10-05-16 11:50 AM
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  1. willowbeast's Avatar
    The thing that apple has lots of success with is that they don't try to please the 1%, but the 99%. Here are a few examples:

    They are not trying to please the 1% that needs government level security for their device. Touch ID and 6 digits password is good enough for the 99%

    They are not trying to please the 1% that need a SLR camera to do professional shots... just the 99% that needs a quick, simple point and shoot camera with insane picture quality.

    Nor the 1% that needs to listen to lossless music and charge at the same time... just the 99% that hates having a wire a wants thin sexy phones.

    That's probably what makes them so successful... even when tech journalist trash their decision to remove the jack, they sell out cause what people saw is: finally no more wires.

    I think, even hardcore audiophiles would have to get used to the fact that 3.5mm jacks are on life support. Everyone would have to adapt to the fact that lightning and USB C will be the future for audiophiles and Bluetooth for everyone else.
    The only thing is that it is not 99% Apple doesn't own 99% of the market. So what ever percentage that is that's what you'd have to put up for numbers. 99% of people don't use Iphones. you could say 99% of Iphone owners don't care for quality music
    09-15-16 02:10 PM
  2. bobshine's Avatar
    The only thing is that it is not 99% Apple doesn't own 99% of the market. So what ever percentage that is that's what you'd have to put up for numbers. 99% of people don't use Iphones. you could say 99% of Iphone owners don't care for quality music
    Well that's what we talk about "target market" and not "market share".

    You don't sell phones to a market share, like what BB had been doing lately. By doing so, you guarantee a smaller and smaller market share. The Priv, the Passport are clearly phones that mostly appeal to loyal BB enthousiaste.

    So removing the jack is just logical for apple since they want to appeal to mass market. Other smaller more specialized manufacturer can fill up the void that apple leaves. I know it's probably late, but for the sake of BB survival, I hope they would consider removing the jack too.
    MikeX74 and Jose Casiano like this.
    09-15-16 02:56 PM
  3. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    The only thing is that it is not 99% Apple doesn't own 99% of the market. So what ever percentage that is that's what you'd have to put up for numbers. 99% of people don't use Iphones. you could say 99% of Iphone owners don't care for quality music
    He wasn't talking about 99% of the market. He was talking about 99% of their customer base.

    But to be honest though... When judging 99% of Apple's customer base, their sample size is large enough that the switch from customer base to market base isn't that far off. It's not like iOS users opinions are largely different from the opinions from users of other platforms.

    Apple has a sample size large enough that any surveyor would drool to have. Which is why quite often most OEM's of competing platforms tend to follow Apple's trends.
    JeepBB likes this.
    09-15-16 03:04 PM
  4. LazyEvul's Avatar
    If you're a serious audiophile, you'll probably want to ditch the miserable built-in DAC altogether and do something like this (photo not mine):



    Not every audiophile does this, mind you, but now you're just targeting a subgroup of an already small niche market.
    Ronindan, Ronindan and sean3089 like this.
    09-15-16 03:12 PM
  5. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I agree it's a fantastic business model, getting people to buy and replace accessories.

    And there will be more accessories as a result, which will improve the listening experience.

    Back to my original point, however, if your top priority is to hear great music today, without having to stop to charge your phone or buy additional dongles, my 3-year old BB10 phone produces better sound with lossless files, and is more convenient to use, than the new iPhone 7.

    Of course there are many, many good reasons to upgrade to the new iPhone 7. It is sleek, water resistant, incredibly fast and has what appears to be a great camera implementation. But for now at least, listening to high quality audio isn't one of them.

    Also, adding wireless charging doesn't really solve the problem for frequent travelers who can't just park it un one location on their desk or bedside table.

    Posted via CB10

    ? If you really can hear the difference and need a lossless audio player for FLAC and/or ALAC file...... there is an App for that in the App Store (if you were wanting to switch to an iPhone)?

    Now does your three year old BlackBerry's DAC playing FLAC files sound better than a the same FLAC files played on an iPhone and it's internal DAC. That's subjective, I don't know of a testing lab that makes any published comparisons of smartphone audio systems and their digital to analog converters (well not one that has bothered to test a BlackBerry - the iPhone does rate well among portable music players).

