10-05-16 11:50 AM
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  1. stlabrat's Avatar
    The same arguments were made during the '80s when there was the purist argument against digital vs analog music. And that turned out to be a non-issue too (if it were, then music junkies today wouldn't even be listening to music on their smartphones).
    (1) digital vs analog - non-issue? beam me up.
    (2) Music junkies may want to listen to music in airport using phone due to limited choice of equipment... BB wireless speaker actually not too bad. as I said before, 9860 handset is great if you get the right file (good quality mp3). earbud impedance match (from original MFG recommended or in package set.. - if your phone is from low end of MFG brand, may be no body care about impedance match, just put a off the shelf what ever cheapest in the box and ship to you, you will have problem). Audio quality need a lot of design consideration in both hardware and software... the standard music equipment seller do not have to deal with mis-match issues (speaker, turntable, amp, etc) like the handset guys. how many of you use the in box ear bud or upgrade to the high end of ear bud from same handset maker? (not sure low end of phone brand have their own ear bud - anyone see those from the low end guys? did I miss something? if they don't, possibly, they only interested out put from the handset, what ever come out of the ear bud is not their concern - at least not from design point stand... you will have sound, but not quality).
    09-15-16 07:39 AM
  2. TGR1's Avatar
    Anyway... all these arguments about the missing headphone jack is pointless. Apple will never bring it back.

    In a couple of years... all manufacturers would had removed their headphone jack and Apple would been seen in the industry as an innovator and visionary... all that cause of a 100 years old jack.
    1) I have been simply amazed at the sheer mouth-foaming outrage expressed by some over the removal of the jack. I hadn't realized it would have such a soul-destroying impact.

    2) Equally surprised that the tech is that old.
    09-15-16 07:42 AM
  3. willowbeast's Avatar
    And yet you say nothing about the fact that there's now stereo speakers on the iPhone 7. That's a step forward for those who care about audio at home or at their desk at work, not just through headphones or ear buds.
    HAHA stereo speakers located about an inch apart? really....stereo?
    09-15-16 07:46 AM
  4. howarmat's Avatar
    HAHA stereo speakers located about an inch apart? really....stereo?
    no its true stereo with speakers on bottom and top
    09-15-16 08:00 AM
  5. otaku2's Avatar
    Lots of great headphones out there. For daily use on the bus/subway and in the office, I like the Sennheiser HD 280 PROs. ... these are very good, made to travel (come with a case),...

    Posted via CB10
    You left out the best feature: They are compact and rugged when folded up.
    09-15-16 08:04 AM
  6. willowbeast's Avatar
    no its true stereo with speakers on bottom and top
    I'm surprised they aren't marketing that as surround sound. Sorry there is no way you're going to get true stereo sound from a phone.
    09-15-16 08:05 AM
  7. howarmat's Avatar
    I'm surprised they aren't marketing that as surround sound. Sorry there is no way you're going to get true stereo sound from a phone.
    while quality wise would be debatable many phones have "stereo" speaker output with speaker located in bottom and top areas of the phone..
    stlabrat likes this.
    09-15-16 08:16 AM
  8. grover5's Avatar
    And yet you say nothing about the fact that there's now stereo speakers on the iPhone 7. That's a step forward for those who care about audio at home or at their desk at work, not just through headphones or ear buds.
    Many phones have that and the ability to charge and listen to wired headphones at the same time. They have for years. Apple finally doing something others have done for years while removing an important feature is only a step forward for those who can only choose apple.
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    09-15-16 08:34 AM
  9. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    while quality wise would be debatable many phones have "stereo" speaker output with speaker located in bottom and top areas of the phone..
    That's two channel, but cannot produce a stereo effect. To LISTEN in stereo the left and right channels must arrive simultaneously and in phase to the ears. In isolation (i.e., with headphones) that's relatively easy to do, but with speakers, both speakers must be identical distances from each ear and each channel must produce greater sround pressure levels for the corresponding ear.

    This is accomplished by placing the speakers at a distance significantly wider than the distance between the ears.

    It is physically impossible to produce a stereo effect in a handset, even if there are separate speakers for the left and right channels.

    What lots of people don't understand about electronic audio is that it has to physically interface with human biology to work. The final processing is done in the human nervous system. This places significant constraints on audio systems.

    In a mobile context, the ONLY practical way to listen to stereo recordings is through a headset.

    Posted via CB10
    09-15-16 08:34 AM
  10. Allan Milo's Avatar
    I never gave it much thought, but at night I sometimes like to listen to music and read using my phone. I usually do plug the charger in at the same time since, by the end of the day, the battery is getting low and also in case I fall asleep.

