10-21-16 05:50 PM
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  1. KAM1138's Avatar
    Hello Everyone,

    With the decision of BlackBerry to pursue Android Devices and halt any development of BB10, various people in these forums and elsewhere proclaimed this was the ONLY path. BB10 was stated to be DOA (before release even), and that it had no future.

    Well, here we are about a year later, and my question is...did taking the Android Path really help? Now, I'm actually LOOKING for some hard information (which seems a bit elusive).

    1) What happened to device sales and Market share for Blackberry labeled phones?
    2) Did Android Devices outsell BB10 Devices (obviously new phones might have a chance to outsell older models)

    My view has been that it probably wouldn't matter what device they released of what form, if they didn't do the work to fix their brand image. I don't see that they have done that, so my general view is that they've stayed the course, and no surprise--there isn't much improvement.

    On the other hand, why would one expect much improvement in an area that they are clearly not that interested in ("BlackBerry is a Software company.").

    I guess the bottom line--how things APPEAR, is that choosing to follow this Android Path, and dumping BB10, really had almost no effect in regards to hardware. It didn't result in a turn around, and any improvement (or decline) seems to be a blip--meaning their sales continue to be quite small.

    Now, my view is that there is a possibility that entering the Android arena MIGHT have some benefits moving forward if they are able to get their Hub+ (or other software) to take off, but again...that would require a significant marketing effort. BBM seems to be treated as a joke these days--and they've abandoned things like Blackberry Link, so I'm not sure how serious they are in regard to ANY consumer software.

    But what are the ACTUAL numbers. HAS Android been a winner in regards to Hardware? I'll share just my little bit. I actually DID buy a DTEK50--I wanted to see if they could bring a BlackBerry experience to Android, so I guess they sold ME, but I'm less than impressed. It is a decent phone, and I'm not sorry I bought it, but it doesn't begin to compare to the Passport SE (or my old Z10 for that matter) in regards to what I use a mobile communications device for.

    So, I'd welcome anyone's opinion on why going to Android WAS a success (or perhaps will lead to future success). If your analysis is "well, BB10 was a failure so..." you can save your breath. BB10 is an (effectively) abandoned platform. I want to hear what the RESULTS of the choice to pursue Android are (in your opinion).

    KAM
    Sallem likes this.
    09-29-16 09:27 AM
  2. SunshineStateFlyer's Avatar
    Somehow it was just life support for BlackBerry's phone business. They were late to the game on so many levels. By the time they had a decent product, brand recognition was about zero. And honestly, why should I go for an Android BlackBerry?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    murphcid and rt2567 like this.
    09-29-16 09:38 AM
  3. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    At this point I don't think anyone is really saying that Android was a success.... it was a chance, and I'm glad they at least tired.

    No Android didn't save the BlackBerry hardware division as some here hoped it might. But the story for Android and BlackBerry isn't fully over yet... so in that way at least it has been a success.
    09-29-16 09:44 AM
  4. KAM1138's Avatar
    Somehow it was just life support for BlackBerry's phone business. They were late to the game on so many levels. By the time they had a decent product, brand recognition was about zero. And honestly, why should I go for an Android BlackBerry?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Yes, BRAND RECOGNITION...the thing that many people seem to dismiss and think that a shift in OS will solve (and apparently didn't, or made things even worse--although so close to zero, it is hard to say).

    I always thought that Blackberry Powered by Android was backwards. Rather, I wonder if Samsung Powered by Blackberry wouldn't have been a better path--at least for a potential Niche Market--small, but perhaps sustainable.

    KAM
    togarika and murphcid like this.
    09-29-16 09:45 AM
  5. KAM1138's Avatar
    At this point I don't think anyone is really saying that Android was a success.... it was a chance, and I'm glad they at least tired.

    No Android didn't save the BlackBerry hardware division as some here hoped it might. But the story for Android and BlackBerry isn't fully over yet... so in that way at least it has been a success.
    And what is that story potentially? A blooming of BlackBerry Software solutions on Android?

    I guess Blackberry is in the depressing state where we are left to wonder--did THIS failure path end up worse than their other Failure path?

    PERSONALLY, as a consumer, I'd rather have had a few more BB10 devices, and perhaps an update actually hit, rather than a handful of failed Android Devices. I have MANY choices for a generic Android Device--and while I do like some of the BB10-lite features, it really doesn't make that much of a difference when compared to a real BB10 experience.
    I don't need the Apps (and apparently neither does 50% of all users, by some recent reports), so a maintained BB10 could last me indefinitely, and I'd keep buying new devices for as long as they produced them.

