the year to end. After a spate of bad news, the BlackBerry-maker was hoping to turn the corner with the announcement of its new BBX operating system. Now a small software company has followed up on its warnings last week and filed a trademark suit to stop RIM (NSDQ:RIMM - News) from using the name.

    The company, BASIS International, provides a programming language and related tools for the software development community. It claims that for decades it has used the trademark BBX to designate its products in the US and other countries.

    In its complaint, filed in Albuquerque federal court, BASIS says that its lawyers wrote Research In Motion immediately after the latter announced its BBX new operating system on October 19 and demanded that it cease using the mark. BASIS says that it never received a response. BASIS’s filing also include a cease-and-desist letter and images showing a BlackBerry executive standing in front of a giant BBX mark in San Francisco last week.

    BASIS claims that it has already received questions from confused customers about RIM’s new operating system. Worse, the company says, developers who use the product are also asking if the BASIS BBX software is only compatible with RIM devices. It asserts that this is a major problem because the BASIS programming tools are designed for cross-platform development, meaning that an app maker could use BASIS to design an app for use on an iPhone, an Android phone or, yes, a BlackBerry. BASIS fears that developers will now associate its BBX software only with RIM products.

    RIM could not be immediately reached for comment but last week the company told Reuters in an email that “we do not believe the marks are confusing, particularly since our respective companies are in different lines of business.”

    The test for trademark infringement is whether a rival’s mark is likely to create a likelihood of confusion in the minds of consumers. In this situation, BASIS may have a strong case because it has a registered mark for what appears to be an overlapping category of goods. Its 1995 trademark was granted for “Computer Software (written in a dialect of basic programming languages), and instruction manuals provided therewith, for use in the creation and execution of business and financial software.”

    In the lawsuit, BASIS is asking for damages and for a preliminary and permanent injunction to prevent RIM from using the BBX mark.

    These sort of trademark lawsuits have become a regular feature of the technology landscape. In certain cases, such as those involving several Apple (NSDQ:AAPL - News) “i-products”, the plaintiff can appear to be an opportunist who has obtained the mark simply in order to obtain a pay-out to go away. In other situations, the plaintiff is using the disputed mark for a genuine business. One recent example appears to be Timelines.com, which is involved in an ongoing dispute with Facebook over the latter’s new “Timeline” feature.
    Last edited by eKafara; 10-25-11 at 09:43 AM.
    10-25-11 09:41 AM
  3. murnende's Avatar
    Of course they would, the question is whether RIM will pay them off prior to completion of the lawsuit, or if not, whether they'll win.

    People sue over less, I'm sure BASIS's executives had dollar signs appear in their eyes as soon as they heard that a deep-pocketed corporation had infringed their trademark. I find it unlikely that they'll force the injunction, it's just leverage to get RIM to pay up.

    Mike, grab your chequebook. Nothing to see here, move along . . .
    10-25-11 09:43 AM
  4. anon1727506's Avatar
    Of course they would, the question is whether RIM will pay them off prior to completion of the lawsuit, or if not, whether they'll win.

    People sue over less, I'm sure BASIS's executives had dollar signs appear in their eyes as soon as they heard that a deep-pocketed corporation had infringed their trademark. I find it unlikely that they'll force the injunction, it's just leverage to get RIM to pay up.

    Mike, grab your chequebook. Nothing to see here, move along . . .
    Not a Trademark expert... but sounds like BASIS's has a very good claim against RIM. Instead of laying off people, RIM might want to look into expanding some of their departments. Just seems like they are having problems in just about every department these days.
    10-25-11 09:56 AM
  5. taylortbb's Avatar
    It's a non-issue, the amount of money BASIS will need to be convinced to license the trademark is completely inconsequential to a company the size of RIM. Several million would more than cover BASIS' cost of rebranding and leave a pretty nice profit.
    10-25-11 01:07 PM
  6. 1812dave's Avatar
    It's a non-issue, the amount of money BASIS will need to be convinced to license the trademark is completely inconsequential to a company the size of RIM. Several million would more than cover BASIS' cost of rebranding and leave a pretty nice profit.
    "Need"? don't think "need"; think "want". Two different animals with different dollar figures.
    10-25-11 01:22 PM
  7. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    I own the 2BO brand ... with associated TLDs, of course.
    Please RIM, make an offer !

    2BO = BBOs, nice isn't it ?
    10-25-11 01:23 PM
  8. Blackberry_boffin's Avatar
    I own the 2BO brand ... with associated TLDs, of course.
    Please RIM, make an offer !

