06-25-11 05:58 PM
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  1. xXxKratosxXx's Avatar
    RIM is one of Canada's pride. Even if they do bad, do you think the Government of Canada will help fund RIM to restore itself? Will they intervene in any takeover? If RIM does go, I really doubt Canada will let one of its most well known tech companies just disappear. Comments?
    06-22-11 03:00 PM
  2. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    It is hard to say. Nortel failed, despite the bailout by the Canadian government.
    06-22-11 03:02 PM
  3. eds817's Avatar
    1) Does Canada have the funds to do this?

    2) Will the people of Canada allow it?

    3) Wouldn't it better for an American company or for that matter any company to take it over and keep it viable?
    06-22-11 03:14 PM
  4. qbnkelt's Avatar
    OMG....RIM is not cash strapped at this time. It was one lackluster quarter with an overreaction by everyone and my aunt Molly!!!!

    Really alls y'all....
    06-22-11 03:35 PM
  5. lnichols's Avatar
    OMG....RIM is not cash strapped at this time. It was one lackluster quarter with an overreaction by everyone and my aunt Molly!!!!

    Really alls y'all....
    [SARCASM]But they only made $700 Million dollars last quarter, and only have $3 Billion in cash.... That will only get them through end of next week and not to QNX phones in 2012. Doors will be closing soon cause they can't pay the rent. [/SARCASM]
    06-22-11 03:45 PM
  6. CranBerry413's Avatar
    OMG....RIM is not cash strapped at this time. It was one lackluster quarter with an overreaction by everyone and my aunt Molly!!!!

    Really alls y'all....
    That is a really good point. You know, I think the market is full of people that over react to things, and take things WAY out of context.

    But to be frank, I don't think that Canada's Government would allow a foreign company to buy them. I think that they would block any significant offer made. Which I think is good for them (Canada & RIM).

    Isn't RIM the 3rd or 4th largest employer in Au Canada anyways? They'll keep it out of foreign hands.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-22-11 03:55 PM
  7. Jake Storm's Avatar
    OMG....RIM is not cash strapped at this time. It was one lackluster quarter with an overreaction by everyone and my aunt Molly!!!!

    Really alls y'all....
    Exactly!
    People are starting to panic after reading one too many BGR articles.

    RIM is not in trouble financially. The only concern is getting bought out because the stock price is so low right now. The Canadian government will not allow a take over by foreign concerns. Blocking a take over will not cost the Canadian Government any money and would get a lot of support from voters. That's a pretty easy call for them to make. No comparison to Nortel.
    06-22-11 03:56 PM
  8. menaknow's Avatar
    Simple answer .... no.
    06-22-11 03:58 PM
  9. jackmoe's Avatar
    I had to make an account to answer this one.

    I strongly believe that no one will be buying out RIM at this time. This is my own opinion, so take it for what it is worth. Let me emphasize the word opinion again for you.

    4 reasons why I believe there is no imminent buyout threat to Research in Motion:

    1) Is this panic over the declining share price really justified?

    No it is not, but that is the capital market for you. Speculation, combined with the ridiculousness of modern media and war mongering journalists, has created a pretty serious situation for a company who until recently (meaning months) has never really had trouble turning a profit or innovating within the market. A company sitting on $2 Billion in cash and short term is NOT in trouble by any means. People already predicting the failure of products not yet released obviously have some magical power which allows them to know things which we don't (e.g. How many devices RIM will sell in Q3 and Q4 this year.)

    2) BHP Potash and Nortel

    Recall an article which mentioned RIM when BHP Potash was under takeover threats. A columnist wondered if the BHP deal was allowed, what would stop a company from launching a takeover on RIM, Canada's remaining crown jewel of technology?

    Because of the failure of Nortel, the government will likely not allow history to repeat itself. The loss of the human capital and intellectual property would be devastating to the ability for Canada to remain competitive in the ever increasing global playing field of MNE's and Offshoring. The University of Waterloo would also not take kindly to having its chief sugar daddy bought out (although they might like it if it were Microsoft? Talk about an in.)

    RIM, and to an extent Magna, are really all that Canada has left in the way of global competitors, and it is unlikely that they will be allowed to be snapped up.