    I have the DTEK50--it's essentially a toy for me, and I can't see any reason I would need the DTEK60 at this point (just a more powerful toy). I'm not sure about the Mercury or any other device that has a Tiny little BBRY logo somewhere hidden so people don't know to NOT buy it. I'd be happy to consider it, especially if they improve the BB10-ish experience via Software.

    KAM
    Sallem and Q10Bold like this.
    09-29-16 09:52 AM
  6. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Android was the right path in 2007-2008 for BlackBerry instead of continuing with BBOS and then BB10. They could have rode the BBOS revenue stream into 2013 in securing government and corporate sectors and been major Android player in consumer sector. At same time, BlackBerry could have been securing Android for those demanding it. They blew all their money on BB10 and lost it all. They're lucky to still be alive from a corporate perspective.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    09-29-16 09:56 AM
  7. KAM1138's Avatar
    Android was the right path in 2007-2008 for BlackBerry instead of continuing with BBOS and then BB10. They could have rode the BBOS revenue stream into 2013 in securing government and corporate sectors and been major Android player in consumer sector. At same time, BlackBerry could have been securing Android for those demanding it. They blew all their money on BB10 and lost it all. They're lucky to still be alive from a corporate perspective.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    "Blew all their Money?" Maybe I'm forgetting something, but I recall that BBRY always had cash, and little or no debt. So, I think it was a matter of not failing to succeed at gaining revenue from the choices they made, rather than being broke.

    I have no reason to believe that BlackBerry would have been any more successful, if they had pursued Android earlier, because their Brand failed, the technology didn't. BB10 as a PRODUCT--SALES failed. I'm not sure that there is any evidence to suggest that being one among any number of Android Phones would have translated to better success. I think it is possible, but that's not able to be proven at this point.

    If we could magically go back in time and substitute BB10 for Android...I'm skeptical about that really changing anything.

    KAM
    09-29-16 10:03 AM
  8. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    And what is that story potentially? A blooming of BlackBerry Software solutions on Android?

    I guess Blackberry is in the depressing state where we are left to wonder--did THIS failure path end up worse than their other Failure path?

    PERSONALLY, as a consumer, I'd rather have had a few more BB10 devices, and perhaps an update actually hit, rather than a handful of failed Android Devices. I have MANY choices for a generic Android Device--and while I do like some of the BB10-lite features, it really doesn't make that much of a difference when compared to a real BB10 experience.
    I don't need the Apps (and apparently neither does 50% of all users, by some recent reports), so a maintained BB10 could last me indefinitely, and I'd keep buying new devices for as long as they produced them.

    I have the DTEK50--it's essentially a toy for me, and I can't see any reason I would need the DTEK60 at this point (just a more powerful toy). I'm not sure about the Mercury or any other device that has a Tiny little BBRY logo somewhere hidden so people don't know to NOT buy it. I'd be happy to consider it, especially if they improve the BB10-ish experience via Software.

    KAM
    That's the thing... I think it was either try Android or end it all last year. Don't think Chen had any plans for paying for BB10 drivers for newer chipsets, or for moving BB10 forward in development. It was all costing too much with sales down to 400K units and still falling.

    You and many here would like to have seen upgraded hardware for BB10... but sales of the Passport, Classic and LEAP were all Chen needed to see that BB10 was not something he could afford.

    What reports says that 50% of users don't need apps? I have seen that not many are downloading apps on a regular basis... maybe only when they get a new phone. But that isn't the same as they don't use apps at all. I bet in truth BlackBerry could have launched BB10 with only 50 apps in their apps store and been successful (at least from an app standpoint - there were other issues)... if it had been the right 50 apps.


    You said " If your analysis is "well, BB10 was a failure so..." you can save your breath. BB10 is an (effectively) abandoned platform. " But you're they one going back to BB10.....
    09-29-16 11:33 AM
  9. KAM1138's Avatar
    That's the thing... I think it was either try Android or end it all last year. Don't think Chen had any plans for paying for BB10 drivers for newer chipsets, or for moving BB10 forward in development. It was all costing too much with sales down to 400K units and still falling.

    You and many here would like to have seen upgraded hardware for BB10... but sales of the Passport, Classic and LEAP were all Chen needed to see that BB10 was not something he could afford.