    Personally I don't know the point in trying to store FLAC files on a smartphone and then play them through it's limitations even with a high end set of headphones. The real advantage of FLAC files really is hard to hear without a powerful system driving large speakers capable of the full range of tones.


    For the charging problem buy the adapter if you want an iPhone and travel so much.... but I hardly see anyone with wired headphones at an airport.
    09-15-16 03:18 PM
  6. medic22003's Avatar
    The sound quality between wired vs bluetooth is nearly negligible these days. So negligible that the only differentiating factor is the build quality of the buds, regardless whether wired or bluetooth.

    In the days of BT 1.1 and BT 2, it was a no brainer that BT buds were inferior due to the extreme compression needed to transmit over BT. Today, with BT 4, it's a non-issue. The only differentiating factor is how much you spend on a quality set of buds/headsets. And the cost for Good/Exceptional earbuds is comparable between the wired and BT options. So realistically, there's zero issue when it comes to the quality of sound you're hearing.

    As for not being able to charge your device while using wired buds, that's situational. More often than not, earbuds are used when you're in a situation where charging isn't feasible because there isn't a charging solution available anyway (at the gym, out for a run, etc..). And in situations where there actually are charging solutions available, there's rarely ever any need to be using the earbuds to begin with. The only instance where I could imagine needing both, would be in an office or home environment where you don't wish to disturb others, but even then you could listen to music for a very long time without even having to take battery levels into consideration. Heck, I use BT earbuds myself, and can't recall the last time I'd needed to charge and listen at the same time.

    Sure, a person could nitpick a few anecdotal situations. But realistically those situations would be very few and far between.
    I'm only responding to say this, there is a VERY noticeable difference in my car between using an aux cord and bluetooth. Bluetooth doesn't come close. It was that way on my z30 and now my priv. I notice this and on top of that my hearing sucks

    Posted with my shiny new Priv
    09-15-16 03:20 PM
  7. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    I'm only responding to say this, there is a VERY noticeable difference in my car between using an aux cord and bluetooth. Bluetooth doesn't come close. It was that way on my z30 and now my priv. I notice this and on top of that my hearing sucks

    Posted with my shiny new Priv
    And what version of BlueTooth is your car using?
    09-15-16 03:37 PM
  8. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    support for lossless FLAC files
    I should point out here that Android phones have supported FLAC since forever, and that Apple has their own lossless format (ALAC) and most music purchased from iTunes can be downloaded in ALAC. Thus, Apple people really aren't missing out on too much, nor are Android folks.
    09-15-16 03:44 PM
  9. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I should point out here that Android phones have supported FLAC since forever, and that Apple has their own lossless format (ALAC) and most music purchased from iTunes can be downloaded in ALAC. Thus, Apple people really aren't missing out on too much, nor are Android folks.
    Correct. Android supports FLAC, and Apple supports ALAC. Both are fine, though it can be harder to find ALAC files available for purchase for some high end reissues of classic recordings.

    I never said a word about Android, but I know that Sony's DAC is exceptionally good. I don't know about which manufacturers use which DACs in the Android world.

    Posted via CB10
    09-15-16 04:55 PM
  10. MadMarti's Avatar
    Funny how some of you bash the good old Jack like there are no reasons why it exists such a long time now.

    I will go so far and say that it will be here longer than this so called "lightning port" and maybe all smartphone manufacturers you know today.

    Why?

    It's a simple 'tried and true' design, it worked in the past for generations and will work in the future for generations. It is uncomplicated and can be maintained or replaced relatively easily in comparison to more complex ports.
    There are billions of gears out there that have a longer lifespan than the usual smartphone and that rely on this jack. So it won't go away in a long time.
    There is no need to reinvent the wheel in that area. And Apple knows that too. That's why they have an adapter ready. They are just smart business-wise because it will be one of their best selling accessories now that they moved out Jack out of their base design..

