06-18-11 09:01 AM
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  1. rollingrock1988's Avatar
    RIM is bloody but not dead yet, RBC says

    In a note to investors Friday morning, RBC Capital Markets Managing Director Mike Abramsky lowered his target on shares of RIM stock from $45 to $35 with a Sector Perform rating. Following yesterday’s bloodbath, shares of RIM stock plummeted by as much as 19% after-hours on concerns surrounding RIM’s second-quarter and full-year outlook. The Waterloo, Ontario-based company slashed its full-year EPS outlook from $7.50 to between $5 and $6.50, and it said second-quarter earnings could be as low as $0.75 per share. Abramsky remains cautiously optimistic, however. “Disappointing Q1 results validates prior execution concerns amidst competitive pressures,” he writes. “Although it’s possible RIM fails to turn itself around, that outcome may be premature, we believe, given sustained positives.” The analyst notes 16% year-over-year growth, 68 million total subscribers, service growth and enterprise leadership among the yesterday’s bright spots, and says RIM’s strategy with QNX, TAT-built user interfaces and Android app support “remains sound.” He adds that the impact of BlackBerry 7 devices this fall and then QNX-based handsets, which are expected in the first quarter of 2012, could make RIM an “attractive acquisition candidate.”
    I couldn't see an acquisition but there is truth to what they are saying (the positive things I mean.)

    It's really just a waiting game at this point. Fingers crossed or something.
    06-17-11 10:16 AM
  2. allengeorge's Avatar
    I don't see an acquisition either, but I could be wrong. Everyone keeps touting Microsoft as a potential suitor, but I just don't see it. The two companies use vastly different platforms and have development teams with very, very different skillsets and strengths. The only thing they have in common is a reliance on Exchange and a few new partnerships over Bing integration/Office 365 hosted.

    My feeling is that RIM is in for a lonely ride, and everyone else is simply going to snipe at its market share on the high and low end.
    06-17-11 10:51 AM
  3. Ronindan's Avatar
    It is going to be a roller coster year for RIM, but I think they should be fine if they adapt to the fact that they could not survive on cornering the business market alone and that they need to become competitive in the consumer space as well. And not be shoved ut of that space by Apple and Google (Android).


    This message is approved by my transformer
    06-17-11 11:32 AM
  4. jusdis's Avatar
    I find it funny that a year ago all I read on here is how how rim needs to step up their hardware and make their phones faster. I read numerous posts about how they rush out devices and need to slow down and take their time perfecting them BEFORE they are released.

    Fast forward a year later. Now I'm reading comments about how rim needs to hurry up and release new devices NOW!!! I see comments made about OS7 and QNX being a fail. How many of you have actually HAD a device in your hands and used it with YOUR settings and apps and basically the way YOU would use it as an individual? How can you be so quick to judge?

    Now the funny part.....HALF THESE CONFLICTING COMMENTS ARE MADE BY THE SAME PEOPLE!!!!!

    Answer me this.....Do you want them to hurry and release new phones or do you want them to perfect them? I'm confused as to what you guys/girls REALLY want.

    The stop gap between OS7 and QNX.... Irrelevant. How many IPhone users buy the newest model EVERY YEAR?

    I understand that many of you are growing impatient, but that will also be the same reason many of us WILL get an OS7 device. Then when a QNX device comes, upgrade. Because there WILL be time in between the two. If we applied the "why buy this now if I have to buy a new phone next year" then we would all be just waiting. All the time waiting, because rest assured something newer and better will be out within the year.

    Basically it is the consumers demands for "bigger and better" that has escalated the phone wars and tech wars in general. Unfortunately, buying a new phone every year or so is the price we have to pay for OUR demands. Sooner we start realizing this is the easier it gets.
    Last edited by jusdis; 06-17-11 at 12:15 PM. Reason: opera mini wouldn't let me type anymore for some reason
    06-17-11 12:11 PM
  5. avt123's Avatar
    I've always said RIM should hurry and push out phones faster according to the competition. I have said for the past 2 years that RIM needs better hardware. I was flamed 2 years ago for saying this while still owning a BB, and now my thoughts have come to a reality.

    I am still looking forward to a QNX smartphone, but RIM really needs to get their **** together. Please get new management.
    06-17-11 12:13 PM
  6. johnenglish's Avatar
    I don't see why MS would buy them. MS has invested too much time and effort into it's OS to replace it with a completely new OS. As well MS doesn't want to make phones, they want to do what they know best; license they're OS to manufacturers.
    06-17-11 12:20 PM
  7. howarmat's Avatar
    I find it funny that a year ago all I read on here is how how rim needs to step up their hardware and make their phones faster. I read numerous posts about how they rush out devices and need to slow down and take their time perfecting them BEFORE they are released.