    What reports says that 50% of users don't need apps? I have seen that not many are downloading apps on a regular basis... maybe only when they get a new phone. But that isn't the same as they don't use apps at all. I bet in truth BlackBerry could have launched BB10 with only 50 apps in their apps store and been successful (at least from an app standpoint - there were other issues)... if it had been the right 50 apps.


    You said " If your analysis is "well, BB10 was a failure so..." you can save your breath. BB10 is an (effectively) abandoned platform. " But you're they one going back to BB10.....
    Yeah, I guess I'm backsliding, so fair game to talk about I guess. My point is that you can't compare what DIDN'T happen to what did. They abandoned BB10, so there was no chance of success moving into the future. I guess one could compared the sales of Android Devices vs BB10 devices (even knowing they are older and not having further development).

    The Android path is what I'm questioning--the assumption that it would "end it all" to stick with BB10, and going to Android was the thing that SHOULD have been followed (if only earlier?). My question is that the premise continues to be incorrect. The Technology is not the only issue.

    My argument has been (for years) that until Blackberry repairs its Brand image and marketing, the technology really won't make a difference. I think it is hard to say definitively, but Android appears to have done nothing to turn around BBRY's hardware business.

    Someone (here) posted some survey about the 50% App thing. I don't recall the source, but if that is even PARTIALLY true, then the "conventional wisdom" about the necessity of having a massive app catalog (I think a core set of apps is necessary) might not be what people are representing.
    If that 50% claim...or heck--even 10% of people don't download apps, then isn't that a market that COULD have been pursued? Wouldn't it be possible for a phone that does core functions and the most popular apps very well have a CHANCE to succeed? Even 10% of that small segment (1% total) market would be a MASSIVE improvement over what BBRY has now.

    So, I guess what I'm saying is that the "Android is the only path" mindset is wrong. There WERE other potential paths to growing the hardware business instead of playing "follow the leader" with android.
    Blackberry being a "me too" in a competitive market where their brand image is a disaster is not a good plan.

    KAM
    anon(3983727) and Q10Bold like this.
    09-29-16 11:59 AM
  10. Old_Mil's Avatar
    Hello Everyone,

    With the decision of BlackBerry to pursue Android Devices and halt any development of BB10, various people in these forums and elsewhere proclaimed this was the ONLY path. BB10 was stated to be DOA (before release even), and that it had no future.

    Well, here we are about a year later, and my question is...did taking the Android Path really help?
    Well...

    If you paid attention to yesterday's announcement...

    Blackberry has stopped the development of all phones.

    The only forthcoming phones will be produced by interested licensees for target markets. I can see that list of licensees being really short: like zero.

    No decision on whether production of pipeline phones will proceed. I say no, because any decision like this destroys the market for all your products.

    In other words, a year and a half from now when blackberry abandons all os updates and android users are left Hugh and dry we bb10 users will have the last laugh.

    By 2018 blandroids will be the least desirable phones in existence...perpetually unrootable and perpetually without updates.


    Posted via CB10
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    09-29-16 12:57 PM
  11. KAM1138's Avatar
    Well...
    If you paid attention to yesterday's announcement...
    Blackberry has stopped the development of all phones.
    The only forthcoming phones will be produced by interested licensees for target markets. I can see that list of licensees being really short: like zero.
    No decision on whether production of pipeline phones will proceed. I say no, because any decision like this destroys the market for all your products.
    In other words, a year and a half from now when blackberry abandons all os updates and android users are left Hugh and dry we bb10 users will have the last laugh.
    By 2018 blandroids will be the least desirable phones in existence...perpetually unrootable and perpetually without updates.
    Posted via CB10
    Yeah, I guess that "question" of mine is pretty much answered.
    The appeal of Blackberry phones is probably quite limited, with or without Android (which I guess is now demonstrated). My personal view is that at least with BB10 they had something different, rather than a "me too" with a slightly different flavor. Now they've got nothing.

    KAM
    09-29-16 01:07 PM
  12. togarika's Avatar
    Going Android makes no business sense.

    Shifting to a software company, yes that makes sense. BlackBerry was going to make losses initially with any new OS it would have introduced after the PlayBook debacle.

    Companies like BlackBerry are like a big ship, it take time to turn it around. BB10 wasn't given enough time because BlackBerry management over estimated it's success.

