[birdman_38]

If Samsung is so happy with Google, why are they developing Tizen?

For their smart watches and TV's.

[mnc76]

For their smart watches and TV's.

If they have decided to forgo having Tizen on phones, then that is only a relatively recent decision.

The fact that there exist versions of Tizen that run in phones (with all the software to support cell radios and touch screens etc...) means Samsung put a lot if research into having Tizen specifically on cell phones.

Also, it appears that Samsung will still likely release Tizen phones in some emerging markets.

Report: Samsung continues its Tizen experiment with a $100-ish phone
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/...e-for-january/



Attachment 325825

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Also, Tizen has multiple versions -- only the most recent is for smart tvs.

Samsung's Tizen graduates from phone to television with smart TV prototype
http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/04/samsung-tizen-tv/

Yesterday, Samsung released a developer kit that shows it's planning on releasing a version of its open-sourced Tizen platform to run on smart TVs, not just wearables and smartphones.

From Samsung's own developer portal for Tizen:

Attachment 325827

Phones were the original hardware platform for Tizen and still appear to be promoted by them.

[anon(257429)]

If Samsung is so happy with Google, why are they developing Tizen?

Also, I suggest you look up what happened to Samsung's Magazine UX and how it's disappearance relates to the cross-licensing deal. Note that I'm not saying Samsung's UX changes to Google-Android are a good thing (or even a bad thing) for Android as a whole. The only relevant point is that changing the UI is something that Samsung *wants to do*.

While I heartily agree that we won't see Samsung producing Android-forked phones for the forseeable future, they may be interested in supporting an Android-compatible forked OS (via software contributions) as a way of hedging their bets.

Also, I would be surprised if some of Google's restrictions on OHA members aren't eventually called out as monopolistic at some point. For example: Samsung isn't even allowed to manufacture Amazon Kindle Fire tablets because they use a forked version of Android.



Google�s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary
Google?s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary | Ars Technica

This is yet another reason Samsung is sick of Google. Being tied to Google means they can't even make autonomous decisions about which device manufacturing contracts they take. What manufacturing company wouldn't dislike that?

---

Finally, Sun and Oracle are only tertiarily relevant to the point I was trying to make. The point is that BlackBerry, Amazon, etc... are legally "safe" to make API-conpatible replacements for Google Play Services since Google did the exact same thing with the Java APIs. The judge in that case ruled for Google stating that the structure of the Java API's was not copywritable. In the end, the fact that "Sun was OK" with anything at any point in time was irrelevant to Google winning the case.

According to the ruling:


This provides a strong precedent for allowing third parties to create a Google Play Services replacement. If Google were to argue against it, they would be arguing against their own positive ruling vs Oracle.


Posted from my awesome White Z30

You read that statement completely wrong . You cant take ANDROID "the software" and developed something based off ANDROID aka "A forked" version.. Tizen is not ANDROID. Tizen isnt based off Android, it has nothing to do with Android. They didnt download Android and then call it Tizen . WOW...

[anon(257429)]

Your interpretation of Samsung and Google relationship is very different for the most part. Only thing Samsung has to do, is make all the Tizen phones it wants, if they are so tired of Google. Google R&D budget benefits everyone, because it goes into Android for improvements and development. And because Google the company, develops and maintains Android, doesn't mean some random company can come and bastardize the code, just so some people can say " Gee, Google has no control of Android" . So people wont add layers or elements that could compromise security, and stability. Thats what smart companies do.

Quality control is essential for any software development and for them to control certain aspects of it, makes complete sense. Or should Google spend millions in development something and give it away for free and watch it crumble before their eyes? Or just so people can perceive that its not a quality software solution for mobile phones. .

Samsung is losing money because they never innovated on the hardware front. Their phones look the same and feel the same. So people are less likely going to upgrade to a newer version. It has nothing to do with Google or Android or Tizen. Kinda like how BB thought nothing was wrong with their phones for years.

[mnc76]

You read that statement completely wrong . You cant take ANDROID "the software" and developed something based off ANDROID aka "A forked" version.. Tizen is not ANDROID. Tizen isnt based off Android, it has nothing to do with Android. They didnt download Android and then call it Tizen . WOW...

The only point I have been trying to make is that Samsung is sick of Google-Android and are looking at alternatives.

I've shown you numerous reasons why they would be sick of Google-Android (e.g.: pressure from Google not to alter the stock Google-Android UX too much; restrictions on what devices they can manufacture as part of the OHA).

I've also shown you what is clearly their response to their issues with Google-Android. That response is Tizen -- an alternative OS that is trying to do the same things as Google-Android (namely, be an OS for mobile, wearables, cars, tvs, etc... These are all things Google is positioning Android to do).