    2BO = BBOs, nice isn't it ?
    Well better hurry and register BOSS too.
    I hear Blackberry Operating System Software (BOSS) is being touted as a credible alternative.
    BOSS 1.0 imagine that!
    10-25-11 01:41 PM
  9. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Well better hurry and register BOSS too.
    I hear Blackberry Operating System Software (BOSS) is being touted as a credible alternative.
    BOSS 1.0 imagine that!
    Since it begins with two "B" and a "O" ... the point is I have the TLDs ...
    This is my competition advantage ! (for Boss, I guess you know it's far from free !).
    10-25-11 01:46 PM
  10. taylortbb's Avatar
    "Need"? don't think "need"; think "want". Two different animals with different dollar figures.
    I think they're also not stupid. It's easier to make a few million than fight an uncertain court battle. Their trademark is for "Computer Software (written in a dialect of basic programming languages)...", nothing on BBX is based on BASIC or any of its derivatives. While I think they're pretty close, RIM is not in the business they were granted the trademark for. That's what makes it uncertain.
    10-25-11 02:02 PM
  11. rcheung135's Avatar
    It sounds like Basis has RIM by the balls, and analysts are having a field day over this. It's going to hurt RIM's pockets whether or not they buy or settle, or even proceed to the courts.
    10-25-11 02:19 PM
  12. rdkempt's Avatar
    I've been saying from the start they should have just called their new OS what it is... a Portable Operating System, POS. Sometimes it's trendy to do the upper and lower case; PoS.
    10-25-11 02:24 PM
  13. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    It sounds like Basis has RIM by the balls, and analysts are having a field day over this. It's going to hurt RIM's pockets whether or not they buy or settle, or even proceed to the courts.
    Yes and no.

    The Good thing for RIM is that BBX is getting Plastered everywhere which helps with branding, also BBx can be used to write software for BlackBerry's is getting pushed around so people who use BBxBBj keep hearing about BlackBerry's

    Because RIM and BASIS' are in 2 different but over lapping markets, the argument about how valid this claim is, will be very subject to interpretation by a Judge, RIM will have to weigh out legal costs vs settlement costs, and since this case seems to be very much a simple trade market dispute case, the costs for fighting it are probably much lower than BASIS' is going to want for damages, on the flip side RIM can also counter sue for damages if they win the dispute.

    IT really comes down to WILL BASIS' customers be willing to be shown in open court as confused to the Difference between BBX as an Operating system, and BBx being the Brand of BBj they are currently using and have been using. This case will come down to confusion of BASIC' customers, and if OS names fall into the same as Programming language names

    I will point people to Extreme Programming (XP) FAQ XP Programming, and Windows XP, both existing, in a similar sense as BASIS' BBx and RIM BBX
    Last edited by deRusett; 10-25-11 at 02:52 PM.
    rcheung135 likes this.
    10-25-11 02:27 PM
  14. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I've been saying from the start they should have just called their new OS what it is... a Portable Operating System, POS. Sometimes it's trendy to do the upper and lower case; PoS.
    The PoS acronym stands for Point of Sale, as well, as something more colourful, it certainly would NOT be a good name for RIM to try and use to ReBrand themselves for a new life
    10-25-11 02:29 PM
  15. wu-wei's Avatar
    Injunction hearings are typically docketed very quickly and the outcome of those hearings almost always dictates the settlement (or cross-licensing) agreements between the two companies.

    In this case, my opinion is that BASIS has a *very* strong case for infringement. Either someone in RIM's legal department was asleep and failed to conduct due diligence to identify the potential infringement, or RIM management decided to roll the dice, make their announcement, and see what BASIS would do.

    Either way, both companies are getting press. I think they appreciate that more than anything.
    wcor likes this.
    10-25-11 02:42 PM
  16. guerllamo7's Avatar
    Good points. The unfortunate truth is that we live in a time where you get sued for walking down the street.
    The issue is RIM can't market a phone as BBX and then change it. RIM may be right but I think they should just drop the issue and come up with another catchy acronym. I like BBX but why not just QNX or BB-X or whatever.
    Either way, why fight this fight? Just focus on the product and make it as awesome as we want it to be. People won't remember this issue unless RIM fights on for a year or longer. We have an endless appeal process.