    Fast forward a year later. Now I'm reading comments about how rim needs to hurry up and release new devices NOW!!! I see comments made about OS7 and QNX being a fail. How many of you have actually HAD a device in your hands and used it with YOUR settings and apps and basically the way YOU would use it as an individual? How can you be so quick to judge?

    Now the funny part.....HALF THESE CONFLICTING COMMENTS ARE MADE BY THE SAME PEOPLE!!!!!

    Answer me this.....Do you want them to hurry and release new phones or do you want them to perfect them? I'm confused as to what you guys/girls REALLY want.

    The stop gap between OS7 and QNX.... Irrelevant. How many IPhone users buy the newest model EVERY YEAR?

    I understand that many of you are growing impatient, but that will also be the same reason many of us WILL get an OS7 device. Then when a QNX device comes, upgrade. Because there WILL be time in between the two. If we applied the "why buy this now if I have to buy a new phone next year" then we would all be just waiting. All the time waiting, because rest assured something newer and better will be out within the year.

    Basically it is the consumers demands for "bigger and better" that has escalated the phone wars and tech wars in general. Unfortunately, buying a new phone every year or so is the price we have to pay for OUR demands. Sooner we start realizing this is the easier it gets.
    they have had a long time to perfect them. How long ago did we see the bold touch, probably 1-1.5 years now. and we still wont see it for another 2-3 months. You are right people wanted them to slow down and perfect the products, we thought that is what they were doing with the PB. That was not close to true though. when we said they need to slow down and do things better that was assuming they started that process around 1 year ago and we would see those results 3 months ago and not 3 months from now
    grover5, 1magine, avt123 and 1 others like this.
    06-17-11 12:20 PM
  8. csiguy1's Avatar
    OK the way that I see it is that RIM needs to hire as many people, move as many people do whatever is necessary to get these new phones out NOW. If other companies can do it, RIM with its 3 Billion in cash reserves can throw enough money at it to make it happen. Then when they catch up they can work on other things but getting these phones out should be priority #1 not Playbook or anything else. Take care of your Core Business first then get fancy with Tablets etc. It is far easier to maintain current customers than to get new ones. So get after your Core Business and get these phones out and satisfy Business and Consumers and the sales will come. If you build it, they will come. IMHO
    Last edited by CSI Guy; 06-17-11 at 12:26 PM.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-17-11 12:24 PM
  9. Rooster99's Avatar
    ... I think they should be fine if they adapt to the fact that they could not survive on cornering the business market alone and that they need to become competitive in the consumer space as well. ...
    You know, I've been hearing this since I started on this site after buying my first Storm. How many years/models ago was that?

    If they haven't learned by now "... they need to become competitive in the consumer space as well.", when are they going to?

    I hope they do, I really hope they do, but I think both CEO's need to go. They've had their chances and blown every one.

    - R.
    anon1727506 likes this.
    06-17-11 12:32 PM
  10. Rooster99's Avatar
    ... Do you want them to hurry and release new phones or do you want them to perfect them? I'm confused as to what you guys/girls REALLY want. ...
    How about both?

    When I was learning about manufacturing in the late 80's, the mantra then in electronics was shortening product life cycles and rapid execution. It's 30 years later for Ch4ist's sake, and the co-CEO's admit that their product development was aiming in the wrong direction and now has taken too long to adjust.

    They're in the electronics business, and a sub-sector of electronics that is growing at 55%/year. They're not building washing machines or making coffee cups! Electronics = rapid change, it's as simple as that. Did they not learn from watching how HP built and owned the laser printer market?

    I mean really, faster releases of new and dramatically improved devices are table stakes moves in this market.

    So the short answer again is ... both!

    - R.
    06-17-11 12:40 PM
  11. 1magine's Avatar
    Solid devices, without buggy software released on a timely basis. It really doesn't seem like a difficult concept. Not releasing a SINGLE device for more than a YEAR and 8+ months into a new year is acceptable - HOW? To many of these fanboys simply enable this shipshow to continue. RIMM is on the precipice, not by my standards, THE FOUNDER OF CB, himself has pointed this out with some regularity. Some times with humor "I want my 9900!!" sometimes like yesterday with dead seriousness. Why not listen to him, or the founder of N4bb, or so many other BB sites. Or listen to those of us who pointed out 2+ years ago, that giiven the I-phones amazing popularity and instant acceptance, it was clear Apple did their market research. And what people wanted was large, media centric touchscreen devices, that can make calls and receive e-mails. The blazingly fast browser that put the internet in your hand was the cherry. It took RIM too long to respond, and they did so with the Storm, the worst piece of hardware, released with the worst software in RIM's history. How can they 3+ later first be figuring out that people want to store applications and not just media on the phone's memory? And how do some people not realize that it probably doesn't matter now.