    BB10 whilst waiting.....
    anon(3983727) and Q10Bold like this.
    09-29-16 01:31 PM
  13. kvndoom's Avatar
    I'm glad they tried. Blackberry wouldn't even exist today, in any capacity, had they kept flushing billions of dollars down the toilet with BB10.

    Unfortunately, like everything else, they made their move too late. On day one Chen should have begun winding down BB10 and started an Android initiative. It may have made a bigger difference.

    The thing people don't seem to get is that John Chen actually loves the BB10 OS. He wanted to make it work somehow. But letting emotional attachment override business sense almost always leads to failure. That's why 99.9% of the armchair CEO's on this forum would have taken the company straight to bankruptcy and liquidation in less than 12 months.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt and jegs2 like this.
    09-29-16 01:41 PM
  14. kvndoom's Avatar
    ...and the Priv was $200 too expensive and had a HORRIBLE name. "Blackberry Venice" at $499 would have been pretty slick. I will never, EVER, understand why so many companies abandon cool prototype names and come up with completely idiotic release names!

    Can you imagine Steve Jobs in 2007 coming up on stage and introducing the Apple PRIV?!?
    DrBoomBotz and Laura Knotek like this.
    09-29-16 01:44 PM
  15. KAM1138's Avatar
    Going Android makes no business sense.

    Shifting to a software company, yes that makes sense. BlackBerry was going to make losses initially with any new OS it would have introduced after the PlayBook debacle.

    Companies like BlackBerry are like a big ship, it take time to turn it around. BB10 wasn't given enough time because BlackBerry management over estimated it's success.

    BB10 whilst waiting.....
    I know a lot of people are of the opinion that BB10 just couldn't possibly survive, and that Android was the way to go. I'll not deny that BBRY did a poor job at getting BB10 where it needed to be, but this sort of fatalism in tech...I'm not really buying it. Revolutions happen--like the one that turned BBRY on its head, and it WILL happen again.

    I've not heard anyone say why BB10 couldn't be a TECHNOLOGICAL success, and if that's possible then it COULD be a commercial success--with the right leadership. I'm not saying they DID do what was necessary--clearly not. Mistakes were made--across the board, and THAT is why they failed, not because BB10 wasn't a good product.

    I take the failure of Android as further proof of the idea that the technology is not why Blackberry continues to fail (at least in this area). Android ISN'T a solution, and never was. It might be INCLUDED in a solution, and still might (but I doubt it).

    KAM
    09-29-16 02:42 PM
  16. eshropshire's Avatar
    Going Android makes no business sense.

    Shifting to a software company, yes that makes sense. BlackBerry was going to make losses initially with any new OS it would have introduced after the PlayBook debacle.

    Companies like BlackBerry are like a big ship, it take time to turn it around. BB10 wasn't given enough time because BlackBerry management over estimated it's success.

    BB10 whilst waiting.....
    So how much more should BlackBerry have spent on BB10? They spent billions of dollars in development and millions on a launch in 2013. Two big problems, the launch was way too late, at least 3 years too late. The second problem was it was very buggy and not ready for prime time when it was launched. The poor quality of the product flushed all the money spent on the launch down the toilet. Then BlackBerry posted their For Sale sign far and wide and this scared off the remaining big corporate customers. To make matters worse, no major companies showed any interest in buying BlackBerry. By the end of 2013 almost all large BlackBerry hardware and software customers were either migrating or planing their migration strategy. On the consumer side, Thor let go all of the BlackBerry retail field reps in Oct of 2013, so no retailers received any updates or training on BlackBerry products. The big cherry on the cake is the BlackBerry was burning through their cash reserves like crazy. By the end of 2013 most financial analysts were predicting BlackBerry would be out of cash in 2015.

    This is the situation that faced John Chen when he arrived. The BOD had already given up, they were desperate, no qualified companies wanted to buy BlackBerry, the company was draining cash like crazy, they had major excess inventory due to very bad forecasting on BB10 demand. Chen was hired for his expertise in software, and to transform BB into a software company. One of his big assets was not being an insider and having no interest in keeping skeletons in the closet. Thor being an insider was his biggest weakness, he kept the secrets buried and the sacred cows well fed.

    The only thing that could have saved BB10 was great 3rd party support. The only time this support could have been created was in 2012 during the hype build up for BB10. BlackBerry had developer conferences, they had programs in place to pay developers. The program was bungled and this poor execution doomed any chance the platform had for success. No major developer was going to spend time on BB10 after the poor launch. I know, I was working for a developer at the time, and we had BB10 on our product plans, but dropped them in 2013.