    3. RIM runs the Blackberry platform for many governments, including Canada's, with the backend located in Canada.

    Sure, no problem! We would absolutely love for an American company to buyout RIM and have all the data and who knows what else come under the Patriot Act.

    Merry Christmas, Happy Thanksgiving, Happy Birthday and Happy 4th of July to all you folks down at the NSA! Don't listen to all of our traffic all in one sitting!

    4. Remember when Nokia was dead? Way more dead than RIM is currently being labeled as. Remember when the N9 came out with a platform that was 2 years behind and everyone loved it? Well I'll forgive you if you don't, because it was fairly recent. I also am fairly certain that Nokia did not have $2Bill in cash to spend.

    Unless you are a RIM employee and have seen QNX, and QNX phones in action, you cannot tell me at this time whether they are going to be a success or failure. Most importantly, you cannot write it off as a failure because the SHARE PRICE IS DOWN.

    Form your own honest opinions about RIM, but make sure they are objective ones. It is very easy to get caught up in the panicked herd of wildebeest heading towards the cliff, the cliff of speculation.
    mobibiz and BoldBigWorm like this.
    06-22-11 04:58 PM
  10. TheMimic's Avatar
    I had to make an account to answer this one.

    I strongly believe that no one will be buying out RIM at this time. This is my own opinion, so take it for what it is worth. Let me emphasize the word opinion again for you.

    4 reasons why I believe there is no imminent buyout threat to Research in Motion:

    1) Is this panic over the declining share price really justified?

    No it is not, but that is the capital market for you. Speculation, combined with the ridiculousness of modern media and war mongering journalists, has created a pretty serious situation for a company who until recently (meaning months) has never really had trouble turning a profit or innovating within the market. A company sitting on $2 Billion in cash and short term is NOT in trouble by any means. People already predicting the failure of products not yet released obviously have some magical power which allows them to know things which we don't (e.g. How many devices RIM will sell in Q3 and Q4 this year.)

    2) BHP Potash and Nortel

    Recall an article which mentioned RIM when BHP Potash was under takeover threats. A columnist wondered if the BHP deal was allowed, what would stop a company from launching a takeover on RIM, Canada's remaining crown jewel of technology?

    Because of the failure of Nortel, the government will likely not allow history to repeat itself. The loss of the human capital and intellectual property would be devastating to the ability for Canada to remain competitive in the ever increasing global playing field of MNE's and Offshoring. The University of Waterloo would also not take kindly to having its chief sugar daddy bought out (although they might like it if it were Microsoft? Talk about an in.)

    RIM, and to an extent Magna, are really all that Canada has left in the way of global competitors, and it is unlikely that they will be allowed to be snapped up.

    3. RIM runs the Blackberry platform for many governments, including Canada's, with the backend located in Canada.

    Sure, no problem! We would absolutely love for an American company to buyout RIM and have all the data and who knows what else come under the Patriot Act.

    Merry Christmas, Happy Thanksgiving, Happy Birthday and Happy 4th of July to all you folks down at the NSA! Don't listen to all of our traffic all in one sitting!

    4. Remember when Nokia was dead? Way more dead than RIM is currently being labeled as. Remember when the N9 came out with a platform that was 2 years behind and everyone loved it? Well I'll forgive you if you don't, because it was fairly recent. I also am fairly certain that Nokia did not have $2Bill in cash to spend.

    Unless you are a RIM employee and have seen QNX, and QNX phones in action, you cannot tell me at this time whether they are going to be a success or failure. Most importantly, you cannot write it off as a failure because the SHARE PRICE IS DOWN.

    Form your own honest opinions about RIM, but make sure they are objective ones. It is very easy to get caught up in the panicked herd of wildebeest heading towards the cliff, the cliff of speculation.
    I agree with much of what you're saying but what was once mass hysteria is starting to take form. Rim had 1 bad quarter but it also slashed it's projections for the year meaning they have realized that the ship is taking water. PB sales projections slashed, profits slashed, delays of new products, etc. One does not need to see QNX phones in action to see that there is a very real problem facing the company.

