01-16-13 02:49 PM
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  1. ralfyguy's Avatar
    It almost seems to me that Apple is behaving like RIM a few years ago and think that they're on top and can afford to sit on their butts now. they did put out new devices, but no innovation. Same 'ol stuff every time.
    RIM did the same and look what happened to them.
    I'm not a friend of Steve Jobs, but i think that Tim Cook is an amateur against Jobs.
    01-15-13 08:12 AM
  2. whitbags's Avatar
    It almost seems to me that Apple is behaving like RIM a few years ago and think that they're on top and can afford to sit on their butts now. they did put out new devices, but no innovation. Same 'ol stuff every time.
    RIM did the same and look what happened to them.
    I'm not a friend of Steve Jobs, but i think that Tim Cook is an amateur against Jobs.
    Without being able to look into the future it is difficult to know, but what you say feels absolutely right. That said we have no idea what iOS7 and the next iPhone will look like; it might be really innovative.

    However thinking about what you say, and feeling the 'rightness' of it, I suspect an iPhone 5S won't cut it and could actually worsen the perception of OS stagnation @ Apple. Interesting times.
    01-15-13 08:37 AM
  3. christenmartin's Avatar
    It almost seems to me that Apple is behaving like RIM a few years ago and think that they're on top and can afford to sit on their butts now. they did put out new devices, but no innovation. Same 'ol stuff every time.
    RIM did the same and look what happened to them.
    I'm not a friend of Steve Jobs, but i think that Tim Cook is an amateur against Jobs.
    I totally agree. I kind of feel like they peaked some where between the 4 and the 4s. I have not been impressed with iphones, meaning I do not think they have been "cutting edge" for some time. Now, people who where big apple fans are having that same prospective. I've been a little surprised at the people I know stepping away from apple for something else. They look at the iphone 5 and walk away. If it is a price issue, which I disagree with they have always been expensive, than the 4 and 4s should pickup that slack.
    01-15-13 08:52 AM
  4. christenmartin's Avatar
    Without being able to look into the future it is difficult to know, but what you say feels absolutely right. That said we have no idea what iOS7 and the next iPhone will look like; it might be really innovative.

    However thinking about what you say, and feeling the 'rightness' of it, I suspect an iPhone 5S won't cut it and could actually worsen the perception of OS stagnation @ Apple. Interesting times.
    Exactly, and what does that remind you of? BB 5 years ago? When you get on top you get fat and happy.
    jakie55 likes this.
    01-15-13 08:54 AM
  5. lorax1284's Avatar
    With the competition from Samsung (and Apple's cut-off-their-nose-to-spite-their-face search for alternative suppliers) Apple is certainly taking notice.

    What CONSUMERS are noticing is that the excitement is gone. But I tell you, when I look over someone's shoulder on the subway looking for their device password (KIDDING!) just looking at that beautiful iPhone 4S / 5 screen how it looks like a glossy page of paper, and how smoothly it scrolls when you swipe etc., it's impossible not to give Apple respect and be jealous of that UX.... but I don't have to be jealous, I have an iPad and an iPod touch but when I used the iPhone 3GS for my phone for 4 months, I was constantly frustrated by it as a communication device... I was skeptical when I took it on, and was relieved when I adopted a Bold 9000. Nothing in the iPhone 4S or 5 fixes what was wrong (for me) with the iPhone as a communication device.

    So, there are lots of users out there who have the iOS experience without it being their phone. If Apple had made ONLY the iPhone, not the iPod Touch or iPad, and the only way to get the iOS user experience was the iPhone, I bet the iPhone market share would be higher... but you can get iOS UX anywhere, like crabs or dirt... so now consumers looking for a PHONE are in a "been there done that" situation. If you already have an iPod Touch, is there any joy-of-discovery with the iPhone? Not so much.

    With that in mind, maybe it's a good thing that there are relatively few PlayBooks in the marketplace, because if the stellar BB10 experience is (relatively) EXCLUSIVELY available on a not-cheap platform with a cellular radio, then RIM has a chance to really own the "connected" world.

    I mean RIMs QNX strategy only works when all the devices on that platform have at least a chance of communicating with every other device... without NFC or something else easy to use, a cellular radio is the logical distance-defying option.