    To John Chen's credit, he kept investing in BB10. Under his watch the first usable and stable BB10 2.1 was released. He brought out new devices. He also did quite a bit of PR. I don't know why the people on the site can't see the difference in BB coverage the 12 months before John Chen and the next 24+ months. For a company the size of BlackBerry, John Chen gets a lot of quotes and speaking opportunities. I have worked in Tech PR and this type of coverage is not free or easy to get. BlackBerry chose to spend their marketing budget on PR, I think this was a wise choice. Corporate CEOs see trade articles much more than they see ads.

    The bottom line is that Chen could have spent millions on promoting BB10 and it would not have made any difference. Corporations had already made their choices. Many had moved to BYOD, and many have in-house applications that run only on iOS and in some cases Android. For comparison during the same time look at Microsoft. Windows Mobile has received a lot of praise from its users and the reviewers. Microsoft has spent billions of dollars on Windows Mobile development and millions on marketing - what is the result? Less than 1% market share.
    Last edited by eshropshire; 09-29-16 at 03:11 PM.
    09-29-16 03:01 PM
  17. KAM1138's Avatar
    I'm glad they tried. Blackberry wouldn't even exist today, in any capacity, had they kept flushing billions of dollars down the toilet with BB10.

    Unfortunately, like everything else, they made their move too late. On day one Chen should have begun winding down BB10 and started an Android initiative. It may have made a bigger difference.

    The thing people don't seem to get is that John Chen actually loves the BB10 OS. He wanted to make it work somehow. But letting emotional attachment override business sense almost always leads to failure. That's why 99.9% of the armchair CEO's on this forum would have taken the company straight to bankruptcy and liquidation in less than 12 months.
    Why? Blackberry essentially DOESN'T exist today despite following the advice of all the Pro-android people. We're still here--the end of Hardware, so NOT "flushing billions" (not sure where that value came from) and it made ZERO difference. So, don't you think it is at least REASONABLE to say "Hmmm, maybe our 'solution' wasn't right. MAYBE, there's something else that needs to be addressed?"

    OR, maybe this whole thing continues to be a big fat lie by Blackberry, who is trying to manage what they've determined long ago is a segment they decided to abandon. Who can say? However, a great way to NOT try and succeed is to stop trying--that's what they did with BB10. I'm not sure whatever money they've spent on Android Software is going to be any better (I hope it will).

    I doubt that Chen's "love" of BB10 has much influence, and that he has little interest in "making it work" as I see ZERO evidence that they've made any effort...hmmm, at least 2 years to do anything to help BB10 succeed. That's simply not their plan--or at least I can't discern any evidence of it.

    In regards to business--throwing good money after bad is surely a risk...so it spending a lot of money to develop a product that you all but insure fails due to lack of support and marketing, AND ignoring the tatters of your brand image and pretending it isn't a problem. The "armchair CEOs", and perhaps the REAL CEOs seem to be incapable of looking at a larger picture and coming up with ANY sort of cohesive plan to address ALL of the issues with Blackberry.

    We're now seeing further evidence that the wishful thinking and cheerleaders for Android are every bit as wrong as the "denial" people that prefer BB10.

    You're right--The PRIV was too expensive (poor reading of the market) did have a horrible name (failed marketing/PR)...more NON-tech failures from a company that seems utterly incompetent in dealing with these other issues effectively.

    I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge that Apps are an issue, which MAY lead towards Android as a possible solution. I just wish that others would consider how equally important the Blackberry Brand issues are.
    Blackberry could have put out almost anything, and it wouldn't have mattered, because the Brand is a joke. The App-selection is NOT the core issue, its merely AN issue, so the people who placed their hopes on Android are as foolish as people that think BB10 is going to suddenly get popular again.

    So, bottom line...I'm not sure they DID try--because I find it hard to believe that a company can be so utterly blind regarding its standing, and hope that it will all work out somehow. There doesn't seem to be any coherent plan, so TRYING to address a SYMPTOM isn't really good enough.