    Let me just point out one tiny overlooked piece that talks to us everytime we look at these forums. "Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com" We see it all the time. Most BB users devices are so underpowered that they must still use a WAP site to post here from their device. If I ran RIM, each time I saw that, I would cringe.
    Last edited by 1magine; 06-17-11 at 12:47 PM.
    06-17-11 12:45 PM
  12. jusdis's Avatar
    I understand all of your different points. Its easier to SAY "do this and that and incorporate this then get it out there", than to just do it though. I agree with the PlayBook being put on the front burner. They should have focused on devices that more people would buy. Personally I think the release of the 4G model separate from the wifi only model was a big mistake. Announcing at the same time that it would be coming in a few months. I didn't buy the wifi because I'm waiting for the 4G. Not just for that but also so that most if not all the kinks from the first one were worked out already for the 4G model. I'm sure I'm not the only one either. Maybe not the newer Вlαckвєяяy users, but the longtime users such as myself who have grown accustomed to waiting. Think about how many times we have all said to ourselves "ahh its just a few more months" lol.
    MY THEORY.....They thought porting the Tablet OS to the phones was going to be moré simple than it turned out to be. They realized halfway into it that they needed to develop something new or upgrade something outdated. So instead of scratching everything they decided to focus on something that was almost complete so that POSSIBLY wouldn't suffer as big of a loss. Now that they have publicly addressed that situation I believe that they've focused their attention on the phones. And I think it will put an end to hundreds of different builds. OTA updates to address SPECIFIC issues. Rather than having to update the whole phone.
    Also think about the complications that came with acquiring the various companies they have acquired. Like putting a bunch of strangers in a room and telling them to solve a problem. It would probably take a bit before everyone were able to work together and get on the same page. Rim could have been saying "the hardware is fine" while TAT is saying " no, its not" The situation has been addressed and I think that they're now all on the same track.
    My one peeve is that they announce, then delay. Not for myself, I love my Вlαckвєяяy, but for all of you who are getting impatient. They SHOULD give you a better timeline so that you have the option to switch phones for the meantime if you feel the need too. Undersell then overachieve.
    Last edited by jusdis; 06-17-11 at 02:03 PM.
    06-17-11 02:01 PM
  13. shlammed's Avatar
    this is the same man who had a previous price target of $90 for RIMM
    06-17-11 05:35 PM
  14. shlammed's Avatar
    Solid devices, without buggy software released on a timely basis. It really doesn't seem like a difficult concept. Not releasing a SINGLE device for more than a YEAR and 8+ months into a new year is acceptable - HOW? To many of these fanboys simply enable this shipshow to continue. RIMM is on the precipice, not by my standards, THE FOUNDER OF CB, himself has pointed this out with some regularity. Some times with humor "I want my 9900!!" sometimes like yesterday with dead seriousness. Why not listen to him, or the founder of N4bb, or so many other BB sites. Or listen to those of us who pointed out 2+ years ago, that giiven the I-phones amazing popularity and instant acceptance, it was clear Apple did their market research. And what people wanted was large, media centric touchscreen devices, that can make calls and receive e-mails. The blazingly fast browser that put the internet in your hand was the cherry. It took RIM too long to respond, and they did so with the Storm, the worst piece of hardware, released with the worst software in RIM's history. How can they 3+ later first be figuring out that people want to store applications and not just media on the phone's memory? And how do some people not realize that it probably doesn't matter now.

    Let me just point out one tiny overlooked piece that talks to us everytime we look at these forums. "Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com" We see it all the time. Most BB users devices are so underpowered that they must still use a WAP site to post here from their device. If I ran RIM, each time I saw that, I would cringe.
    Why is that unacceptable? Apple releases one phone, once per year.

    The difference is, it's a much better product so it's worth waiting for.
    06-17-11 05:36 PM
  15. jebulls's Avatar
    I've always said RIM should hurry and push out phones faster according to the competition. I have said for the past 2 years that RIM needs better hardware. I was flamed 2 years ago for saying this while still owning a BB, and now my thoughts have come to a reality.

    I am still looking forward to a QNX smartphone, but RIM really needs to get their **** together. Please get new management.
    I can't imagine how the QNX transition will be for as difficult as this round of handsets have gone?! I was looking forward to the 9930! Would probably have gotten it if it was out now. But with all the delays, it's getting harder wait!
    06-17-11 05:44 PM
  16. jebulls's Avatar
    Why is that unacceptable? Apple releases one phone, once per year.