    Posted via CB10
    09-15-16 08:45 AM
  11. howarmat's Avatar
    That's two channel, but cannot produce a stereo effect. To LISTEN in stereo the left and right channels must arrive simultaneously and in phase to the ears. In isolation (i.e., with headphones) that's relatively easy to do, but with speakers, both speakers must be identical distances from each ear and each channel must produce greater sround pressure levels for the corresponding ear.

    This is accomplished by placing the speakers at a distance significantly wider than the distance between the ears.

    It is physically impossible to produce a stereo effect in a handset, even if there are separate speakers for the left and right channels.

    What lots of people don't understand about electronic audio is that it has to physically interface with human biology to work. The final processing is done in the human nervous system. This places significant constraints on audio systems.

    In a mobile context, the ONLY practical way to listen to stereo recordings is through a headset.

    Posted via CB10
    then go tell Apple, Blackberry, HTC etc that they are wrong since they obvious all are misinforming all of their customers and should be sued for false advertising...
    09-15-16 08:54 AM
  12. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    then go tell Apple, Blackberry, HTC etc that they are wrong since they obvious all are misinforming all of their customers and should be sued for false advertising...
    No, legally there is nothing inaccurate in calling it 'stereo' because they separate the left and right channels. But that doesn't mean you can hear it in stereo, unless you have a small enough head to put both your ears between the speakers! LOL

    Posted via CB10
    ck2nb likes this.
    09-15-16 09:05 AM
  13. Sairos's Avatar
    09-15-16 09:45 AM
  14. paulwallace1234's Avatar
    Best sound I've ever had from earphones was from an Ipod Touch 2nd gen

    Posted via CB10
    09-15-16 09:50 AM
  15. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    No, legally there is nothing inaccurate in calling it 'stereo' because they separate the left and right channels. But that doesn't mean you can hear it in stereo, unless you have a small enough head to put both your ears between the speakers! LOL

    Posted via CB10
    So when I'm watching a movie on my Droid and I hear sound move from left to right... I'm just imagining it?

    I get what you are trying to say... and understand that for the best stereo effect distance is needed. But that doesn't change that "stereo" speakers on a smartphone can improve the experience over a single speaker.

    And I will say that some smartphones have pretty good speakers if you are close to the phone. But I think most people the listen to music on a regular basis.... are using something other than the built-in speakers.

    Me, it's usually either my Truck via Bluetooth, or my home system via Bluetooth. Or when I need to listen without bothering my wife, if use a pair of Bluetooth headphone. For me the earphone jack just isn't used much.
    09-15-16 10:12 AM
  16. RUU_CB's Avatar
    With the amount of "Apple love" going on in this thread, I had to check to make sure I hadn't logged into iMore by mistake!

    Posted via CB10
    Sairos, FahedAlDerbi and ck2nb like this.
    09-15-16 10:33 AM
  17. Sairos's Avatar
    With the amount of "Apple love" going on in this thread, I had to check to make sure I hadn't logged into iMore by mistake!

    Posted via CB10
    Welcome to the new CrackBerry, where you can see more love for non-BB android phones as well as iOS.
    TCB on Z10 likes this.
    09-15-16 10:56 AM
  18. bobshine's Avatar
    Welcome to the new CrackBerry, where you can see more love for non-BB android phones as well as iOS.
    Well unfortunately there isn't much to talk about on BB nowadays!
    TgeekB likes this.
    09-15-16 11:30 AM
  19. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    So when I'm watching a movie on my Droid and I hear sound move from left to right... I'm just imagining it?

    I get what you are trying to say... and understand that for the best stereo effect distance is needed. But that doesn't change that "stereo" speakers on a smartphone can improve the experience over a single speaker.

    And I will say that some smartphones have pretty good speakers if you are close to the phone. But I think most people the listen to music on a regular basis.... are using something other than the built-in speakers.

    Me, it's usually either my Truck via Bluetooth, or my home system via Bluetooth. Or when I need to listen without bothering my wife, if use a pair of Bluetooth headphone. For me the earphone jack just isn't used much.
    I agree with everything you say. Your brain will absolutely process the left and right channels according to any differences between what your left and right ears hear. But if the goal of listening to stereo is to hear the music as it was recorded, which is the whole point of high fidelity stereo reproduction, then you're not really listening in stereo in the way that musicians and producers intend.

    There is no wrong way to enjoy music, but most music fans wish to hear it in the way that the musicians and producers intended.

    Posted via CB10
    09-15-16 11:38 AM
  20. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    With the amount of "Apple love" going on in this thread, I had to check to make sure I hadn't logged into iMore by mistake!