    My dream BB-X or whatever you want to call it would be (they could have a big X on the back of the phone that is a slight tone different from the rest of the back and still have the BB logo):

    3.7" screen (we already have this on the Torch full screen)
    1.2 Ghz Dual Core processor (we already have 1.2 single core)
    Swipe based like the Playbook (I think this is a given)
    NFC capable, bridge capable for Playbook
    World Phone (as all the OS7s are)

    TAT designed UI that is just over the top.
    Able to run all the apps from Playbook and android player
    9-10 hours of talk time but retain the ability to swap batteries.
    video editing (courtesy of JayCut-they acquired that works on Mac or PC)
    Some kind of cloud (besides DropBox or other third party-courtesy of newBay)
    10 MP camera (my Bold 9930 with 5 MP is just fine but some people will want this and the droids are up there already)

    BB Music
    BB Movies (1 or 2 free movies to get people to track it)
    Able to video chat with Playbook and any android phone

    And still have the gold standard for security, e-mail and messaging.

    Lastly, it should be pre-loaded with free voice navigation (Waze is nice but something with a TAT UI + BB Maps that is not a battery suck would be nice and it should run on RIMM servers - like UbiNav - so people don't have to pay for data), free weather, stock, and the to 20 most popular apps. We can all count and expect DataViz Plus for office docs since they purchased the company.

    We are moving to pay as you go data consumption and this should help RIM since they are more "fuel efficient" that way.



    Just curious, did I leave anything out? I would like a keyboard but I don't think we are getting that, at least on the first wave.
    Last edited by guerllamo7; 10-25-11 at 03:18 PM.
    10-25-11 03:04 PM
  17. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    They will settle way before court. Cisco owned the iphone brand too and Apple didn't buy it before they released the iphone.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Mr Bigs likes this.
    10-25-11 03:14 PM
  18. katiepea's Avatar
    wow, RIM's gonna end up changing the OS name, no doubt. what a legendary failure on the part of such a large company as RIM to not even look into this beforehand, wow, just wow
    10-25-11 05:55 PM
  19. tack's Avatar
    It cracks me up how RIM pulls an Apple and blatantly steals an active trade name, yet most of the people here don't state that it is wrong and reason that because they are larger they will be OK. This is not about getting sued for walking down the street. Trademarks, Copyrights, Patents, etc are as much to protect the little guys as they are the big ones. Apple stole the iPhone and iPad names out right by marketing them at such a high level the old name holders were never again to get recognition, and now RIM is doing it. People blasted Apple for doing it, and I thought that was right. I would have liked for Apple to lose and RIM the same. The practice says that trademarks, etc don't mean anything and that if you are large enough, you should own the names you want because you are bigger.

    I used Basis products for years, but I did not even know they still existed. My guess is they will settle with RIM for what will be small for RIM but significant for them. It does however make me look negative on RIM, just like a did Apple.

    Another example of this is Walmart selling known counterfeit goods. They have been caught 3 times selling Tommy Hilfiger knock offs and keep doing it. They actually stated that the legal bills were insignificant. They have done the same to others. Who would want to go against Walmart in court, even when they are guilty. They have more money than many countries, but it does not make it right. We quit buying things there over this and their low cost country strategies.
    10-28-11 06:17 AM
  20. ichat's Avatar
    Mike L, time to rub those fingers and get that cheque book. You gotta pay someone

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-28-11 06:32 AM
  21. stevenje98's Avatar
    Today Nov-16 2011. BASIS Files Motion for a Preliminary Injunction Against RIMís Use of BBX

    BASIS Files Motion for a Preliminary Injunction Against RIM

    It appears as of today Rim better find another name and fast. The Congressman and Senators in NM for sure will get involved in this only for the lime light. I'm from NM, and these politicians here will not pass this up. one congressman kind of hinted about this situation on the local news.

    Rim, really needs to get there act together or Rim will be meeting with the Governor of NM. a recent former District Attorney.
    11-17-11 01:44 AM
  22. Rootbrian's Avatar
    Damn copyright trolls.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-17-11 05:35 AM
  23. lnichols's Avatar
    I've been saying from the start they should have just called their new OS what it is... a Portable Operating System, POS. Sometimes it's trendy to do the upper and lower case; PoS.
    Stay classy Tallahassee! Expect nothing less than such valuable contributions to the forum.
    11-17-11 08:43 AM
  24. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Everybody thought Cisco had a good case against Apple calling that obscure old product an 'iPhone'.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-17-11 12:22 PM
  25. EchoTango's Avatar
    In my view Basis has every right to sue RIM. A simple Google search would have discovered the name conflict and may have averted this whole business. Approaching the company before announcing the BBX product would have facilitated a discussion about sharing the name or coming to some compromise. Now, RIM is stuck in a box and will have to but their way out of this dispute.

    However who knows, maybe RIM did contact them and Basis simply didn't respond and/or waited until RIM had publicly announced the name ? I still can't believe that RIM's trademark lawyers could be that naive to just let the issue slide without some form of legal manuvering.
    11-17-11 12:27 PM
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