1. fernandez21's Avatar
    Ok, in another forum, someone was mentioning how rim was gong to disappear and go out of business blablabla, so I tried correcting him, afterwords he comes back and tells me my post is wrong and tells me they've been losing money for over a year. Here are my post and his reply:

    RIM currently has 2 billion dollars of cash on hand, sure it's not 120 billion, but not too shabby. RIM also hasn't been "bleeding" money, their first loss was this past quarter, when they released absolutely no new devices, haven't released a new device in over a year, and everyone knows something new is coming. They are currently in 3rd place and have been outselling windows phone with an ancient OS, I think they'll be more than fine.

    His response:
    Good thing your job has nothing to do with analyzing data, because you'd be out of a job. RIM reported a loss in subscribers in Q3. Every quarter last year was a loss. In fact, they bled 2.5 billion YoY, leaving them in the situation they are now, and marketing of BB10 hasn't even been figured in yet! RIM is using left over parts from last years Android phones to keep costs down, but this also means they will have nothing to highlight for consumers.
    The question is, what does RIM bring to the table? Why should a consumer buy Bb10 phones (that will be inferior in every way to flagship Android phones and WP8)? Will carriers have any monetary incentive to push a BB10 phone over an Android phone?
    While there is no doubt RIM will sell to hardcore fans and the Canadian gov't, their ship has sailed in nearly every other country. I doubt RIM will sell more than 15 million this quarter, before dropping significantly the following quarter and simply dying off by end of 2014.
    Was I wrong? I've done some searching but haven't found anything to back me up, in fact I get most of my info from this board. I would like a link to someplace that would shut the guy up. Any help would be appreciated.
    01-20-13 09:00 PM
  2. BBThemes's Avatar
    well for a start as of the last earnings, they had 2.9bn, not 100% on the loss/profit, also would be different if you look at GAAP too, which some do and some people dont.

    as for dying off by end of 2014, like seriously? 2 years? thats pretty good considering analysts predicted years ago that rim woould be long gone by now. wonder how that turned out for them lmfao.
    01-20-13 09:05 PM
  3. Rickster1's Avatar
    Just ignore him. not worth the effort. time will rell.
    01-20-13 09:05 PM
  4. howarmat's Avatar
    if you look at straight revenue from last financial statement they did lose 2.5 billion YoY from 5.2 down to 2.7 billion. That might be what he is referring to. Either way until we see how sales from BB10 do we can say anything yet. But from how everything looks BB10 is going to sell pretty well and RIM will be around well past 2014
    01-20-13 09:09 PM
  5. fernandez21's Avatar
    if you look at straight revenue from last financial statement they did lose 2.5 billion YoY from 5.2 down to 2.7 billion. That might be what he is referring to. Either way until we see how sales from BB10 do we can say anything yet. But from how everything looks BB10 is going to sell pretty well and RIM will be around well past 2014
    So RIM's revenue dropped 2.5 billion, not that they lost 2.5 billion, right?
    01-20-13 09:18 PM
  6. kfh227's Avatar
    Read the definition of free cash flow. Then know that rimms number for this metric is 2 billion or so. Earnings is meaningless. Things from years ago effect it. Fcf is right now.

    You could also point out that rimms cash/equivilents went up 600 million the recent quarter.

    Whoever this person is, Is an amateur. Anyone that can read financial statemnts and was handed rimms, would say it is a strong compsny with a large cash horde. Its not till you tell them it is rimm that you get carpped upon.

    Anyway, post a link. I want to talk to this newbie investor.
    01-20-13 10:35 PM
  7. fernandez21's Avatar
    Read the definition of free cash flow. Then know that rimms number for this metric is 2 billion or so. Earnings is meaningless. Things from years ago effect it. Fcf is right now.

    You could also point out that rimms cash/equivilents went up 600 million the recent quarter.

    Whoever this person is, Is an amateur. Anyone that can read financial statemnts and was handed rimms, would say it is a strong compsny with a large cash horde. Its not till you tell them it is rimm that you get carpped upon.

    Anyway, post a link. I want to talk to this newbie investor.
    Sure, here you go.

    Viable 3rd mobile alternative - Blackberry 10 vs Windows Phone 8? - Page 2 - MacRumors Forums
    01-20-13 10:51 PM
  8. kill_9's Avatar
    Apparently Research In Motion has roughly 3 billion dollars cash on hand, no substantial debt that could adversely affect its cash position, and the financial bleeding has been ongoing for at least 3 consecutive quarters and will not improve until at least 2 quarters post-release of the BlackBerry Z10. In short, you and your friend are each right and wrong about the financial status of the company. If RIM is still loosing money after 30 June 2013, your friend is right. If RIM reports break-even or net profit come 30 September 2013, you are right.
    01-20-13 11:03 PM
  9. kill_9's Avatar
    So RIM's revenue dropped 2.5 billion, not that they lost 2.5 billion, right?
    The soon to be defunct BIS and BES service fees were the equivalent of a money printing machine for Research In Motion; this revenue source will be drying up according to an announced tiered-service realignment. However, in the present tense RIM's revenue would be a drug cartel's money laundering wet dream.
    01-20-13 11:07 PM
  10. Dapper37's Avatar
    Sorry but neither one of you are correct!
    01-20-13 11:32 PM
  11. GTiLeo's Avatar
    Read the definition of free cash flow. Then know that rimms number for this metric is 2 billion or so. Earnings is meaningless. Things from years ago effect it. Fcf is right now.

    You could also point out that rimms cash/equivilents went up 600 million the recent quarter.

    Whoever this person is, Is an amateur. Anyone that can read financial statemnts and was handed rimms, would say it is a strong compsny with a large cash horde. Its not till you tell them it is rimm that you get carpped upon.

    Anyway, post a link. I want to talk to this newbie investor.
    their cash went up no doubt but they also sold devices they had on stock, and their hardware hasn't really been profitable for a year now. granted the cash is coming in and the cash on hand has risen so everything is pretty much a moot point, but BB10 still needs to get their hardware on the profitable side and it most likely will
    01-20-13 11:43 PM
  12. pcguy514's Avatar
    The soon to be defunct BIS and BES service fees.
    (de∑funct
    /diˈfəNGkt/
    Adjective
    No longer existing or functioning)

    "BIS and BES service fees are not going anywhere anytime soon..." ~ T.H
    jakie55 likes this.
    01-21-13 12:11 AM

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