    And get this... in a world of connected devices where you can start your CAR with your phone, do you WANT it to be insecure, and travel UNENCRYPTED across public networks? No, you want the security of an end-to-end encrypted communication... and that's where the already-built-and-working RIM network infrastructure comes in.

    RIM is poised not only to sell a lot of devices. They're poised to become Google-esque (only without all the privacy issues and data mining).
    00stryder likes this.
    01-15-13 08:56 AM
  6. TomJasper's Avatar
    Problem with apple is they need a new OS and innovation from the consumer side. Their margins are and will be under attack from the financial side. Put those two together and it's not a rosy picture going forward, dare I say a dire future. Now add on top the ever increasing media/analyst negative sentiment and you know you would be on the wrong horse.

    RIM paid their dues, bust their b§lls and now we move forward with media/analysts/bloggers/ etc filling our sails.

    It's a time to be proud!

    Onward BB10 , it's our time!!

    It almost seems to me that Apple is behaving like RIM a few years ago and think that they're on top and can afford to sit on their butts now. they did put out new devices, but no innovation. Same 'ol stuff every time.
    RIM did the same and look what happened to them.
    I'm not a friend of Steve Jobs, but i think that Tim Cook is an amateur against Jobs.
    01-15-13 09:54 AM
  7. texazzpete's Avatar
    I mean RIMs QNX strategy only works when all the devices on that platform have at least a chance of communicating with every other device... without NFC or something else easy to use, a cellular radio is the logical distance-defying option.

    And get this... in a world of connected devices where you can start your CAR with your phone, do you WANT it to be insecure, and travel UNENCRYPTED across public networks? No, you want the security of an end-to-end encrypted communication... and that's where the already-built-and-working RIM network infrastructure comes in.

    RIM is poised not only to sell a lot of devices. They're poised to become Google-esque (only without all the privacy issues and data mining).
    There's no chance in **** that any car manufacturer will integrate QNX in their car and leave critical features exclusive to BB10 which has little chance of overtaking the iOS and Android behemoths in the near future.
    There's no major advantage to be had there in the near to mid term.
    The whole 'secure' stuff is not the reason why most people are still buying Blackberries.

    I don't know about RIM becoming 'Google-esque' anytime soon, but if they do, those of you who bought shares at $5 should be extremely happy
    01-15-13 10:57 AM
  8. lorax1284's Avatar
    It's a time to be proud!
    ...but ...but... I was ALREADY proud. Proud in that "I know something you don't know" way, when reading blogs that were dissing RIM... also proud in a "I can do that job better than they can" way because the flawed analysis and spurious conclusions were positively common w.r.t. RIM's fortunes and the prospects for BlackBerry 10, and also proud in a "I'm smarter than them" way because what is obvious to us, was somehow mysterious, confusing, unknowable or incomprehensible to them.

    Now, when the press turns positive, I can be proud in the "watching a baby discover that water is wet" kind of way w.r.t. the tech bloggers.

    "Awwww... look at the wee bairns... so cute, figuring out for themselves something I already know..."

    I clearly place too much "pride" in being better than other people. Maybe Dr. Phil can help.

    There's no major advantage to be had there in the near to mid term.
    The whole 'secure' stuff is not the reason why most people are still buying Blackberries.
    Agreed... but I'm not talking near- to mid-term.

    And people don't mind if their "I just bought new shoes! Aren't they DARLING?" tweets are secure, but they will care if their "phone" is also their car keys, their bank card, their health card, the contents of their entire BRAIN basically. Well, I think they will care. Never underestimate the ability of the public to set aside their best interests for the promise of something "shiny".
    Last edited by lorax1284; 01-15-13 at 11:25 AM.
    Jake Storm likes this.
    01-15-13 10:59 AM
  9. donmateo's Avatar
    Why could it not be causation? If somebody was thinking of purchasing an iphone and before purchase heard about BB10 and as such decided to wait for BB10, then one less iphone sale would be causation of that one purchase decline. Might be more to the OP thread title yet.
    I didn't say it couldn't, but it can't be proven yet, therefore the claim cannot be made.
    01-15-13 12:30 PM
  10. playbooker_t's Avatar
    No, Apple sales are down because their jailbreak app sites are rapidly vanishing. Apple is basically biting the hand that feeds them.
    01-15-13 02:58 PM
  11. undone's Avatar
    Is this part of that anti-Apple conspiracy I've been hearing so much about? :-)
    It's funny how true that is. The media is like a shark that smells blood, Apple seems to be its latest victim.
    01-15-13 03:03 PM
  12. adrenaline_x's Avatar
    You had to Jailbreak them to recover the feature sets you had available on other phones.. The BB and Android, with there swipe down or touching the top of the phone allowing you to turn on/off settings is a big plus and the main reason i jailbroke my 3g,3gs and 4.. But I've left apple behind.. they are not cutting edge or cool anymore.