    They are losing market share and that loss is simply going to increase and gain momentum as they are not releasing any new hand sets to stop it, while apple will release a cheaper iphone and the next generation of androids are coming. And while the next iphone may be delayed, apple has a wide range of other products which helps fill it's pockets. One might argue that RIM has BES but that's 20% of it's rev and it still falls into the same market it's losing ground in(smart phone market)

    The stock price is undervalued if one looks at the projected earnings for this year but people are not looking at that with RIM. They are concerned that the company will make less and less money quarter after quarter. Their growth will not increase as it once did, more precisely.

    The investors have lost faith in the company's capacity to remain competitive simply due to too many missteps. Storm, under powered torch, PB, qnx delays. That's the reason why the stock is sinking. Jim B. can only ask everyone to "just wait and see" for so long before people chalk it up to " the boy cried wolf" syndrome.

    The playbook was a great idea. Build a smaller tablet, more mobile, flash, etc Releasing it without native email killed it before it was out the box. I use the term killed it loosely as 500k units "shipped" is still impressive but had they shipped with native email, that would have taken most of the negative press off the device. It was a running joke since launch about BB releasing a device that doesn't do email. Yes, not exactly accurate but how the **** did someone not think about this during the design and engineering phase? Heads should roll for that blunder. How can these guys, after all their success, made such an oversight on something so obvious...

    Now everyone was waiting for the devices to come out this summer but more delays. How are they planning to make more money with a stale line up?
    What reason can any investor possibly have at this point to stick with the RIM stock besides the talk of a possible buyout? Until those QNX phones come to market, there just isn't any real reason to invest in RIM
    except blind faith. We don't even know how the qnx phones will do. It may just be too late by then with the ever growing app ecosystem of apple and google. ****, I don't even know how it would do if those devices magically hit shelves tomorrow.

    The only thing investors can hope to bank on for the foreseeable is RIM gaining some traction in China and some of the other emerging markets. That and talks of a buyout lol Otherwise, it's just a waiting game for at least 12 more months till "super
    Phones" by which time, I suspect their will be a few more stock crippling quarters.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-23-11 02:21 AM
  11. Invader3K's Avatar
    There is no basis for these "takeover" rumors. They are just pure speculation by random bloggers with no factual basis. Throwing out Microsoft and Dell as potential suitors is just irresponsible pseudo-journalism.

    "Hmmm...RIM's stock price down. What's a big company that has money? Hmm...Bill Gates is rich. Let's just say Microsoft could be a good candidate..."

    Waste of time talking about this sort of thing until some hard evidence comes out.
    Jake Storm likes this.
    06-23-11 06:23 AM
  12. SRR500's Avatar
    Now I don't know much about big business but the one thing that caught my eye was the announcement that RIM is buying back stock. (I haven't heard it mentioned much in blogs etc.)

    It seems to me that a company that is on the verge of colapse wouldn't/couldn't be doing this. It appears to me that they are taking the opportunity to buy back their own stock to make them less vurnerable to the whims of the stock market investors. Would it also make them less vurnable to a buy out or take over?

    Do I understand the concept of stock buy back or have I missed the point? Can someone explain?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-23-11 09:49 AM
  13. Jake Storm's Avatar
    Now I don't know much about big business but the one thing that caught my eye was the announcement that RIM is buying back stock. (I haven't heard it mentioned much in blogs etc.)

    It seems to me that a company that is on the verge of colapse wouldn't/couldn't be doing this. It appears to me that they are taking the opportunity to buy back their own stock to make them less vurnerable to the whims of the stock market investors. Would it also make them less vurnable to a buy out or take over?

    Do I understand the concept of stock buy back or have I missed the point? Can someone explain?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    It also makes them a tidy profit when they sell it again after the stock goes back up.
    06-23-11 09:52 AM
  14. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    In all honesty, it's too early to declare RIM dead. Is RIM struggling? Are they in dire need of a jumpstart? Yes. But the ship hasn't sunken. The ship isn't even taking on water. It's just in some really really rough seas and it's up to them to ride it out a bit & navigate into safe water. There is still time despite all the talk of the contrary.
    06-23-11 09:59 AM
  15. Rickroller's Avatar
    OMG....RIM is not cash strapped at this time. It was one lackluster quarter with an overreaction by everyone and my aunt Molly!!!!