    Posted via CB10
    09-15-16 09:02 PM
  11. Gajja's Avatar
    The problem with OP post is that you cannot build a device for the mass that will please a minority.

    That's where Apple shines at, they strike the perfect balance between proprietary hardware, connectors and OS, while allowing users convenience and getting what they need. 99% of people on this planet would be satisfied with and iPhone (as in that it would cover their day to day usage).
    Yes to all that except most products that aim for the mass market are moderately priced because that's also what the mass market wants.
    09-16-16 06:15 AM
  12. Gajja's Avatar
    Funny how some of you bash the good old Jack like there are no reasons why it exists such a long time now.

    I will go so far and say that it will be here longer than this so called "lightning port" and maybe all smartphone manufacturers you know today.

    Why?

    It's a simple 'tried and true' design, it worked in the past for generations and will work in the future for generations. It is uncomplicated and can be maintained or replaced relatively easily in comparison to more complex ports.
    There are billions of gears out there that have a longer lifespan than the usual smartphone and that rely on this jack. So it won't go away in a long time.
    There is no need to reinvent the wheel in that area. And Apple knows that too. That's why they have an adapter ready. They are just smart business-wise because it will be one of their best selling accessories now that they moved out Jack out of their base design..

    Posted via CB10
    Yes they still sell the jack. It's just you have to pay extra to get it now.
    09-16-16 06:18 AM
  13. bobshine's Avatar
    So Samsung, with the Note 7 fiasco, is moving up the launch of the S8 and guess what... no 3.5 mm headphone jack
    09-16-16 07:52 AM
  14. howarmat's Avatar
    Yes they still sell the jack. It's just you have to pay extra to get it now.
    its free
    Gajja likes this.
    09-16-16 08:00 AM
  15. medic22003's Avatar
    And what version of BlueTooth is your car using?
    Its whatever a 1 year old Kenwood after market stereo is using lol. I honestly don't know

    Posted with my shiny new Priv
    09-16-16 08:17 AM
  16. stlabrat's Avatar
    I'm only responding to say this, there is a VERY noticeable difference in my car between using an aux cord and bluetooth. Bluetooth doesn't come close. It was that way on my z30 and now my priv. I notice this and on top of that my hearing sucks

    Posted with my shiny new Priv
    from cnet 2013 review of z30: "BlackBerry makes sure to tout the Z30's noise cancellation abilities and the fact that its flagship handset boasts not just two but an array of four microphones. The mics ring the phone, one on each of the Z30's four edges, and they complement the device's set of powerful stereo speakers (top and bottom). Indeed, the first time I fired up the music app and piped a tune through the Z30's sound system I was shocked. The volume this phone's tiny drivers can produce is phenomenally loud, with loads more sound than what you get from the HTC One and Motorola Droid Maxx -- both of which have muscular stereo speakers. "
    you can enhanced by go to setting to get more audio output if you wish.. i believe (at least in early os version. not sure 10.3.2).
    09-16-16 08:23 AM
  17. anon(9188202)'s Avatar
    While I appreciate the sound quality of my Passport as being better than that found on many smartphones, every once in a while I will pull out and listen to my ancient Creative Zen Vision M from 2005 and be reminded that smartphone manufacturers have a long, long way to go to perfect sound quality on their devices.

    Posted via CB10 with my awesome Passport
    09-16-16 08:47 AM
  18. Andrew Setiawan's Avatar
    I can say this, I've even tested the iPhone 6 on an aux cord and the same music sounds lower in volume, usually meaning some lower level chip or compression. But the biggest problem is that people these days don't know quality. So much I see people's libraries filled with 128kb or less music!! Seriously lol this is because they pirates the music but even then let's say they use a service like Spotify I think that runs at 192kbs and even then through aux I feel like I get better quality. And I'm no audio file but I'm going back to actually buying cds instead of downloading them as I can go up to 320lbs and formats which I like best like flac or whatever

    Posted via CB10
    I've been using both my iphone 5 and ppse as music player in my car by using aux cord. Both of them are using spotify with extreme quality. However, ppse's output produce lower volume than my iphone and I feel the sound is much better from the iphone. Anybody tried it as well?