    The s3 is rocking it pretty hard, but i'm still getting a bb10 to try out.. I don't know if it will make me stick to bb.. But i will give it a fighting chance.
    01-15-13 03:04 PM
  13. playbooker_t's Avatar
    "who the heck is steve hobs? "

    Top reply on Google: hxxp://www.facebook.com/steve.hobs.77

    Is answer question?
    01-15-13 03:05 PM
  14. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    I do not understand this WP versus BB 10. Why would either one go after such a small customer base? They wouldn't its just smoke and mirrors. they are both trying to peel of apple and android users. There is plenty there. If any thing WP and BB 10 should be working in coordination, not together just in coordination. The way google is acting up a bit and how apple always acts BB and WP should just make sure they are on the same page because once again 3 place is way down there and not worth fighting over right now.
    Think of it like a race. If you're in 3rd place, you have to catch the next racer in front of you BEFORE you can go after the leader.
    01-15-13 03:54 PM
  15. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    I'm sure Apple will be back in the swing of things with a more up to date phone with the iPhone 6. As we all know, the last few models have been deal busters....

    This may seem like a "troll" but that isn't my intention...
    So, are you saying the iPhone 5S is going to be another mediocre upgrade?

    I'm willing to hold out for the 6...
    01-15-13 03:59 PM
  16. infamyx's Avatar
    Its bemusing that people think Apples iPhone sales are down simply because they aren't purchasing as many screens and other fab pieces (if the failure rate on assembly of the iPhone 5 was high due to scuffgate and other issues then why would they only make just enough???) when in all likelihood they have an acceptable yield on phones made and dont need to over order components?

    Now as to the operating system iOS is getting quite stale and needs a breath of fresh air that i'm sure Jony Ive will bring, but in true Apple fashion just adding features is pointless they need to be SEAMLESS AND EASY TO USE which will be the true challenge to implement many of the much needed new changes.

    As for the hardware, well lets be honest no one is building anything better than Apple right now lets just be real with ourselves lol. From materials to components, Apple boasts far and away the best device bar none. Samsung and Qualcomm still cant touch Apples A-series chips and the iPhone 5 screen is still at the top of the heap with the only competition in the One X and Nexus 4/Optimus G, and the camera is heralded as the best on any phone other than the 920 in lowlight situations.

    So while sales for the iPhone 5 aren't slumping at all, i do think RIM can capitalize immensely if they are ready to launch come Feb since they will be right before the next wave of phones from Android.
    01-15-13 06:05 PM
  17. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    Problem with apple is they need a new OS and innovation from the consumer side. Their margins are and will be under attack from the financial side. Put those two together and it's not a rosy picture going forward, dare I say a dire future.
    Absurd. They have $120 billion in cash on hand. What does $120 billion in cash mean? In 2012, Apple spent about $10 billion on operations, and another $3 billion on R&D. Let's assume for the moment Apple stops selling everything, doesn't sell a single Mac, iPad, iPod, or iPhone. Even with current spending, meaning they don't fire a single employee and assuming Apple earns 0% interest on the $120 billion, Apple can continue at its current pace for another 9 years. Let's add a little interest to that, say they buy bonds at 3%. That earns them close to $4 billion in its initial year, and lesser amounts over subsequent years as they reduce their bond holdings, but that's enough to get them to about 12 years, again, without selling a single thing, and not firing a single employee. Let's say they hand over the $120 billion to Warren Buffet to manage, and he gets them a 7% return. That's enough to get them to close to 25 years, again, without selling a single thing, without firing a single employee, and continuing its current pace of R&D.