    The difference is, it's a much better product so it's worth waiting for.
    I think what is hurting BB is when they release a phone it's so far behind from the competition. So basically we wait and wait and then when it comes out it's behind, it leaves us wanting more!(Well, thats the case for me)
    06-17-11 05:46 PM
  17. avt123's Avatar
    I can't imagine how the QNX transition will be for as difficult as this round of handsets have gone?! I was looking forward to the 9930! Would probably have gotten it if it was out now. But with all the delays, it's getting harder wait!
    Yea. IMO I would just get something that is out now. If you want a RIM device, IMO I'd wait till when QNX reaches their smartphones.

    The 9930 looks great and all, but I wanted that two years ago when I had my 9000. For me, RIM missed the mark.
    06-17-11 06:29 PM
  18. avt123's Avatar
    I think what is hurting BB is when they release a phone it's so far behind from the competition. So basically we wait and wait and then when it comes out it's behind, it leaves us wanting more!(Well, thats the case for me)
    You wait and wait and wait for hardware that is already outdated, that when it finally comes out, it's really outdated. RIM has been like this for a while. This is one of the main things they NEED to change.
    06-17-11 06:30 PM
  19. jebulls's Avatar
    Yea. IMO I would just get something that is out now. If you want a RIM device, IMO I'd wait till when QNX reaches their smartphones.

    The 9930 looks great and all, but I wanted that two years ago when I had my 9000. For me, RIM missed the mark.
    I was hoping to c some 9930 vs iphone browser compare vids and all that good stuff first. For me it's tough time to want I phone. It would be either the 9930 or an iphone. Well, who knows when the 9930 will come out and then as nice as the iphone seems it's getting closer to iphone 5. So as bad as I want to upgrade, I think waiting out the summer wouldn't hurt!
    06-17-11 06:55 PM
  20. avt123's Avatar
    I was hoping to c some 9930 vs iphone browser compare vids and all that good stuff first. For me it's tough time to want I phone. It would be either the 9930 or an iphone. Well, who knows when the 9930 will come out and then as nice as the iphone seems it's getting closer to iphone 5. So as bad as I want to upgrade, I think waiting out the summer wouldn't hurt!
    Yep I would definitely wait till the fall to see what's good.
    06-17-11 07:00 PM
  21. diapers's Avatar
    You wait and wait and wait for hardware that is already outdated, that when it finally comes out, it's really outdated. RIM has been like this for a while. This is one of the main things they NEED to change.
    How long did it take for RIM to come out with a better faster browser? A LONG TIME, they got beat by Apple and Google when everyone was complaining about how horribly slow their browser was. How many years did we hear "a better browser is coming"?. They continued the same trend with underpowered hardware, the much anticipated Touch a complete turd (from a storm 2 user).

    I never had any problems with their oses (other than the slow browser) and can't quite understand why they focus so much on the software. They need better hardware and better hardware fast. Nobody cares about OS7, I did not upgrade from Storm2 to Touch because for 500$ there were too many other good choices out there. Loyalty can only last so long
    06-17-11 07:05 PM
  22. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Reminds me of an old sign...

    You can have it:
    Good
    Fast
    Cheap
    (You can only pick two)
    06-17-11 07:32 PM
  23. 123berryaddicted's Avatar
    I can't imagine how the QNX transition will be for as difficult as this round of handsets have gone?! I was looking forward to the 9930! Would probably have gotten it if it was out now. But with all the delays, it's getting harder wait!
    i agree with you, i really would love a 9900 and would buy it tomorrow if i could. Sadly though if it is relesed august/sept it will be much easier for me to hold off and see what iPhone5 and iMess looks like....
    06-17-11 07:39 PM
  24. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Reminds me of an old sign...

    You can have it:
    Good
    Fast
    Cheap
    (You can only pick two)
    That's called the triple constraints in program management. Scope, schedule and cost. And it's so very true.

    Scope, Time and Cost – Managing the Triple Constraint « Program Success
    Last edited by Qbnkelt; 06-17-11 at 07:46 PM.
    06-17-11 07:41 PM
  25. avt123's Avatar
    i agree with you, i really would love a 9900 and would buy it tomorrow if i could. Sadly though if it is relesed august/sept it will be much easier for me to hold off and see what iPhone5 and iMess looks like....
    I am on iOS5 right now. I only know one other person with it, but iMessage is great so far. Delivery is instant, same with receiving. Same goes with typing notifications (like when someone is replying to you). It's been buttery smooth so far.
    06-17-11 07:44 PM
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