    KAM
    09-29-16 03:02 PM
  18. KAM1138's Avatar
    The bottom line is that Chen could have spent millions on promoting BB10 and it would not have made any difference. Corporations had already made their choices. Many had moved to BYOD, and many have in-house applications that run only on iOS and in some cases Android. For comparison during the same time look at Microsoft. Windows Mobile has received a lot of praise from its users and the reviewers. Microsoft has spent billions of dollars on Windows Mobile development and millions on marketing - what is the result? Less than 1% market share.
    Well, they DIDN'T support BB10 (or botched it as you noted), and DIDN'T fix its Brand Image. We can't say what might have been different--we can only speculate.
    What we do know is what DID happen. They DID effectively stop supporting BB10, and pursued Android. They did end hardware development, they DID fail to retain the customers they did have. They are in as bad a shape in regards to phones as they've ever been. So...how exactly are they in better shape for choosing the Android Path? Especially in regards to Hardware. Software...maybe they can get SOME sort of foothold, but likely not in any consumer level product.

    KAM
    Q10Bold likes this.
    09-29-16 03:09 PM
  19. kvndoom's Avatar
    Why? Blackberry essentially DOESN'T exist today despite following the advice of all the Pro-android people. We're still here--the end of Hardware, so NOT "flushing billions" (not sure where that value came from) and it made ZERO difference. So, don't you think it is at least REASONABLE to say "Hmmm, maybe our 'solution' wasn't right. MAYBE, there's something else that needs to be addressed?"

    OR, maybe this whole thing continues to be a big fat lie by Blackberry, who is trying to manage what they've determined long ago is a segment they decided to abandon. Who can say? However, a great way to NOT try and succeed is to stop trying--that's what they did with BB10. I'm not sure whatever money they've spent on Android Software is going to be any better (I hope it will).

    I doubt that Chen's "love" of BB10 has much influence, and that he has little interest in "making it work" as I see ZERO evidence that they've made any effort...hmmm, at least 2 years to do anything to help BB10 succeed. That's simply not their plan--or at least I can't discern any evidence of it.

    In regards to business--throwing good money after bad is surely a risk...so it spending a lot of money to develop a product that you all but insure fails due to lack of support and marketing, AND ignoring the tatters of your brand image and pretending it isn't a problem. The "armchair CEOs", and perhaps the REAL CEOs seem to be incapable of looking at a larger picture and coming up with ANY sort of cohesive plan to address ALL of the issues with Blackberry.

    We're now seeing further evidence that the wishful thinking and cheerleaders for Android are every bit as wrong as the "denial" people that prefer BB10.

    You're right--The PRIV was too expensive (poor reading of the market) did have a horrible name (failed marketing/PR)...more NON-tech failures from a company that seems utterly incompetent in dealing with these other issues effectively.

    I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge that Apps are an issue, which MAY lead towards Android as a possible solution. I just wish that others would consider how equally important the Blackberry Brand issues are.
    Blackberry could have put out almost anything, and it wouldn't have mattered, because the Brand is a joke. The App-selection is NOT the core issue, its merely AN issue, so the people who placed their hopes on Android are as foolish as people that think BB10 is going to suddenly get popular again.

    So, bottom line...I'm not sure they DID try--because I find it hard to believe that a company can be so utterly blind regarding its standing, and hope that it will all work out somehow. There doesn't seem to be any coherent plan, so TRYING to address a SYMPTOM isn't really good enough.

    KAM
    You still believe that throwing money at BB10 could have made it successful. It failed at launch... there was no coming back from that. It failed so badly that Blackberry put itself up for sale. There almost WAS no Blackberry, just months after BB10 came to market. Believing such a disaster could still be turned around just strengthens my point about armchair CEO's.

    Blackberry couldn't get its own customers to move to its new OS. That's a proven fact. Most BBOS users turned their nose up to BB10 and went to Android or IOS.
    TgeekB likes this.
    09-29-16 03:14 PM
  20. eshropshire's Avatar
    The Android strategy gives BlackBerry a future in HW. Maybe not a great one, but at least they have an opportunity to work with HW companies to build Android phones using BlackBerry security and productivity apps. If they had not moved to Android, their HW group would probably ended late last year or early this year. There would be no opportunity to have other companies build phones using BB10. If for not other reason there are no drivers available for modern chip sets. Plus since BlackBerry has almost no developers working on BB10, companies are not going to produce phones that have little to no chance of getting updates. BlackBerry's HW future is not bright, but it does have a chance because of Android.
    TgeekB likes this.
    09-29-16 03:17 PM
  21. KAM1138's Avatar
    You still believe that throwing money at BB10 could have made it successful. It failed at launch... there was no coming back from that. It failed so badly that Blackberry put itself up for sale. There almost WAS no Blackberry, just months after BB10 came to market. Believing such a disaster could still be turned around just strengthens my point about armchair CEO's.