    Posted via CB10
    09-16-16 09:42 AM
  19. RUU_CB's Avatar
    its free
    Until the original gets lost, then it's probably $30 from the Apple store or Belkin.

    Posted via CB10
    09-16-16 10:53 AM
  20. Eric Ton's Avatar
    Until the original gets lost, then it's probably $30 from the Apple store or Belkin.

    Posted via CB10
    it's $9
    pantlesspenguin and TGR1 like this.
    09-16-16 11:02 AM
  21. Old_Mil's Avatar
    Itunes is awful. Pretty much any platform is a better one for audiophiles than iOS.

    Posted via CB10
    09-16-16 12:47 PM
  22. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Itunes is awful. Pretty much any platform is a better one for audiophiles than iOS.
    I'm no Apple guy, and I hate iTunes, but a large percentage of the iTunes library is available in lossless format - even stuff you bought years ago can be re-downloaded (or streamed) in lossless today. You gotta give credit where credit is due...
    09-16-16 01:47 PM
  23. RUU_CB's Avatar
    it's $9
    $10 in Canada, but still amazing when the cheapest lightning cable on their site is $25!

    Posted via CB10
    09-16-16 02:43 PM
  24. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    I have some good news!

    09-17-16 03:04 PM
  25. syclone1978's Avatar
    For years I have loved using my Z10 for audio playback, and my iPhone friends couldn't understand why I would prefer it to the iPhone, even though I owned an iPhone for testing purposes. They would never listen when I tried to explain the importance of a superior DAC chip, support for lossless FLAC files, etc.

    Now I'm having the last laugh!

    For users who use their phone to play music/podcasts/videos throughout the day, the iPhone 7 is a huge step backward for the company that largely created the portable digital music market with the iPod.

    All audiophiles know that wired headphones are infinitely better sounding than Bluetooth, but with the new iPhone 7, it's now impossible to listen to music on wired headphones and charge your phone at the same time unless you pay an extra $150 for a wireless charging station or use an awful $50 aftermarket product from Belkin that splits the charging port into two (creating inevitable electrical interference with the audio signal using the same port.)

    So, if you're like me, and you listen to audio constantly through expensive headphones, you either have to haul a wireless charging station with you at all times or buy one for each location you visit regularly!

    Also, without the Belkin dongle you can't even recharge from a battery pack while listening to music! So if you have a long commute after a busy day, you are SOL.

    Also, for those who don't already know, one of the components that BlackBerry invested heavily in for their BB10 phones was the digital to analog converter (DAC) chip. It's truly excellent in the z10, q10, Classic and Passport devices (I haven't tested the others.)

    Apple has taken bilking their users to a new level, asking them to pay an additional $450 for the accessories that will make their phone usable for playing music seriously (1 wireless charging station, air pods for when that's not an option, and the Belkin port splitting dongle, and that doesn't even get you a decent pair of headphones!

    Posted via CB10
    I agree, my Z10 sounded amazing whether it was with headphones, or Bluetooth, or from the device. Granted from the device is no comparison.
    Especially when I finally let my Z10 rest after three years and purchased my AT&T BlackBerry Passport.

    The sound quality coming from this BlackBerry is beyond phenomenal. I listen to music from my BlackBerry 96% of my day each day.

    I love using with BlackBerry Music Gateway Bluetooth in my car.

    Example to your point about iPhone sound quality being so much lower, no matter how a friend of mine uses his iPhone to play the exact same mp3 file, it never sounds as great as my Z10 or BlackBerry Passport. We noticed my AT&T Passport sounded better than his TV playing a song on YouTube. That could just be a fluke.

    To me, I was uncomfortable going from my beloved Z10 (that was nothing but amazing and kept my love for my BlackBerry devices) to the Passport.
    But once I played music on my Passport, I knew I'd have to get comfortable using my Passport.

    Happy I did, I love my Passport. Although I do miss the small form factor of my Z10 still.


    PassportSQW100-3/10.3.2.2876 AT&T
    TCB on Z10 likes this.
    09-17-16 09:48 PM
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