04-18-16 12:33 AM
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  1. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    I read something today that seemed to clear a few things up:

    The iPhone in question was regularly backing itself to icloud, and Apple provided the FBI with access to icloud backup data on their servers.

    However at some point the FBI changed the password or pin on the account, and that requires the icloud connection to be reauthenticated on the device.

    Once they did that, they basically lost access to any new device data that would have otherwise been automatically backed up to icloud.

    So... now they're asking for a way to break into the device.


    Sounds like Apple did collaborate in the way they can (provide access to their server data), and the investigators messed up.

    Posted via CB10
    I read that too. But if the FBI changed the password, wouldn't the FBI know what the new password was? There is something missing from this story.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.2.2876
    BB-Xelet likes this.
    02-21-16 12:37 PM
  2. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    I read that too. But if the FBI changed the password, wouldn't the FBI know what the new password was? There is something missing from this story.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.2.2876
    I think they changed the iCloud account password, but the device had a separate pin?



    Posted via CB10
    02-21-16 01:21 PM
  3. Alain_A's Avatar
    even to change any password on any devices or cloud, don't you need to confirm the old password to make it in effect?
    02-21-16 01:46 PM
  4. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    even to change any password on any devices or cloud, don't you need to confirm the old password to make it in effect?
    They have access to the iCloud account (provided by Apple). This is separate from the device.

    Posted via CB10
    02-21-16 02:49 PM
  5. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    I read that too. But if the FBI changed the password, wouldn't the FBI know what the new password was? There is something missing from this story.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.2.2876
    I think they changed the iCloud account password, but the device had a separate pin?



    Posted via CB10
    even to change any password on any devices or cloud, don't you need to confirm the old password to make it in effect?
    This sounds like two-factor authentication was (is) in effect, so the catch-22 is that they need the original password/code to unlock the device to confirm the change.
    02-21-16 02:57 PM
  6. Alain_A's Avatar
    They have access to the iCloud account (provided by Apple). This is separate from the device.

    Posted via CB10
    ok I have ITunes which has a password. So you are saying that Apple has and can read my password on that account?
    02-21-16 05:17 PM
  7. sorinv's Avatar
    I would think that they have root access to the icloud and can look at anyone's files. The same likely applies to your phone and Mac.
    They do not need to know your password.
    02-21-16 05:39 PM
  8. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    ok I have ITunes which has a password. So you are saying that Apple has and can read my password on that account?
    I don't think they can read your actual password. Most authentication systems just store a hash, to which the password you enter when you log in gets compared against (after the text is hashed as well).

    What they can do is access the stored data by manually querying database tables, etc. Without having to enter the password (which is really just for front-facing access control).

    Posted via CB10
    02-21-16 05:53 PM
  9. Alain_A's Avatar
    I don't think they can read your actual password. Most authentication systems just store a hash, to which the password you enter when you log in gets compared against (after the text is hashed as well).

    What they can do is access the stored data by manually querying database tables, etc. Without having to enter the password (which is really just for front-facing access control).

    Posted via CB10
    which make the cloud or any cloud not safe?
    02-21-16 06:02 PM
  10. ALToronto's Avatar
    I read something today that seemed to clear a few things up:

    The iPhone in question was regularly backing itself to icloud, and Apple provided the FBI with access to icloud backup data on their servers.

    However at some point the FBI changed the password or pin on the account, and that requires the icloud connection to be reauthenticated on the device.

    Once they did that, they basically lost access to any new device data that would have otherwise been automatically backed up to icloud.

    So... now they're asking for a way to break into the device.


    Sounds like Apple did collaborate in the way they can (provide access to their server data), and the investigators messed up.

    Posted via CB10
    Not quite correct. Farook himself stopped automatic backups to iCloud some time in October, presumably when he was 'activated' (and I don't believe for a moment that he was acting alone, he was most likely a sleeper) and started making concrete plans to strike - getting weapons, financial support, etc.

    Then, following the attack, the IT administrator at the city reset the handset (no idea why he would do that), so the FBI were no longer able to restore automatic backups to iCloud, where they could have accessed the data. Hence the debacle.

    Now, John McAfee has claimed that he and his team of elite hackers can crack the iPhone in 3 weeks, or he will eat his shoe live on TV. I hope the FBI will take him up on it.

    Posted via CB10 from my awesome Passport
    02-21-16 06:35 PM
  11. neoberry99's Avatar
    Then why can't the FBI get into it?
    My guess is that they already have the info.. They just covering their butts for future request. Cmon think about who we're talking about....

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    02-21-16 07:43 PM
  12. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    iOS is the more secure because attention to security is focused at the app level as much as it is at the operating system level. If you don't have a secure app, it doesn't matter how secure the operating system is. So the fact that the Apple Store is curated, that provides a level of security that you don't get today from the rest of apple's competitors, blackberry included.
    How is ios secure at an app level when ios apps can be modified after they're made. Unlike BB10.

    All apple is doing is blocking third party software from installing apps. Something millions of users in the past have learned how to "bypass ".