The important (and relevant) difference between Tizen and Android is that, when using Tizen, Samsung is not bound to any of the restrictive agreements that they are bound to with Android. The fact that Tizen is (or is not) a copy of Android is not relevant.

Because of the fact that Samsung is "sick" of Android makes me believe that Samsung would support a multi-company backed alternative to Android (though this support would have to fall within their current agreements with Google and so would likely be a software-only contribution).


Posted from my awesome White Z30

[MarsupilamiX]

You raise an interesting point.

I think that Microsoft may intend to use Windows 10 for the PC Android compatibility as a bargaining chip with Google. So if Microsoft lets Android apps run on Windows 10 for the PC then Google lets Android apps run on Windows Phone as well.

Far better deal for Google than for MS.... At least in our current market realities.
This would be a stupid move on the part of MS. They currently don't have anything to gain from Android apps on PCs.

There is also a remote possibility that Microsoft/BlackBerry/Amazon/Xiamoi could band together and form a third party alliance that utilizes an android fork that does not rely on Google Services. The foundation is already there with the Amazon app store. If the market share of the these non-OHA companies could ever amount to something remotely meaningful then devs may look more seriously at submitting alternate versions of their apps to this consolidated store. Just a wacky idea I thought of. I know it is remote. But as I have said in the past, I am completely against a two horse race. We all lose. Frankly, it isn't even a two horse race now. It's Android with most of the worldwide market share, and iOS with smaller chunk. Just like the desktop days of Windows owning the majority of market share and Mac grabbing the higher end.

I honestly had no idea that this possibility has already been discussed in this thread, when I thought about Android players for everyone, in the HTML5 apps thread.
Interesting

[LuvULongTime]

Far better deal for Google than for MS.... At least in our current market realities.
This would be a stupid move on the part of MS. They currently don't have anything to gain from Android apps on PCs.



I honestly had no idea that this possibility has already been discussed in this thread, when I thought about Android players for everyone, in the HTML5 apps thread.
Interesting

Great minds think a like.

If we are thinking it here, I wonder if Chen/Nadella/etc have given it even the slightest thought?

Posted via CB10

[ccbs]

I didn't realize Google was restricting how much OHA members could modify the stock Android UI. I completely get why they are doing it, but I would also be very annoyed if I were an OHA partner like Samsung. It just makes it harder to compete especially with the low cost entrants. So I suppose BlackBerry taking Android and skinning it like BB10 for consumers would be out of the question?

WRT to API compatible replacements for Google services, I completely agree. This needs to be a priority for Amazon and BlackBerry. They need to make it as easy as possible for devs to port over their apps from Google Play.

I doubt we would ever see Samsung or any current OHA member join an alliance like this as they are in too deep with Google-Android. However, a Microsoft/BlackBerry/Amazon/Xiaomi/Lenovo partnership would be doable. The only concern I would have if I were Microsoft and BlackBerry would be that they would be helping to build up a native Android store for Amazon/Xiaomi/Lenovo who would most likely run Android as their base OS. The end game for Microsoft and BlackBerry is not to run Android on top of their current OS's, but to get native apps in their stores. Android would only be a stop gap for them. Unless both companies stipulated that the others must run one of Windows or BB10, and can not go with a fork of Android.

Xiaomi is making investment left and right to bolster their own video streaming and tied in with Youku, Tudou, Iqiyi video services in China. Their own MIUI app store is growing very well now. There is really no point for them to join forces with a tiny handset player like BBRY. There is nothing to gain for them. If Xiaomi is to ever entered US market, Amazon would naturally be a key partner, in providing video streaming contend and apps ecosystem.
I just don't see BBRY being considered as a partner of any sorts for Xiaomi at this point.

[LuvULongTime]

Xiaomi is making investment left and right to bolster their own video streaming and tied in with Youku, Tudou, Iqiyi video services in China. Their own MIUI app store is growing very well now. There is really no point for them to join forces with a tiny handset player like BBRY. There is nothing to gain for them. If Xiaomi is to ever entered US market, Amazon would naturally be a key partner, in providing video streaming contend and apps ecosystem.
I just don't see BBRY being considered as a partner of any sorts for Xiaomi at this point.

It's not about Xiaomi partnering with BlackBerry. It's about all those companies I mentioned partnering together and forming an alliance that would have enough joint market share to make an alternate android store attractive to developers. Right now Xiaomi has no market share in North America, and the version of Android they run has no Google Services. They will have a tough time competing on their own in the USA against Samsung unless they join the OHA or have an alternate app store to fall back with apps that North American consumers want

[birdman_38]

Right now Xiaomi has no market share in North America, and the version of Android they run has no Google Services. They will have a tough time competing on their own in the USA against Samsung unless they join the OHA or have an alternate app store to fall back with apps that North American consumers want

I heard they are now OHA approved for outside China.