    Posted via CB10
    It's not "Apple love". It's a discussion about the merits of BT vs Wired, and whether the lack of a headphone jack is good, bad, or indifferent. The recent design decision made by Apple with their latest smartphone was simply the catalyst that sparked the conversation, and is just a coincidence. Not really seeing any "Praise Apple" arguments in the discussion.
    TgeekB likes this.
    09-15-16 11:38 AM
  21. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I agree with everything you say. Your brain will absolutely process the left and right channels according to any differences between what your left and right ears hear. But if the goal of listening to stereo is to hear the music as it was recorded, which is the whole point of high fidelity stereo reproduction, then you're not really listening in stereo in the way that musicians and producers intend.

    There is no wrong way to enjoy music, but most music fans wish to hear it in the way that the musicians and producers intended.

    Posted via CB10

    Glad you have changed your "tune" musically speaking.... as you had said "doesn't mean you can hear it in stereo,"

    So anyway we agree now that a smartphones can have stereo speakers, and we agree that for the most part... no matter the brand, those speakers are rather limited. So we are back to the point of how do you get the music out of the phone. Apple has changed from the 1960's analog jack to a modern digital connection point and is allowing music fans to provide their own DAC to fit their budget to reproduce that sound to analog and to the speakers of their choice. In effect giving true audiophiles much more freedom to enjoy the music to the very best quality they can afford.

    Now Bluetooth is also an option that many can also select and as DenverRalphy pointed out the limitation of older version of Bluetooth have been overcome by the improvements of Bluetooth V4.

    The only real issue is that many people today have wired headphones and that it will require the included connector to use them, and that it isn't as solid a connection. I agree that's a negative... for today. In two years everyone will have bought new stuff (Very good for BEATS business model).

    Now there is the issue of charging and listening.... for the few that do that. Yes a $400 adapter is expensive, but again that's just good accessory business planning. Bet the iPhone 8 has wireless charging so it will be a mute point next year.

    Maybe Apple did it just to increase headphone and accessories sales, or maybe they plan to go thinner than a 3.5mm headphone jack will allow in future hardware? Either way it doesn't seem to have hurt sales based on reports I'm hearing.
    09-15-16 12:07 PM
  22. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I agree it's a fantastic business model, getting people to buy and replace accessories.

    And there will be more accessories as a result, which will improve the listening experience.

    Back to my original point, however, if your top priority is to hear great music today, without having to stop to charge your phone or buy additional dongles, my 3-year old BB10 phone produces better sound with lossless files, and is more convenient to use, than the new iPhone 7.

    Of course there are many, many good reasons to upgrade to the new iPhone 7. It is sleek, water resistant, incredibly fast and has what appears to be a great camera implementation. But for now at least, listening to high quality audio isn't one of them.

    Also, adding wireless charging doesn't really solve the problem for frequent travelers who can't just park it un one location on their desk or bedside table.

    Posted via CB10
    09-15-16 12:26 PM
  23. Jose Casiano's Avatar
    Did you, like a lot of people, forget that the iPhone 7 comes with a pair of wired earphones? A quick perusal of Apple's website would've done you some good, I think.
    Is it adapter or is it with that lightning cable?

    Posted via CB10
    09-15-16 12:28 PM
  24. MikeX74's Avatar
    Is it adapter or is it with that lightning cable?

    Posted via CB10
    The 7 comes with a pair of Lightning earphones and an adapter for 3.5mm headphones/earphones.
    09-15-16 01:03 PM
  25. bobshine's Avatar
    I agree it's a fantastic business model, getting people to buy and replace accessories.

    And there will be more accessories as a result, which will improve the listening experience.

    Back to my original point, however, if your top priority is to hear great music today, without having to stop to charge your phone or buy additional dongles, my 3-year old BB10 phone produces better sound with lossless files, and is more convenient to use, than the new iPhone 7.

    Of course there are many, many good reasons to upgrade to the new iPhone 7. It is sleek, water resistant, incredibly fast and has what appears to be a great camera implementation. But for now at least, listening to high quality audio isn't one of them.

    Also, adding wireless charging doesn't really solve the problem for frequent travelers who can't just park it un one location on their desk or bedside table.

    Posted via CB10
    The thing that apple has lots of success with is that they don't try to please the 1%, but the 99%. Here are a few examples:

    They are not trying to please the 1% that needs government level security for their device. Touch ID and 6 digits password is good enough for the 99%

    They are not trying to please the 1% that need a SLR camera to do professional shots... just the 99% that needs a quick, simple point and shoot camera with insane picture quality.

    Nor the 1% that needs to listen to lossless music and charge at the same time... just the 99% that hates having a wire a wants thin sexy phones.

    That's probably what makes them so successful... even when tech journalist trash their decision to remove the jack, they sell out cause what people saw is: finally no more wires.

    I think, even hardcore audiophiles would have to get used to the fact that 3.5mm jacks are on life support. Everyone would have to adapt to the fact that lightning and USB C will be the future for audiophiles and Bluetooth for everyone else.
    09-15-16 01:22 PM
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