    Posted via CB10
    02-21-16 08:16 PM
  13. Alain_A's Avatar
    he was most likely a sleeper
    it thought it was said that he was born in US and it's his wife that dragged him into that
    02-21-16 09:55 PM
  14. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    Cross-app access vulnerability finally fixed in iOS?

    One dodgy app could siphon all the datas.... :-D

      There's a Crack in the Berry right now...  
    IndianTiwari and BB-Xelet like this.
    02-21-16 10:03 PM
  15. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    This topic has made it quite clear that many around here who claim to know how secure each OS is are actually clueless. Seems some have never even used iOS or used it back in the iOS 5 and 6 days.
    02-22-16 12:50 AM
  16. mkelley65's Avatar
    Any device that can be rooted or jail broken is inherently less secure. Even the latest iPhone can still be jail broken. Let me know when someone roots a BlackBerry.
    02-22-16 02:21 AM
  17. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    I think they changed the iCloud account password, but the device had a separate pin?



    Posted via CB10
    We can each believe whatever we want, including whether law enforcement can compell that kind of assistance in the US. The latter will be decided in the courts though, not by public opinion.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.2.2876
    02-22-16 04:34 AM
  18. ALToronto's Avatar
    it thought it was said that he was born in US and it's his wife that dragged him into that
    However he got radicalized, he became an agent of Daesh, and was likely told to carry on as before until he was called to action. He also had travelled to Middle East where he could have gotten training.

    There are plenty of US-born sleeper agents.

    Posted via CB10 from my awesome Passport
    02-22-16 07:22 AM
  19. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    Any device that can be rooted or jail broken is inherently less secure. Even the latest iPhone can still be jail broken. Let me know when someone roots a BlackBerry.
    To root/jailbreak you have to have physical access to the device and it can't be password protected.

    Using basic security practices an iPhone or Android can be just as safe from rooting/jailbreaking as a BlackBerry.

    Posted from my  Q10 via CB10
    02-22-16 08:23 AM
  20. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    When you set up your iPhone, backing up to iCloud requires that you opt-in. I believe you actually have to log in with your user name and password, too.

    Having iCloud enabled is not required to use an iPhone.

    Posted from my  Q10 via CB10
    02-22-16 08:27 AM
  21. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    When you set up your iPhone, backing up to iCloud requires that you opt-in. I believe you actually have to log in with your user name and password, too.

    Having iCloud enabled is not required to use an iPhone.

    Posted from my  Q10 via CB10
    Yeah sure, BB10 is also fully functional without consumer grade BBM, BlackBerry Protected and cloud back-up of Password Keeper.

    People come here so often telling us that BBRY and BB10 cannot be trusted because they would hand out information related to BBM traffic to LEA, but totally ignore the fact Apple, Google and Microsoft (and others) do the same for their services.
    02-22-16 09:19 AM
  22. Velocitymj's Avatar
    What the FBI wants is a software hack that will change how all iPhones get wiped after 10 password tries. BlackBerry phone will also wipe after 10 incorrect password tries. No difference.

    Posted via the Diva's beautiful Red Passport!
    With regards to the present stand off between Apple and the FBI, you are incorrect.
    It has nothing to do with how the phone is wiped.
    The FBI is asking Apple to hack that one phone.
    That phone has the latest iOS on it.
    This request would require Apple to build a new OS with a back door and install that on the shooter's iPhone 6 in order to retrieve the data that was on it.

    While both Apple and Google have been staunchly against built in back doors, John Chen has publicly stated he is not opposed to providing a means for the government(s) to access BB's OS to retrieve data.


    Posted via CB10
    02-22-16 03:04 PM
  23. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    With regards to the present stand off between Apple and the FBI, you are incorrect.
    It has nothing to do with how the phone is wiped.
    The FBI is asking Apple to hack that one phone.
    That phone has the latest iOS on it.
    This request would require Apple to build a new OS with a back door and install that on the shooter's iPhone 6 in order to retrieve the data that was on it.

    While both Apple and Google have been staunchly against built in back doors, John Chen has publicly stated he is not opposed to providing a means for the government(s) to access BB's OS to retrieve data.


    Posted via CB10
    They aren't asking Apple to open it. The FBI wants Apple to create software that will allow them to keep trying to brute force the phone.
    02-22-16 03:27 PM
  24. TgeekB's Avatar
    How much longer is this argument going to go on, like it's going to somehow improve BB10 sales?
    02-22-16 03:29 PM
  25. bobshine's Avatar
    The iPhone is currently better. Chen just bends over for the Governments.

    And yes, they can log your info, your bbm messages can also be unscrambled, since they don't use any encryption, just a common key.

    The only way they are more protected is with full BES. Otherwise they are just as weak of a target.

    Posted via -sigh- Priv. Guess we have to get used to Android guys....
    I thought apple did that too! In fact, they provide iMessage history and iCloud storage to the FBI. They even provided in the past assistance into decrypting and images of the memory of older IPhones.

    So can you explain to me how Apple is more secure?

    Posted via CB10
    02-22-16 03:50 PM
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