    Really alls y'all....
    If only that were true. This has been foreshadowed for the last year (with declining marketshares and outdated tech)..and it's finally coming to fruition. This "one lackluster quarter" is just the start of many "underwhelming" ones. With only 3 new phones scheduled for release this year (and only 1 decent one imo) the only ones who are excited for those are the diehards..because anybody with any knowledge knows that OS 7 isn't even worth jumping on..as it will be EOL within a year.

    Unfortunately for RIM..they've had their pants pulled down..thoroughly gotten spanked..and seem to be crying in the corner right now. Will they be able to pull their pants back up and soldier on? In today's market..i'm not sure..especially with their leadership (or lack thereof).
    06-23-11 10:48 AM
  16. CanuckBB's Avatar
    Now I don't know much about big business but the one thing that caught my eye was the announcement that RIM is buying back stock. (I haven't heard it mentioned much in blogs etc.)

    It seems to me that a company that is on the verge of colapse wouldn't/couldn't be doing this. It appears to me that they are taking the opportunity to buy back their own stock to make them less vurnerable to the whims of the stock market investors. Would it also make them less vurnable to a buy out or take over?

    Do I understand the concept of stock buy back or have I missed the point? Can someone explain?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    You're pretty much there.

    Also of note, while stock prices is an indication of the value of a company and can affect things like credit raring, fact is once stock has been issued, the value at which it trades is of no financial benefit to the company.

    If I buy a stock at the IPO for $10, that's $10 in the compny's coffers. When I sell it for $20, that's $10 profit in MY coffer.

    By buying back stock, RIM is doing a number of things.

    1 - Remove stocks available to the public. If less than 50% of stocks are on the open market the company can't b taken over.

    2- Reduce the effect of divident payments. They are in effect paying themselves dividents

    3- Accumulating a source of cash for when the stock rises and they sell it again.
    06-23-11 10:56 AM
  17. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Now I don't know much about big business but the one thing that caught my eye was the announcement that RIM is buying back stock. (I haven't heard it mentioned much in blogs etc.)

    It seems to me that a company that is on the verge of colapse wouldn't/couldn't be doing this. It appears to me that they are taking the opportunity to buy back their own stock to make them less vurnerable to the whims of the stock market investors. Would it also make them less vurnable to a buy out or take over?

    Do I understand the concept of stock buy back or have I missed the point? Can someone explain?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Well RIM is only allowed under Canadian law to buy back 5% of stock per year....They wouls indeed purchase much more if legally possible....

    Mike L and Jim B in my opinion want RIM privately held! I hope this happens....

    Any takeover would be shut down in a heart beat as Mike L and Jim B would hammer hard against the 5% share buy back law....this amongst other things....

    Don't believe everything the American media propoganda machine forces down our throats!....no offence...however it's truth!
    06-23-11 11:43 AM
  18. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Well RIM is only allowed under Canadian law to buy back 5% of stock per year....They wouls indeed purchase much more if legally possible....

    Mike L and Jim B in my opinion want RIM privately held! I hope this happens....

    Any takeover would be shut down in a heart beat as Mike L and Jim B would hammer hard against the 5% share buy back law....this amongst other things....

    Don't believe everything the American media propoganda machine forces down our throats!....no offence...however it's truth!
    If Ballsillie and Lazaridis run the company privately, it is doomed. Those fools are responsible for the mess RIM is in now.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-23-11 05:56 PM
  19. tack's Avatar
    RIM is not dead. They are financially sound for now. People are however projecting their future position in the market and potentially performance. I think opinions and predictions here are valid. Definitive statements are probably not. Are they waning in the market, even globally in developed markets, quite a bit. Hard to argue that point, even though some due. There are pockets where that is not true, but on the whole it is concerning.

    Canada is not the type of country that would stop a buy out unless the consumer would be harmed. They are very capitalist in my view.