    Those are obviously ridiculous scenarios. Apple will of course continue to sell things. Let's say though, instead of earning about $10 billion per quarter, they start losing money. Let's say they start losing $5 billion per year. $120 billion lets them continue at that pace of cash burn for 24 years, without earning a penny in interest on their $120 billion. If Apple buys bonds at 3%, losing $5 billion per year lets them continue for like 70 years. Anything over 4% lets them continue indefinitely, while losing $5 billion per year on operations.

    Apple's not going anywhere, not for the foreseeable future, and not for a long time after that too, and it's absurd to think otherwise.
    jakie55 likes this.
    01-15-13 06:09 PM
  18. derpOverflow's Avatar
    The biggest threat Apple has is that nothing is cool forever. Eventually people will stop caring that you have the new iPhone/iPad/iEtc even if they are good products and that will make a considerable hit to their revenue. They'll still be a $300+ billion company and that is still staggering.
    01-15-13 06:39 PM
  19. anon(2325196)'s Avatar
    What's an iphone?
    01-15-13 08:43 PM
  20. TomJasper's Avatar
    Absurd. Apple's not going anywhere, not for the foreseeable future, and not for a long time after that too, and it's absurd to think otherwise.
    Apple will be the next Nortel imo.
    01-16-13 12:42 AM
  21. pooger's Avatar
    Apple is lucky though because they have 100 billion in cash and they can learn from rimm's mistake. Take the opportunity now while they're on top to develop a radically new os.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9930
    jakie55 likes this.
    01-16-13 12:56 AM
  22. joshua_sx1's Avatar
    RE: Apple sales are down directly because RIM's new devices are coming soon

    OK... so let's wait until someone posted "RIM BB10 failed because Apple's new devices are coming soon"... is that even possible? the point is, it is irrelevant that the sales of some devices "shrink" because of devices that are not yet in the market... regardless, it is RIM to Apple, or vice versa... it has to be realistic to claim something real...

    Apple sales are down directly because of new Android devices - is much acceptable...

    Just trying to be more realistic...
    robitaille93 likes this.
    01-16-13 12:57 AM
  23. robitaille93's Avatar
    RE: Apple sales are down directly because RIM's new devices are coming soon

    OK... so let's wait until someone posted "RIM BB10 failed because Apple's new devices are coming soon"... is that even possible? the point is, it is irrelevant that the sales of some devices "shrink" because of devices that are not yet in the market... regardless, it is RIM to Apple, or vice versa... it has to be realistic to claim something real...

    Apple sales are down directly because of new Android devices - is much acceptable...

    Just trying to be more realistic...
    Yeah I was going to say the exact same thing. Why would iPhone sales be down due to a device not on the market (and a smaller audience is clamoring for it). It's like the OP was ignoring everything else going on in the market so he could make a point. It's fairly obvious the decline in the iPhone is due to increased android competition (eg. GS3) and a lack of innovation on Apple's part. I swear some of the people on this forum are starting to go insane from the wait for BB10.
    01-16-13 01:07 AM
  24. web99's Avatar
    RE: Apple sales are down directly because RIM's new devices are coming soon

    OK... so let's wait until someone posted "RIM BB10 failed because Apple's new devices are coming soon"... is that even possible? the point is, it is irrelevant that the sales of some devices "shrink" because of devices that are not yet in the market... regardless, it is RIM to Apple, or vice versa... it has to be realistic to claim something real...

    Apple sales are down directly because of new Android devices - is much acceptable...

    Just trying to be more realistic...
    + 1. I also did not agree with the title as BB10 is not yet on the market.
    01-16-13 02:21 AM
  25. G-bone's Avatar
    [QUOTE=lorax1284;7851889]
    So, maybe Apple just placed orders in line with a "best case scenario" and that didn't happen, but sales are STILL strong and just not as super crazy impossibly strong as they projected. This hardly casts a pall on Apple... if anything it shows that the iPhone 4S device is pretty darn good, and people don't really need the faster process or few more pixels on the screen in order to have an excellent user experience with the iPhone 4S. I'd recommend a refurbished iPhone 4S over an iPhone 5 solely because the UX on the 4S is 90% as good for 60% of the price"
    Or maybe Apple just peaked with the 4s?
    #BB10Believe
    01-16-13 03:47 AM
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