    Blackberry couldn't get its own customers to move to its new OS. That's a proven fact. Most BBOS users turned their nose up to BB10 and went to Android or IOS.
    If you can point out where I've suggested that "Throwing money at BB10" is the solution, I'd be happy to see it. That straw man has been beaten and burned quite enough. No, actually what I advocated for (not that anyone should know this) BEFORE the launch of BB10 was to address Marketing and Brand issues-- SPECIFICALLY to improve the launch of the product.
    I still can't understand why anyone expects success of a product launched to people who think your product is a joke, and will reject it outright.

    You seem to be under the impression that I didn't note various issues that would impact the launch of BB10, and damage its chance of success, but I did. So, no--I actually was concerned with avoiding a disaster, which is still an ongoing problem.

    KAM
    09-29-16 03:28 PM
  22. KAM1138's Avatar
    The Android strategy gives BlackBerry a future in HW. Maybe not a great one, but at least they have an opportunity to work with HW companies to build Android phones using BlackBerry security and productivity apps. If they had not moved to Android, their HW group would probably ended late last year or early this year. There would be no opportunity to have other companies build phones using BB10. If for not other reason there are no drivers available for modern chip sets. Plus since BlackBerry has almost no developers working on BB10, companies are not going to produce phones that have little to no chance of getting updates. BlackBerry's HW future is not bright, but it does have a chance because of Android.
    So, "they have a chance" is the sum-total of this effort? Calling where we are at with hardware anything but a failure is a bit of a stretch.
    Putting a Blackberry label on an android phone is not really an accomplishment.

    KAM
    09-29-16 03:34 PM
  23. early2bed's Avatar
    The ideal move would have been to sell the hardware division along with the patents to the highest bidder about 3-4 years ago. There was plenty of interest from all of the major players - Microsoft, Samsung, Huawei, even Apple - because BlackBerry had a customer base of something like 40 million users including all those prized enterprise deployments . We heard about it all those over the past few years. Remember when John Chen said it was too valuable? Now he ended up closing shop. He should be fired just for that.
    KAM1138 and Q10Bold like this.
    09-29-16 03:35 PM
  24. conite's Avatar
    The benefit of moving to Android was the side effect of building up a nice Android software portfolio that can now be turned into an income stream through subscriptions and licencing.

    Going forward they can offer various rungs of Android hardening, and the app suite.

    The number of Android device sales was completely unrelated to whether or not BB10 devices would have sold more or less. BB10 was over already. Period.

    I'm more optimistic today than I was last week about seeing BlackBerry software on future Android devices.
    09-29-16 03:47 PM
  25. eshropshire's Avatar
    The ideal move would have been to sell the hardware division along with the patents to the highest bidder about 3-4 years ago. There was plenty of interest from all of the major players - Microsoft, Samsung, Huawei, even Apple - because BlackBerry had a customer base of something like 40 million users including all those prized enterprise deployments . We heard about it all those over the past few years. Remember when John Chen said it was too valuable? Now he ended up closing shop. He should be fired just for that.
    Actually this is exactly what the BoD did in the late summer of 2013. They spent months trying to find any buyer interested in BlackBerry. The worst part is they did this very publicly with out a fall back low bid buyer already waiting in the the wings. Going public with a for sale sign can be a good tactic, but a company only does this if they are trying to find a better deal. I have been involved in several deals, and I have never seen one so poorly managed as the way BackBerry tried to get a deal in 2013. Thor even flew to silicon valley pleading with companies to buy BlackBerry.

    At the time the only real value they had was in their HW and BIS revenue. No company was interested. The price was too high, all the value was tied up in BIS revenue that was shrinking fast. No one wanted to take on an new mobile OS in 2013. The reason John Chen made those statements was to rebuild confidence in corporate customers in BlackBerry. Like everyone else in the tech industry he knew that no one wanted BlackBerry. Everyone keeps talking about the value of the the Patents, how much revenue does BlackBerry get from patent licensing? Also, BlackBerry sold their interest in the Rockstar Consortium patents several years ago.

    Kodak found out the days of people paying big money for patent libraries that don't generate big royalties is over. Kodak had planned to get over $2 Billion and had to settle for $525 million.
    09-29-16 03:49 PM
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