    I would bet if there was a buy out, it might be a company not making phones or phone software. A company with heavy market share, lots of cash, and potentially needing some new direction is the perfect buy out. RIM is in that category. But someone would need a lot of money to buy it!
    Last edited by dbw1000; 06-24-11 at 05:15 AM.
    06-23-11 06:34 PM
  20. stackberry369's Avatar
    Go and buy some RIM stock and sell it at the top of the wave .

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-23-11 09:54 PM
  21. mobibiz's Avatar
    RIM is not the Titanic, nor it is gonna go down so easily. Yes, RIM has made several bad decisions recently about the products, features and pricing, but a company that has been a benchmark for decades, it's not gonna shut shop at the drop of a hat. The undying faith the consumers have in RIM and it's ability to bring out amazing products again can be seen in this post itself. Most of the people here are RIM supporters. Stocks and shares are something the American corporate has been known to play around with.
    06-24-11 05:32 AM
  22. Technerd.McLeod's Avatar
    If Ballsillie and Lazaridis run the company privately, it is doomed. Those fools are responsible for the mess RIM is in now.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    I agree with that. Especially after reading an article on canadianbusiness.com but I don't believe RIM is going to be dead anytime soon.

    With institutional shareholders abandoning ship, it’s just a matter of time before co-CEOs Mike Lazaridis and/or Jim Balsillie are shown the door. A new leader will have to figure out exactly what’s wrong the company. The debate over that is hot and heavy right now, with pundits suggesting everything from the engineering to the marketing of products. On Friday, Business Insider published a scathing letter from a former employee who said the CEOs are woefully out of touch with the market. Lazaridis and Balsillie have gotten too comfy with their success in the business segment and “are culturally blind to the gaping holes in their armour regarding consumer. They honestly think they understand consumer product, business, mentality, marketing – but they really don’t.” Whether or not the author is legit is besides the point because he or she sums up the general analyst consensus: RIM just doesn’t get the consumer market.
    An anecdotal example of that are the company’s current TV ads for the PlayBook. One ad Flash capability while another spotlights its multitasking chops. The average Joe really doesn’t care about or even know what either of those is, so the ads don’t really give them a reason to buy it.
    The new boss will have to have an understanding of how to create devices for every-day people, as well as how to sell them. If no one at RIM currently has that capability, as is clearly the case, then surely the list of people in Canada who do is short to non-existent. The smartphone game is global so if RIM is to attempt to solve its problems with new leadership, it’s going to have to look outside the country for someone with experience running a multinational, consumer-oriented company.
    From: http://www.canadianbusiness.com/blog...es-less-canada
    06-24-11 08:55 AM
  23. middbrew's Avatar
    No, RIM is not dead. Nor will it be any time soon. I think the really question is will it stay it's current course and be the third in line company behind Google's Android and Apples iPhone or will it rise again? Can it do it on it's own or will it take a buy out? I think the OP has a very good question in will the Canadian government allow a take over. I think it will depend on if the company can survive with the sole objective of selling mobile devices (Google and Apple have other ventures to fall back on). I think the Canadian government is smart enough to see if RIM is worth keeping as a Canadian only entity and act accordingly.
    06-24-11 10:53 AM
  24. Tiassa's Avatar
    You're pretty much there.

    Also of note, while stock prices is an indication of the value of a company and can affect things like credit raring, fact is once stock has been issued, the value at which it trades is of no financial benefit to the company.

    If I buy a stock at the IPO for $10, that's $10 in the compny's coffers. When I sell it for $20, that's $10 profit in MY coffer.

    By buying back stock, RIM is doing a number of things.

    1 - Remove stocks available to the public. If less than 50% of stocks are on the open market the company can't b taken over.

    2- Reduce the effect of divident payments. They are in effect paying themselves dividents

    3- Accumulating a source of cash for when the stock rises and they sell it again.
    As a friend of mine said "Insiders SELL their stock for a variety of reasons, they may need to diversify, or have some other expense that makes selling their stock a good idea. They BUY their stock for one reason only -- they think the price is going to go up.
    06-25-11 01:18 PM
  25. BoldBigWorm's Avatar
    LOL....

    RIM is smart. They are lowering it on purpose.
    06-25-11 04:18 PM
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