[LuvULongTime]

I heard they are now OHA approved for outside China.

Do you have a link? I searched the web but could not find any confirmation of this. In any event, it doesn't change the original thought of creating an alternative to the OHA. Xiaomi just would not be a part of it.

I wonder how they will be recieved here in NA if they actually come and sell devices like pictured in this article? The HW and OS are somewhat ripoffs of Apple.

Five reasons why Xiaomi is a serious smartphone player - CNET

[birdman_38]

Do you have a link? I searched the web but could not find any confirmation of this. In any event, it doesn't change the original thought of creating an alternative to the OHA. Xiaomi just would not be a part of it.

I wonder how they will be recieved here in NA if they actually come and sell devices like pictured in this article?

Sorry I don't. I saw it somewhere on Android Central. They do intend on expanding out of China eventually.

Interesting to note the Chinese government does not allow Google Services.

[Ment]

Sorry I don't. I saw it somewhere on Android Central. They do intend on expanding out of China eventually.

Interesting to note the Chinese government does not allow Google Services.

They aren't a member of OHA but since they are a compatible fork Google isn't doing anything they are treating Xiaomi like Cyanogen Mod . Probably helps that former Google execs are at Xiaomi and currently they are in developing markets. Google might put its foot down if they come into Western markets with the fork.

In other news Samsung is going to become even more closer to stock Android with S6.

An industry source remarked, “We are aiming to get rid of unnecessary functions and simplify our UI at the level of Google's Nexus 6.” The Nexus series are smartphones that represent Google's Android operating system (OS). Since they utilize a basic UI provided by Android OS without a separate UI, they do not need a large amount of extra software storage other than mobile OS. The Nexus 6 was first introduced to the U.S. in November of last year.

TouchWiz has been used as a differentiation factor, starting with the Galaxy S3. The model added new functions that recognize vital signs such as facial movements, voice, and hand gestures with the concept of human-focused UI. Since then, Samsung has revealed an upgraded TouchWiz with new functions whenever launching smartphones.

However, various functions featured in the form of software occupy a large proportion of the system capacity of smartphones. Therefore, consumers have complained about a delay in responsiveness. In a survey about the shortcomings of Galaxy phones conducted by US-based IT news site Phone Arena in November 2014, 43.32 percent of respondents said that TouchWiz is heavily featured.

My theory on Tizen is not that Samsung is trying to find an exit strategy against Google but that they are paying billions to MS for patent licensing and are hoping to get that back into the profit margin by using Tizen in smartwatchs/appliance/TV etc. Despite lots of press releases Tizen phone hasn't gotten much Samsung support at all.

[ccbs]

Do you have a link? I searched the web but could not find any confirmation of this. In any event, it doesn't change the original thought of creating an alternative to the OHA. Xiaomi just would not be a part of it.

I wonder how they will be recieved here in NA if they actually come and sell devices like pictured in this article? The HW and OS are somewhat ripoffs of Apple.

Five reasons why Xiaomi is a serious smartphone player - CNET

Lol, this gave me an impression that you don't have any experience or knowledge about MIUI at all.
Xiaomi started with its MIUI to provide Chinese local market an affordable IOS-mimic android handset. I have played with their MIUI built since 4 years ago with the Nexus 1. Their key executives are all Steve Jobs fans, and if you watched any of their keynotes, they wear exactly like Steve Jobs.

My point is that Xiaomi will only be partnered with Amazon for the ecosystem. BBRY will not be mentioned at all given that BBRY owned nothing in the ecosystem and are just authorized user of the Amazon apps/video/music store. BTW, Lenovo owns Motorola now and is already in the OHA.

[darkehawke]

From what I heard from Microsoft this is definitely not an option

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!

[LuvULongTime]

Lol, this gave me an impression that you don't have any experience or knowledge about MIUI at all.
Xiaomi started with its MIUI to provide Chinese local market an affordable IOS-mimic android handset. I have played with their MIUI built since 4 years ago with the Nexus 1. Their key executives are all Steve Jobs fans, and if you watched any of their keynotes, they wear exactly like Steve Jobs.

My point is that Xiaomi will only be partnered with Amazon for the ecosystem. BBRY will not be mentioned at all given that BBRY owned nothing in the ecosystem and are just authorized user of the Amazon apps/video/music store. BTW, Lenovo owns Motorola now and is already in the OHA.

I'm well aware of all of this. Somehow I don't think MIUI and Xiaomi's wannabe apple HW will be as well received in the USA as it is in China.

In terms of Lenovo, I completely forgot about their ownership of Motorola. As I said previously, it does not change the general idea of non-oha manufacturers pooling their resources together to creating a competing non Google store.

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